Progressives and Islam

[WestCoastRunner]

Really? How so? In the West, Islamic extremism seems to be highest in the lands of kindly, accepting progressives, and lowest, in the lands of stern melting pot advocates like in North America

Cite?

[Guest]

If over 90% of a society agree with a pollster that blasphemers and apostates should be executed, who is this 'the rest'?

.

Around 10%, I would say.

[Guest]

You realize that just saying that will likely lead you to arrest in the Muslim world, and likely get you physically attacked by whatever Muslim you say it to?

Of course I do. That's why I have such loathing, disgust and contempt for some Muslims.

[Guest]

Strong accusation. Where did I say I hate anybody? Or do you just throw around personal attacks when you have nothing left?

Often personal attacks are the only response to criticism of Islam. It's all there is.

[Guest]

Isn't the real issue in this thread however progressives and the conservative dogma that states progressives think like theists when it comes to praising/defending/apologizing etc for Islam?

This dogma makes conservatism appear as stupid and inflexible as religion.

It's the same lip service to conservative group-think that's been rearing its stupid head for years in virtually every topic that's discussed on this and countless other forums.

It's true that I don't agree at all with the seemingly accepted definition of the word "progressive" on this site. No-one who fails to decry egregious religious practices wherever they occur could ever be referred to as progressive.

[WestCoastRunner]

You are speaking of religious people, as opposed to nationalities. I agree that strongly religious people will resist assimilation and preserve their religious values. That's why I'm opposed to bringing in so many Muslims given the retrograde cultural views of Islam practiced by Muslims.

You speak as though every Muslim practices and even understands their religion. They do not. Just as not all Christians follow the laws of Catholicism nor do Muslims follow theirs.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/3761/viewall/do-all-muslims-represent-islam/

[eyeball]

It's true that I don't agree at all with the seemingly accepted definition of the word "progressive" on this site. No-one who fails to decry egregious religious practices wherever they occur could ever be referred to as progressive.

I'm reminded of how terms like leftist and progressive have become epithets synonymous with shit and mass murderers. The trend really took off when people who hate progressives refused to decry the egregious geopolitical and military practices we used to start the war between us and Islam.

[Guest]

I'm reminded of how terms like leftist and progressive have become epithets synonymous with shit and mass murderers. The trend really took off when people who hate progressives refused to decry the egregious geopolitical and military practices we used to start the war between us and Islam.

I think you're being too hard on yourself. Leftists are not that bad, really. Just a little selectively blinkered, that's all. And as for progressives, being one myself, I think the synonym is a little harsh.

Do you think the egregious geopolitical and military practices we used to start the war between us and Islam somehow excuse the egregious religious practices I mentioned earlier?

[eyeball]

Do you think the egregious geopolitical and military practices we used to start the war between us and Islam somehow excuse the egregious religious practices I mentioned earlier?

I don't think the two relate in a meaningful enough way to warrant getting my nose out of joint over. That seems to be the pith of why conservatives get so out of whack over lefties when it comes to Islam. Of course I don't excuse them. Why would anyone even need to ask such a silly question? Sometimes I think conservatives are so deeply ashamed of how our side has behaved that they create and buy into fantastical notions like lefties are basically amongst equals when it comes to perpetrators of barbaric practices for example. How hard is it to buy when there are even Canadian prime ministers declaring that Canadian lefties are with the terrorists?

Its pretty easy to understand why barbarism would emerge under the barbaric conditions we had a huge hand in creating, imposing and maintaining against much of the Islamic world the last 60 years or so. What's less easy to understand is why conservatives have such an apparently difficult struggle with the difference between understanding something and excusing it. That said look at the weave and weft of excuses and understanding conservatives have fused together in their rosy view of how and why our side behaved the way it did.

Edited August 29, 2016 by eyeball

[Peter F]

Argus:

If over 90% of a society agree with a pollster that blasphemers and apostates should be executed, who is this 'the rest'?

The ease of being a Fanatic. All thats needed is checking a box on a poll....or, more probably, somebody else checked a box on a poll.

Governments need now to react to box checking; Policies need changing dammit

Edited August 29, 2016 by Peter F

[bush_cheney2004]

....Its pretty easy to understand why barbarism would emerge under the barbaric conditions we had a huge hand in creating, imposing and maintaining against much of the Islamic world the last 60 years or so. What's less easy to understand is why conservatives have such an apparently difficult struggle with the difference between understanding something and excusing it.

Maybe it has something to do with the "barbarism" practiced in liberal democracies by conservatives and progressives alike for the past 200 years, not just 60. Still waiting for the First Nations franchise of ISIL to force us to "understand".

[Guest]

I don't think the two relate in a meaningful enough way to warrant getting my nose out of joint over. That seems to be the pith of why conservatives get so out of whack over lefties when it comes to Islam. Of course I don't excuse them. Why would anyone even need to ask such a silly question? Sometimes I think conservatives are so deeply ashamed of how our side has behaved that they create and buy into fantastical notions like lefties are basically amongst equals when it comes to perpetrators of barbaric practices for example. How hard is it to buy when there are even Canadian prime ministers declaring that Canadian lefties are with the terrorists?

Its pretty easy to understand why barbarism would emerge under the barbaric conditions we had a huge hand in creating, imposing and maintaining against much of the Islamic world the last 60 years or so. What's less easy to understand is why conservatives have such an apparently difficult struggle with the difference between understanding something and excusing it. That said look at the weave and weft of excuses and understanding conservatives have fused together in their rosy view of how and why our side behaved the way it did.

I don't think the two relate in a meaningful enough way to warrant getting my nose out of joint over, either. It would be very cumbersome to make the point, "but the CIA aiding the Shah certainly didn't help" every time I complain that some liberal hacker got chopped up in Bangladesh.

[dre]

Do you think the egregious geopolitical and military practices we used to start the war between us and Islam somehow excuse the egregious religious practices I mentioned earlier?

They don't excuse extremism, but they helped to nurture it and and grow it. Religious conservative extremists have been trying to convince everyone over there that the west is their enemies... So when we cruise through and kill a few hundred thousand people it really helps strengthen their case and gives them a nice big rallying cry.

The global war on terror is literally the best thing in history that has happened for extremists in the middle east. They tricked us into trillions of dollars of misguided spending that actually created new breed of terrorists.

[dialamah]

I don't think the two relate in a meaningful enough way to warrant getting my nose out of joint over, either. It would be very cumbersome to make the point, "but the CIA aiding the Shah certainly didn't help" every time I complain that some liberal hacker got chopped up in Bangladesh.

Complaining without looking for reasons and solutions is a waste of time and energy, imo. Terrorists are indeed creating havoc and despair around the world; if we don't solve the question of 'why', we're never going to figure out how to solve the problem. The all-too-easy response of 'because of Islam' doesn't explain why we barely heard of Islam or Muslims prior to 9/11, and yet now we regularly hear of terror attacks. Islam and Muslims were certainly in existence prior to 9/11.

[dialamah]

What's less easy to understand is why conservatives have such an apparently difficult struggle with the difference between understanding something and excusing it.

This reminds me of an ex I had who admitted that if he understood why I disagreed with him, that meant he'd have to agree and then he'd have to change something about himself. I thought he could understand, still disagree and then we'd work out some kind of compromise.

[DogOnPorch]

Islam and Muslims were certainly in existence prior to 9/11.

So was Islamic terror.

Before the rise of the Young Turks, Islam was a daily pill swallowed by Europe's armies. Going right back to the 7th century. Islam took a little bit of a break in the 20th century compared to other centuries...but it's back in black.

[dialamah]

So was Islamic terror.

Before the rise of the Young Turks, Islam was a daily pill swallowed by Europe's armies. Going right back to the 7th century. Islam took a little bit of a break in the 20th century compared to other centuries...but it's back in black.

Yeah, I know you believe Islam is so much more warlike than any other group. I wondered once if maybe you had a point, so I looked back about 200 years. Turned out, every group I looked at was about the same in terms of military conflict they voluntarily engaged in. So you will no doubt continue to believe that Islam is particularly aggressive, but I know you are wrong.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, I know you believe Islam is so much more warlike than any other group. I wondered once if maybe you had a point, so I looked back about 200 years. Turned out, every group I looked at was about the same in terms of military conflict they voluntarily engaged in. So you will no doubt continue to believe that Islam is particularly aggressive, but I know you are wrong.

You're free to deny Islam's military history. Suits you.

[dialamah]

You're free to deny Islam's military history. Suits you.

Wow, you so lack reading comprehension! I didn't deny it; I said I researched it.

[DogOnPorch]

Wow, you so lack reading comprehension! I didn't deny it; I said I researched it.

And your conclusion is that Islam is no different than any other ideology.

[dialamah]

And your conclusion is that Islam is no different than any other ideology.

My conclusion is that humans like to fight.

[DogOnPorch]

My conclusion is that humans like to fight.

So, say...Jesus and Muhammad: same message....right?

[dialamah]

NM: non-substantive post.

Edited August 29, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

Wow, aren't you twisty?

No...just a lesson in critical thinking.

Aren't the messages the same?

[dialamah]

NM: Non-substantive post.

Edited August 29, 2016 by dialamah