Canadian Immigration

[G Huxley]

"Yes, but how do you enforce that?"

We already have a lower birthrate than 2 children per family.

All that has to happen is that we don't allow immigration beyond spouses and the rare exception for excellence.

Also people beyond a certain number of children should be sterilized e.g. the mormon with 133 kids, but that's not actually necessary even, merely enforcing strict immigration as immigrants have much higher family sizes.

[PIK]

Make having children affordable again. That was a liberal plan from the start, make it unaffordable to have kids and bring in the immigrant/voter.

[square]

More than 300,000, with increases in refugees, family class, grandparents, at the expense of skilled immigrants.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/liberal-government-is-planning-to-bring-in-a-record-of-more-than-305000-new-permanent-residents-in-2016

Thanks for sharing this. That article was published March 8th; are there any figures as towards how many immigrants they have accepted so far this year?

[bush_cheney2004]

You post a superficial news column from the US saying bringing in immigrants will alleviate a purported labour shortage due to an aging population. But why not something specific to Canada?

Indeed, but if there is one thing I have learned in this forum, it is that the U.S./American data domain for many different subject areas is considered to be not only relevant to Canada, but far easier to obtain from online resources. Such U.S. references have been the Canadian "normal" for a very long time (e.g. CBC and other media), and just like immigration trends for Canada, will not be changing much anytime soon.

[dre]

They have been saying that about impending labor shortage for as long as I remember and yet we have hundreds of thousands unemployed and many more under-employed.

Actually we are at 6.9 percent. 6% is considered full employment because even if there's jobs for every single person you still have transient workers. People quit, get laid off, get fired, etc.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Actually we are at 6.9 percent. 6% is considered full employment because even if there's jobs for every single person you still have transient workers. People quit, get laid off, get fired, etc.

Figures aside the reality is it is very hard for university graduates or those with degrees and experience to find suitable jobs and as I also mentioned many people are also under-employed. I do agree it may be easier to find jobs which don't require education or skills.

[dre]

Figures aside the reality is it is very hard for university graduates or those with degrees and experience to find suitable jobs

If thats true there could be a number of reasons for that.

One of them is called "Qualification Inflation".

CIBC crunched the numbers in an August report and discovered that the historical advantage degree-holders have held over high school graduates is beginning to narrow, and that “on average, Canada is experiencing an excess supply of post-secondary graduates.”

There are more people with degrees than the economy requires, which drives the value of having a degree down. And again we are at almost full employment.

Canada has the highest percentage of post secondary graduates who live under the poverty line than any other developed nation.

The problem is a workforce needs the right mix of workers. But for every accountant, engineer, banker, and people that just shuffle paper around, a few people have to actually pick up a shovel and do some work. A bunch of tradesmen need to build what the engineer designed. A bunch of real business activity has to happen for each accountant to have work, etc etc.

This is probably why we are also seeing less males in University. The value of the degrees themselves is increasing. Gone are the times when a degree would guarantee an 70k -120K salary. In many cases you can make better money in the trades.

Edited August 23, 2016 by dre

[dre]

oops

Edited August 23, 2016 by dre

[CITIZEN_2015]

If thats true there could be a number of reasons for that.

One of them is called "Qualification Inflation".

There are more people with degrees than the economy requires, which drives the value of having a degree down. And again we are at almost full employment.

Canada has the highest percentage of post secondary graduates who live under the poverty line than any other developed nation.

Exactly. While we have more people with degrees that the economy requires we bring even more people with degrees into country as immigrants as I believe a large proportion have post secondary educaton. This make it even harder for citizens to find jobs.

[cybercoma]

This is probably why we are also seeing less males in University. The value of the degrees themselves is increasing. Gone are the times when a degree would guarantee an 70k -120K salary. In many cases you can make better money in the trades.

You're getting there. One of the reasons you see less men in universities is that they have more opportunities outside of university than women. Well-paying skilled labour jobs that don't require a university education are predominantly male. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, tooling jobs, truck drivers, mining, forestry, etc. are all dominated by men, can be well paid, and don't require a university degree. Jobs that are "traditionally" filled by women, such as "secretary" positions, are asking for university-level business courses as a basic requirement these days. The fact is men have more opportunity outside of university than women do and that's why more women get university degrees.

​The other issue is women's liberation. Having a university degree is seen as a path to well-paid employment and independence. Women are being raised by people who tell them that they need a university education so they don't have to depend on a husband to support them. Women realize now how dangerous it is to their security to be stay-at-home mothers dependent on a husband's income to support them. If their marriage ends, she can be left scrambling. With no work experience as she raises children, it becomes an arduous task to find a job. The solution is to become university educated because that's supposed to lead to the most independent life.

[dre]

You're getting there. One of the reasons you see less men in universities is that they have more opportunities outside of university than women. Well-paying skilled labour jobs that don't require a university education are predominantly male. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, tooling jobs, truck drivers, mining, forestry, etc. are all dominated by men, can be well paid, and don't require a university degree. Jobs that are "traditionally" filled by women, such as "secretary" positions, are asking for university-level business courses as a basic requirement these days. The fact is men have more opportunity outside of university than women do and that's why more women get university degrees.

​The other issue is women's liberation. Having a university degree is seen as a path to well-paid employment and independence. Women are being raised by people who tell them that they need a university education so they don't have to depend on a husband to support them. Women realize now how dangerous it is to their security to be stay-at-home mothers dependent on a husband's income to support them. If their marriage ends, she can be left scrambling. With no work experience as she raises children, it becomes an arduous task to find a job. The solution is to become university educated because that's supposed to lead to the most independent life.

Yup that makes sense. My post was meant to say "the value on degrees is decreasing" btw. Oopsy.

[dre]

So here's what we could do to improve the guest worker program. If a company needs a position filled they should have to post the job in Canada for a month. They can only qualify for a guest worker if they can prove they couldn't find a Canadian. And if they CAN prove that they can bring in a guest worker as long as that guest worker is paid the industry standard for that job. Not less.

[Bonam]

So here's what we could do to improve the guest worker program. If a company needs a position filled they should have to post the job in Canada for a month. They can only qualify for a guest worker if they can prove they couldn't find a Canadian. And if they CAN prove that they can bring in a guest worker as long as that guest worker is paid the industry standard for that job. Not less.

That's just copying the USA's rules.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's just copying the USA's rules.

Yup...the USA gets a lot of sponsored Canadians that way.

[taxme]

Does anyone have a guess how many immigrants Canada will let in this year?

There is way too many immigrants coming into Canada already. We cannot handle all the legal and illegal immigrants that are allowing in. It is costing the Canadian taxpayer's billions in extra housing, food, clothing and other expenses to keep the thousands of them alive and well until they can steal a job from one of the 2,000,000 million unemployed Canadians out there. Flooding this country with over 300,000 maybe more new immigrants is nuts. Maybe special interest immigration lawyers and groups and corporations like it but it is not good for the average Canadian taxpayer's who have to foot the bill for all of this massive immigration that is being forced on Canadians. Canada needs to close the border doors down for at least five years to settle the unemployment problem down. It is time for a moratorium on immigration. But with the liberals in power, they will not do anything about our out of whack immigration policy except to add more to the confusion. Wake up Canadians, what the hell is wrong with you.

[dre]

That's just copying the USA's rules.

So its a bad idea?

[Bonam]

So its a bad idea?

No. However, the documentation required to demonstrate all the criteria you mentioned is unduly burdensome for both the workers in question and the companies sponsoring them, and processing the applications routinely takes 1-3 years in the US. I don't know if Canada would necessarily do any better.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-003-x/2007001/figures/4129865-eng.htm

Added for reference.

[CITIZEN_2015]

There is way too many immigrants coming into Canada already. We cannot handle all the legal and illegal immigrants that are allowing in. It is costing the Canadian taxpayer's billions in extra housing, food, clothing and other expenses to keep the thousands of them alive and well until they can steal a job from one of the 2,000,000 million unemployed Canadians out there. Flooding this country with over 300,000 maybe more new immigrants is nuts. Maybe special interest immigration lawyers and groups and corporations like it but it is not good for the average Canadian taxpayer's who have to foot the bill for all of this massive immigration that is being forced on Canadians. Canada needs to close the border doors down for at least five years to settle the unemployment problem down. It is time for a moratorium on immigration. But with the liberals in power, they will not do anything about our out of whack immigration policy except to add more to the confusion. Wake up Canadians, what the hell is wrong with you.

False info/lies in above post.........

Although I have stated that I believe in less number of immigrants but there are some lies and errors in this post. First off you are generalizing all immigrants as those costing Canadians in extra housing, food and clothing or Canada spending your money to keep them alive!!!!!!. Though small portion may (mainly refugees for the first year or so) however this is totally wrong to generalize it to all immigrants most either skillful, or investors (who create jobs for Canadians) or family members who are sponsored and supported by their Canadian families. Closing down the border not only is baseless and unpractical but also is an extremist view and would not be supported by most citizens as they see how extreme and illogical the proposal is. And more importantly it will not solve the unemployment problem but likely worsen it as consumer growth would dampened as population may decline.

What you also ignore is that smart immigration is like an investment in the long term. Immigrants today are consumers and tax payers tomorrow. Once employed (or employ a Canadian) they become taxpayers which in turn would support Canadians and Canadian social programs. They also become consumers of goods and services sparking growth and jobs in Canada. I usually don't get personal but in this case I would. I use myself as an example. I for one NEVER ask Canadian taxpayers for housing, food or clothing since I was here as college student (who was self-supported) and based on my calculations so far I have paid about $400,000 in direct income tax since I started working after graduation. Based on same calculation may pay well over half a million until planned retirement in direct income tax alone. I have lost count of other forms of taxes I have paid or my contributions to pension plans. Altogether I estimate a total of well over a million dollars of various forms of tax contributions which I have made and will do with full pleasure to contribute to Canada and kind-hearted Canadians in my small way.. It is posts like yours though that cools me off portraying falsely all immigrants as beggars and bathroom cleaners and burden on Canada and Canadians..

Based on same calculation if even half of what we are admitting to Canada each year become contributing citizens like myself then each year this amounts to 150 billion dollars of lifelong contributions to Canada and Canadians for EACH year's population admissions. So wake up poster and your supporters what the hell is wrong with you and enough with lies about how immigrants are burden to Canadians and Canadian taxpayers and generalization.

Edited August 23, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Machjo]

I like the Libertarian Party policy. If you're financially self-sufficient, welcome to Canada and feel free to work.

The truth is that an unemployed illiterate Canadian will not become a physician just because we don't allow physicians into Canada.

Raise taxes on the rich to provide trades and professional education for the unemployed if you want, sure. But then let people in in the meantime to fill the positions that need to be filled (or they'll just move out to get the workers elsewhere and export to Canada from there), so we can build the tax base needed to train our unemployed.

Again, you can have 1,000,000 open positions and 100 unemployed Canadians, but if those unemployed Canadians just don't have the qualifications, they still won't get the job.

[cybercoma]

So here's what we could do to improve the guest worker program. If a company needs a position filled they should have to post the job in Canada for a month. They can only qualify for a guest worker if they can prove they couldn't find a Canadian. And if they CAN prove that they can bring in a guest worker as long as that guest worker is paid the industry standard for that job. Not less.

That won't matter. They're already supposed to "prove" that they can't find Canadians to fill the job. You know what they do? They make garbage up.

[Machjo]

That won't matter. They're already supposed to "prove" that they can't find Canadians to fill the job. You know what they do? They make garbage up.

We can learn from the EU model. Free movement of people. Let the market figure it out.

But we're all for free markets until skin colour and accents come into play it seems.

[CITIZEN_2015]

We can learn from the EU model. Free movement of people. Let the market figure it out.

But we're all for free markets until skin colour and accents come into play it seems.

It is not skin color and accent I worry about but rather being swamped by people with certain unacceptable beliefs/cultures which do not stand up to the culture Canada is built upon. That is respect for human and women's rights, believing in equality, tolerance, respect, care, peaceful co-existence. So we must become more selective on who is admitted in. We don't wish to see civil disturbances that we are now witnessing in Europe as a result of them not being selective and their decades long liberal admission policies. I am not encouraging selection based on regions but selection based on personal beliefs.

Edited August 24, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[cybercoma]

Don't worry. Between 2003-2014 Canada let in 220,000 to 260,000 immigrants per year. With a population of 35,000,000 that's less than 1%. Meanwhile 377,000 to 389,000 babies are born here each year.

You'll survive.

[taxme]

False info/lies in above post.........

Although I have stated that I believe in less number of immigrants but there are some lies and errors in this post. First off you are generalizing all immigrants as those costing Canadians in extra housing, food and clothing or Canada spending your money to keep them alive!!!!!!. Though small portion may (mainly refugees for the first year or so) however this is totally wrong to generalize it to all immigrants most either skillful, or investors (who create jobs for Canadians) or family members who are sponsored and supported by their Canadian families. Closing down the border not only is baseless and unpractical but also is an extremist view and would not be supported by most citizens as they see how extreme and illogical the proposal is. And more importantly it will not solve the unemployment problem but likely worsen it as consumer growth would dampened as population may decline.

What you also ignore is that smart immigration is like an investment in the long term. Immigrants today are consumers and tax payers tomorrow. Once employed (or employ a Canadian) they become taxpayers which in turn would support Canadians and Canadian social programs. They also become consumers of goods and services sparking growth and jobs in Canada. I usually don't get personal but in this case I would. I use myself as an example. I for one NEVER ask Canadian taxpayers for housing, food or clothing since I was here as college student (who was self-supported) and based on my calculations so far I have paid about $400,000 in direct income tax since I started working after graduation. Based on same calculation may pay well over half a million until planned retirement in direct income tax alone. I have lost count of other forms of taxes I have paid or my contributions to pension plans. Altogether I estimate a total of well over a million dollars of various forms of tax contributions which I have made and will do with full pleasure to contribute to Canada and kind-hearted Canadians in my small way.. It is posts like yours though that cools me off portraying falsely all immigrants as beggars and bathroom cleaners and burden on Canada and Canadians..

Based on same calculation if even half of what we are admitting to Canada each year become contributing citizens like myself then each year this amounts to 150 billion dollars of lifelong contributions to Canada and Canadians for EACH year's population admissions. So wake up poster and your supporters what the hell is wrong with you and enough with lies about how immigrants are burden to Canadians and Canadian taxpayers and generalization.

So, with all of those new immigrants coming with all their trade skills and investments to Canada why then has the unemployment rate virtually not changed at all for decades? Are those new skilled immigrants starting up a new business where they are hiring hundreds or thousands of Canadians or are they just starting up a small business and only hiring people from their own culture and race? Thanks to massive immigration I have to wait to see a doctor or specialist because there are just too many people around for doctors and specialists to see right away. I have to wait in a long line to get a new passport. I went into a T&T Asian grocery store here in Vancouver, and all I see are Asians working there. How is that helping the Canadian unemployment problem? It doesn't. But it does help the new immigrants to find jobs. In my opinion, more immigration creates more problems than does any good for the country and does nothing for the host Canadians who end up footing the bill for most of them for long periods of time, and sometimes forever. No new immigrants should be allowed into Canada unless they have a job or are going to create a job for a Canadian. There are thousands of refugees who are on government(taxpayer)assistance and many have been on the dole for decades. This is theft and a waste of taxpayer's tax dollars.

I am awake alright. Awake to the foolishness that millions of new immigrants and refugees is great for Canada and Canadians. That is a propaganda and bull crap story spread by the politicians,the lame duck media and people who make money from more immigration. that people like you eat up.