Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

[Machjo]

I just got challenged on a French Québec forum and need your help.

I proposed that instead of a sovereignty referendum, Québec should have a referendum on official unilingualism in the Constitution and federal administration.

For example, it could propose that the English provisions of the Constitution and federal government administration, packaging and labelling, etc. would not apply to Québec.

I'd pointed out that one advantage would be money saved for the taxpayer. Another would be that Federal employment in Quebec could be more accessible to those who don't know English and so make it more accessible to indigenous and allophone Quebecers too.

Another would be that Québec would no longer be obligated to provide English language education. It would probably still do that but could limit it more to where numbers warrant it for example without any Constitutional obligation to do so.

Another would be that Quebecers could import products from other countries with or without English labelling and so expand consumer choice.

One forum member said he liked the idea but that English Canada would never agree to it.

I explained that English Canadians are just as tired of having French imposed on them as Quebecers are of having English imposed on them.

I'd given the example of an entrepreneur in BC who'd run into the problem of importing US products with no French labelling. He eventually had to quit importing it because it wasn't worth the expense of French translation in BC.

He was still unconvinced, believing that English Canadians would gladly impose French on themselves if that is what it took to impose English on Quebec.

He seems to believe English Canadians are that massochistic. I disagree.

So, who's right? Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC?

I'll post this thread in the other forum too.

[eyeball]

Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Bryan]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Me too.

[Machjo]

Thanks.

Keep the comments coming folks. I did link this thread to a French forum.

[?Impact]

You realize there is still a sizeable English population in Quebec that you are disenfranchising. Perhaps if you live in Saskatchewan you don't give a darn if Quebec in unilingual French because it has zero bearing on you, but what if you were English living in Quebec? Maybe we should have a French unilingual law for Saskatchewan, fewer people would be disenfranchised.

[The_Squid]

If you're going to go this route, why not use a threshold of the population to determine services? For instance, if 20% speak the other language, then services must be rendered in both languages. (that threshold was arbitrary) This way a minority that is significant isn't disenfranchised and where the other language is at a low level, money isn't wasted on unnecessary translation, etc.

My preference would be a truly bilingual country where all students are taught English AND French everywhere in the country so that they are all fluent in both languages. Many European countries teach multiple languages in school and their populations are fluent in multiple languages.

[Machjo]

I'm mother-tongue bilingual, presently live in Quebec but will soon move to Toronto.

I figure it's up to me to learn a second language. No one has a God-given right to be unilingual.

[Machjo]

If you're going to go this route, why not use a threshold of the population to determine services? For instance, if 20% speak the other language, then services must be rendered in both languages. (that threshold was arbitrary) This way a minority that is significant isn't disenfranchised and where the other language is at a low level, money isn't wasted on unnecessary translation, etc.

My preference would be a truly bilingual country where all students are taught English AND French everywhere in the country so that they are all fluent in both languages. Many European countries teach multiple languages in school and their populations are fluent in multiple languages.

Not only services. What about packaging and labeling on imports.

Also, in the modern world, is closed&circuit bilingualism a wise policy? If all English learn French and all French English, that allows to communicate with about 17% if the world's population max! What about the rest of the world?

Edited August 19, 2016 by Machjo

[Machjo]

Most European countries follow not a closed-circuit bilingual policy but rather a radiating one. In Hungary for example, everyone learns Hungarian and a second language, but not necessarily English. Over 20 languages to choose from.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Machjo

[eyeball]

You realize there is still a sizeable English population in Quebec that you are disenfranchising. Perhaps if you live in Saskatchewan you don't give a darn if Quebec in unilingual French because it has zero bearing on you, but what if you were English living in Quebec? Maybe we should have a French unilingual law for Saskatchewan, fewer people would be disenfranchised.

I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they?

[Machjo]

I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they?

Nope, just not imposed. Same with French elsewhere.

[Machjo]

And thanks again.Keep 'em coming.

[?Impact]

I don't think anyone is suggesting English be banned are they?

The suggestion is to remove the right of individuals to get service in their own language. No that is not banning but it is disenfranchising a huge population. The native English population of Montreal is larger than the native English population in all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto & Calgary. Rights are great if they are yours, but if the right is for anyone else then suddenly it is irrelevant.

[Machjo]

The suggestion is to remove the right of individuals to get service in their own language. No that is not banning but it is disenfranchising a huge population. The native English population of Montreal is larger than the native English population in all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto & Calgary. Rights are great if they are yours, but if the right is for anyone else then suddenly it is irrelevant.

Why can't they learn a second language? That's what I did. Four actually.

Maybe we could drop many of the private sector requirements of Bill 101 in exchange.

Also, it might allow more sign-language services for example.

My view is official unilingualism, personal bilingualism.

The ROC has it backwards. Québec has the right idea

[Vega]

Definitely a good idea, and one that I would support wholeheartedly. French is a dying language in Canada, so it should be treated as such - with respect, and official in the jurisdiction that contains the most French speakers, but no need to treat it like it's equal with English, because it isn't.

[Machjo]

Definitely a good idea, and one that I would support wholeheartedly. French is a dying language in Canada, so it should be treated as such - with respect, and official in the jurisdiction that contains the most French speakers, but no need to treat it like it's equal with English, because it isn't.

Itwouldn't equal with English. It would be the only official language of the Constitution in Québec (except on reserves I suppose) and enjoy no official status at all in the ROC.

[cybercoma]

What language are you making New Brunswick? 32% of the population is francophone.

[Vega]

Itwouldn't equal with English. It would be the only official language of the Constitution in Québec (except on reserves I suppose) and enjoy no official status at all in the ROC.

I know, and that's why I support your idea. I'm saying that it isn't fair for it to be equal as things stand currently.

And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though.

[Machjo]

What language are you making New Brunswick? 32% of the population is francophone.

Anglophone I guess.

O split?

To be honest, I would prefer a policy of official unilingualism not at the provincial but rather at the local level. This could make municipalities in Quebec English-speaking and many outside of Québec French speaking.

However, since I was debating a Québec sovereignist, I figured he might not go for that.

That said, we had discussed shifting borders along linguistic lines. While some municipalities of Québec might go to Ontario, Quebec would gain Labrador abd South Eastern Ontario! Though we both supported the idea in principle, we both thought that would be pushing it with the English. I guess that could be my next thread.

I'm a federalist, he a sivereignist, but we are both in favour of official unilingualism which definitely made the conversation interesting.

But yes, I would be open to redrawing provincial boundaries. You?

[Machjo]

I know, and that's why I support your idea. I'm saying that it isn't fair for it to be equal as things stand currently.

And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though.

Redrawing borders? We'd talked about that, but since that would expand Quebec's land mass, I'm not sure.

Then again, some English speakers might say good riddance?

[-TSS-]

Is it really a possibility to lose out on a lucrative career in Canada if you can't speak French which is mostly useless anyway?

[Moonlight Graham]

And New Brunswick would be English, as the Francophone population there has been declining and it isn't close to a majority. Perhaps something special could perhaps be worked out for them, though.

New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in the country.

[Machjo]

New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in the country.

But this thread proposes changing that part of the Constitution.

[Machjo]

I think I know what you meant now. Federal law is officially bilingual and applies Canada-wide, same with the Constitution.

[Moonlight Graham]

I want to know how many french-speakers in Canada can speak french but not english.