Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I just got challenged on a French Québec forum and need your help. I proposed that instead of a sovereignty referendum, Québec should have a referendum on official unilingualism in the Constitution and federal administration. For example, it could propose that the English provisions of the Constitution and federal government administration, packaging and labelling, etc. would not apply to Québec. I'd pointed out that one advantage would be money saved for the taxpayer. Another would be that Federal employment in Quebec could be more accessible to those who don't know English and so make it more accessible to indigenous and allophone Quebecers too. Another would be that Québec would no longer be obligated to provide English language education. It would probably still do that but could limit it more to where numbers warrant it for example without any Constitutional obligation to do so. Another would be that Quebecers could import products from other countries with or without English labelling and so expand consumer choice. One forum member said he liked the idea but that English Canada would never agree to it. I explained that English Canadians are just as tired of having French imposed on them as Quebecers are of having English imposed on them. I'd given the example of an entrepreneur in BC who'd run into the problem of importing US products with no French labelling. He eventually had to quit importing it because it wasn't worth the expense of French translation in BC. He was still unconvinced, believing that English Canadians would gladly impose French on themselves if that is what it took to impose English on Quebec. He seems to believe English Canadians are that massochistic. I disagree. So, who's right? Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC? I'll post this thread in the other forum too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Thanks. Keep the comments coming folks. I did link this thread to a French forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 You realize there is still a sizeable English population in Quebec that you are disenfranchising. Perhaps if you live in Saskatchewan you don't give a darn if Quebec in unilingual French because it has zero bearing on you, but what if you were English living in Quebec? Maybe we should have a French unilingual law for Saskatchewan, fewer people would be disenfranchised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 If you're going to go this route, why not use a threshold of the population to determine services? For instance, if 20% speak the other language, then services must be rendered in both languages. (that threshold was arbitrary) This way a minority that is significant isn't disenfranchised and where the other language is at a low level, money isn't wasted on unnecessary translation, etc. My preference would be a truly bilingual country where all students are taught English AND French everywhere in the country so that they are all fluent in both languages. Many European countries teach multiple languages in school and their populations are fluent in multiple languages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'm mother-tongue bilingual, presently live in Quebec but will soon move to Toronto. I figure it's up to me to learn a second language. No one has a God-given right to be unilingual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) If you're going to go this route, why not use a threshold of the population to determine services? For instance, if 20% speak the other language, then services must be rendered in both languages. (that threshold was arbitrary) This way a minority that is significant isn't disenfranchised and where the other language is at a low level, money isn't wasted on unnecessary translation, etc. My preference would be a truly bilingual country where all students are taught English AND French everywhere in the country so that they are all fluent in both languages. Many European countries teach multiple languages in school and their populations are fluent in multiple languages. Not only services. What about packaging and labeling on imports.Also, in the modern world, is closed&circuit bilingualism a wise policy? If all English learn French and all French English, that allows to communicate with about 17% if the world's population max! What about the rest of the world? Edited August 19, 2016 by Machjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) Most European countries follow not a closed-circuit bilingual policy but rather a radiating one. In Hungary for example, everyone learns Hungarian and a second language, but not necessarily English. Over 20 languages to choose from. Edited August 19, 2016 by Machjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 You realize there is still a sizeable English population in Quebec that you are disenfranchising. Perhaps if you live in Saskatchewan you don't give a darn if Quebec in unilingual French because it has zero bearing on you, but what if you were English living in Quebec? Maybe we should have a French unilingual law for Saskatchewan, fewer people would be disenfranchised.I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they? Nope, just not imposed. Same with French elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 And thanks again.Keep 'em coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they? The suggestion is to remove the right of individuals to get service in their own language. No that is not banning but it is disenfranchising a huge population. The native English population of Montreal is larger than the native English population in all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto & Calgary. Rights are great if they are yours, but if the right is for anyone else then suddenly it is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 The suggestion is to remove the right of individuals to get service in their own language. No that is not banning but it is disenfranchising a huge population. The native English population of Montreal is larger than the native English population in all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto & Calgary. Rights are great if they are yours, but if the right is for anyone else then suddenly it is irrelevant. Why can't they learn a second language? That's what I did. Four actually. Maybe we could drop many of the private sector requirements of Bill 101 in exchange. Also, it might allow more sign-language services for example. My view is official unilingualism, personal bilingualism. The ROC has it backwards. Québec has the right idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Definitely a good idea, and one that I would support wholeheartedly. French is a dying language in Canada, so it should be treated as such - with respect, and official in the jurisdiction that contains the most French speakers, but no need to treat it like it's equal with English, because it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Definitely a good idea, and one that I would support wholeheartedly. French is a dying language in Canada, so it should be treated as such - with respect, and official in the jurisdiction that contains the most French speakers, but no need to treat it like it's equal with English, because it isn't. Itwouldn't equal with English. It would be the only official language of the Constitution in Québec (except on reserves I suppose) and enjoy no official status at all in the ROC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 What language are you making New Brunswick? 32% of the population is francophone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Itwouldn't equal with English. It would be the only official language of the Constitution in Québec (except on reserves I suppose) and enjoy no official status at all in the ROC. I know, and that's why I support your idea. I'm saying that it isn't fair for it to be equal as things stand currently. And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 What language are you making New Brunswick? 32% of the population is francophone. Anglophone I guess. O split? To be honest, I would prefer a policy of official unilingualism not at the provincial but rather at the local level. This could make municipalities in Quebec English-speaking and many outside of Québec French speaking. However, since I was debating a Québec sovereignist, I figured he might not go for that. That said, we had discussed shifting borders along linguistic lines. While some municipalities of Québec might go to Ontario, Quebec would gain Labrador abd South Eastern Ontario! Though we both supported the idea in principle, we both thought that would be pushing it with the English. I guess that could be my next thread. I'm a federalist, he a sivereignist, but we are both in favour of official unilingualism which definitely made the conversation interesting. But yes, I would be open to redrawing provincial boundaries. You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I know, and that's why I support your idea. I'm saying that it isn't fair for it to be equal as things stand currently. And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though. Redrawing borders? We'd talked about that, but since that would expand Quebec's land mass, I'm not sure. Then again, some English speakers might say good riddance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Is it really a possibility to lose out on a lucrative career in Canada if you can't speak French which is mostly useless anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though. New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in the country. But this thread proposes changing that part of the Constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I think I know what you meant now. Federal law is officially bilingual and applies Canada-wide, same with the Constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.