Progressives and Islam

[overthere]

No I want the conservative hardliners that are pining for violence on both sides to fight to the death swords and axes in a big stadium.

Ah, the relentless pigeonholing....

FRance is an example(there are others) of a country that is generally far, far left of Canada. Yet they are , overall, far less tolerant of brown people (immigrants or locals) than Canada.

How would you reconcile that reality? Are they 'progressive' bigots and hardliners?

[Argus]

I'm not talking about constructive criticism. I'm talking about the people supporting real acts of violence. Its fine to speak out against things you don't like, but when you support massive acts of violence like 911, or massive bombings and invasions that's a problem for all of us.

Yes, well, you keep talking about how you want the hard-liners to kill each other and it seems fairly implicit you consider me to be a hardliner.

[?Impact]

Well, it's your straw man. I don't think anyone here has called for wholesale condemnation of Muslims in Canada, but a recognition of the more barbaric and backward social values many Muslims have, and for progressives to stop shielding, defending and enabling this behaviour.

I agree, honour killing should be condemned. The problem is that dictating what someone should/should not wear also needs to be condemned, and when people call for banning a hijab, they need to be strongly condemned.

[Argus]

I agree, honour killing should be condemned. The problem is that dictating what someone should/should not wear also needs to be condemned, and when people call for banning a hijab, they need to be strongly condemned.

As I said, progressives need to stop being so desperately defensive about the more brutal and barbaric parts of Islam.

Or at least come out and openly admit they do support execution of gays, and the segregation of women and laws to enforce moral behaviour on them.

[?Impact]

As I said, progressives need to stop being so desperately defensive about the more brutal and barbaric parts of Islam.

Or at least come out and openly admit they do support execution of gays, and the segregation of women and laws to enforce moral behaviour on them.

I (nor any progressive I am aware of) is defensive about the brutality and barbaric practices of anybody, be they Muslim or not.

I (and all progressives I am aware of) do not support execution of gays.

Segregation is part of all society, it is where and how that segregation is applied that differentiates it. If you want to be against all segregation, then speak up against it all.

Enforcing 'moral' behaviour is also part of all society. I am against telling a woman she must wear a burka, hijab, etc, just like I am against telling a woman that she cannot wear a burka, hijab, etc. We have all sorts of laws against nudity in the beach, park, etc; those are equal examples of trying to enforce 'morality'. If someone chooses to be part of a mosque that says they dress a certain way, then that is their choice. Telling them they must be part of that mosque is what I condemn. Telling someone they cannot nude sunbathe is a far worse transgression than telling someone they cannot choose to obey some rules they want in order to be part of clique. I don't go into a Mason lodge and tell them how to run their internal ceremonies.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ?Impact

[dialamah]

Telling someone they cannot nude sunbathe is a far worse transgression than telling someone they cannot choose to obey some rules they want in order to be part of clique. I don't go into a Mason lodge and tell them how to run their internal ceremonies.

Masons don't allow women at all, except to special "family" events. It's a huge boys' club, complete with oaths and ceremonies. What fun!

Edited September 17, 2016 by dialamah

[eyeball]

As I said, progressives need to stop being so desperately defensive about the more brutal and barbaric parts of Islam.

Or at least come out and openly admit they do support execution of gays, and the segregation of women and laws to enforce moral behaviour on them.

I'm pretty sure progressives only support the execution of conservatives. I'd settle for their segregation though.

[drummindiver]

Masons don't allow women at all, except to special "family" events. It's a huge boys' club, complete with oaths and ceremonies. What fun!

Like a Mary Kay convention for women.

[dialamah]

Like a Mary Kay convention for women.

Not really like an MK convention. You might be thinking of the Order of the Eastern Star, which is Mason's sister organization. I don't know if they have the same kind of ritual and oath-taking that Masons do, but maybe.

[GostHacked]

As I said, progressives need to stop being so desperately defensive about the more brutal and barbaric parts of Islam.

No one is doing that. Not one member on this board supports the barbaric parts of Islam.

Edited September 18, 2016 by GostHacked

[Argus]

I (nor any progressive I am aware of) is defensive about the brutality and barbaric practices of anybody, be they Muslim or not.

You most certainly are. You and other progressives rush to defend every disgusting and backward type of social behaviour you are allegedly against, time and time again.

There is nothing which can be described about medieval Muslim social policies as required in the Koran and practiced in a variety of Muslim countries progressives will not defend.

Because when you get right down to it, progressives find even that behaviour, and the fiercely fundamentalist religion which inspires it, far and away preferable to Western conservatives.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

No one is doing that. Not one member on this board supports the barbaric parts of Islam.

You certainly spend an enormous amount of time defending it from attack by those who do.

And you yourself, like other progressives, have NEVER criticized any aspect of Islamic law or the social values derived from it.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

Masons don't allow women at all, except to special "family" events. It's a huge boys' club, complete with oaths and ceremonies. What fun!

Do they require their women to wrap themselves in cloth so they don't cause lust in men, and require them to never socialize with men?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Argus

[eyeball]

Would someone ask Argus to show us some examples of what he's babbling about?

[eyeball]

Also tell him that Islamic laws actually do suck baby barf.

Thx.

[Guest]

Also tell him that Islamic laws actually do suck baby barf.

Thx.

What about Muslims who think they are a good idea?

[eyeball]

I'd suggest they give their heads a shake.

[Guest]

Do they require their women to wrap themselves in cloth so they don't cause lust in men, and require them to never socialize with men?

Do Catholics allow women to be priests? Do Lutherans and other evangelical sects teach women to be subservient to their husbands? Are there Christian theocracies that execute gays? Are there violent Christian militant groups killing people in Africa?

Misogyny is misogyny, homophobia is homophobia, violence is violence, extremism is extreme regardless of the source or skin colour. Why do these problems only bother you when there is an Islamic connection?

[dre]

Yes, well, you keep talking about how you want the hard-liners to kill each other and it seems fairly implicit you consider me to be a hardliner.

You know who you are and what you are.

[dre]

Ah, the relentless pigeonholing....

FRance is an example(there are others) of a country that is generally far, far left of Canada. Yet they are , overall, far less tolerant of brown people (immigrants or locals) than Canada.

How would you reconcile that reality? Are they 'progressive' bigots and hardliners?

Its just more conservative on conservative crime.

[Argus]

Do Catholics allow women to be priests? Do Lutherans and other evangelical sects teach women to be subservient to their husbands? Are there Christian theocracies that execute gays? Are there violent Christian militant groups killing people in Africa?

Misogyny is misogyny, homophobia is homophobia, violence is violence, extremism is extreme regardless of the source or skin colour. Why do these problems only bother you when there is an Islamic connection?

Ah yes, the great progressive sense of cultural relativism.

Misogyny of forcing women to hide themselves under cloth, obey men and be segregated from men is THE SAME as western culture which objectifies women!

Homophobia which demands the extermination of gays is THE SAME as homophobia which says gays shouldn't marry.

Violence, as in beheading innocent people for being of the wrong religion is THE SAME as westerners who sometimes snatch hijabs off womens heads.

So of course, under this goofy cultural relativism, the Muslim demand that women and men be segregated in all things throughout their lives is balanced by their not being female Catholic priests.

You know who you are and what you are.

And I know what you are.

[BC_chick]

Ah, the relentless pigeonholing....

FRance is an example(there are others) of a country that is generally far, far left of Canada. Yet they are , overall, far less tolerant of brown people (immigrants or locals) than Canada.

How would you reconcile that reality? Are they 'progressive' bigots and hardliners?

Progressive fiscal policy and xenophobia are not reciprocal, if that's what you're asking. France may be progressive in its fiscal policies, but like the rest of Europe, they are strongly nationalistic as a result of centuries of European wars.

Progressives in North America aren't as xenophobic as their European counterparts probably because the little of history on the continent has typically been one of mixed cultures.

[Argus]

Progressives in North America aren't as xenophobic as their European counterparts probably because the little of history on the continent has typically been one of mixed cultures.

Plus it's hard to be xenophobic when you don't believe in your country anyway, have no respect for its traditions or history, and think of it as little more than an international hotel.

What did Trudeau call us, a "post national state"?

[BC_chick]

Plus it's hard to be xenophobic when you don't believe in your country anyway, have no respect for its traditions or history, and think of it as little more than an international hotel.

What did Trudeau call us, a "post national state"?

Hogwash, I'm not the biggest Trudeau fan but from what I see he's a lot more proud of this country than you are.

[Argus]

Hogwash, I'm not the biggest Trudeau fan but from what I see he's a lot more proud of this country than you are.

Trudeau, who said that he'd leave Canada and go with Quebec if it ever separated? That Trudeau?

The fact is progressives have never taken any pride in Canada except in relation to welcoming foreigners among us. Progressives despise our history and tradition and everything which made this country what it is EXCEPT for embracing foreigners and minorities.

Taking pride in Canada, after all, would suggest that in some way it's better than other countries, and a progressive would rather cut cut up his or her Costco card than admit Canada and its culture and values are better than anyone else.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Argus