Israel Saves Muslim Life and Muslim 14 Year Old Bride Burned Alive; R

[jbg]

These two stories contrast different value systems and different cultures. Maybe they're both equally valid. I just don't know. In the first story, Facebook Friendship Saves an Afghan Babys Life a combination of Facebook friendships between an Afghan family whose baby son faced a life-threatening congenital heart problem and an Israeli helped the baby find life saving surgery in Israel (by way of Toronto). Noteworthy is the fear of "backlash" if the name of the family was publicized:

Yehia whose father spoke on the condition that the family name not be published for fear of a backlash if it became known he had taken the boy to Israel for treatment is the first Afghan treated by Save a Childs Heart in its 20 years of operations. About half the charitys 4,000 patients have been Palestinian; 200 others were children from Iraq and Syria, and the roster includes patients from Tanzania, Ethiopia and Moldova.

Elsewhere different cultural values play out, in more deadly fashion: Clash of Values Emerges After Afghan Child Bride Burns to Death

KABUL, Afghanistan As a young girl, Zahra became consumed with the idea of a life of learning, seizing on every new opportunity that trickled to her isolated town in the western Afghan province of Ghor.
In a school drama, she performed the role of Parisa, a young girl barred from attending school by her conservative family. When an educational circus traveled through about three years ago, she was one of the enthusiastic participants, selected as one of three students among 70 to take her new juggling act to Kabul.
But within the short span of her life, she was bartered away.

When her mother was paralyzed and her father decided to marry again, Zahra, then around 11 years old, became part of the dowry, according to her fathers accounts to reporters. Then, about two years later, as a sixth grader, she was married off.

Last week, Zahra arrived at the central hospital in Ghor with burns over 90 percent of her body. She died six days later, on Saturday, in a Kabul hospital. She was four months pregnant, and she was 14 years old, her father said.
The father, Muhammad Azam, said that her death was the culminating act of long abuse by her husbands family. He accused them of beating and stabbing her after she refused to work in the opium fields while pregnant, and he said they then set her on fire with gasoline to cover their crime.

Zahras husbands family insists that her death was by self-immolation, according to the police.
As investigators in Kabul and Ghor tried to piece the episode together, the conversation about her life and death once again brought to the fore the issue of child marriage and womens rights in Afghanistan.

I would love the liberals to explain how supporting womans' or GLBTQ rights goes with supporting Arab or Palestinian causes. I just don't understand.

.

Edited August 15, 2016 by jbg

[dialamah]

That story about the little girl being bartered, married and then killed is horrific, and makes me so angry and sad. It makes me equally angry and sad when I read about guys from Western/Christian culture who kidnap and imprison little girls for years, men fathering children with their daughters, about men and women who set up child sex rings, about people who kill their families and sometimes themselves, about those who go into public spaces and shoot dozens of people they don't know - link not needed, I'm sure. All of these acts, no matter who does them or from what culture they are, are horrific.

I am also angered and saddened by the civilians who are killed when Western allies bomb Syria, and about how many children have been killed in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I would like conservatives to explain exactly how Western culture is so much better than Arab culture, when we are still raping and killing women and children, both at home and abroad?

[eyeball]

At least liberals understand. Perhaps conservatives should just leave these ethically challenging issues to people who are less challenged.

Edited August 15, 2016 by eyeball

[Guest]

That story about the little girl being bartered, married and then killed is horrific, and makes me so angry and sad. It makes me equally angry and sad when I read about guys from Western/Christian culture who kidnap and imprison little girls for years, men fathering children with their daughters, about men and women who set up child sex rings, about people who kill their families and sometimes themselves, about those who go into public spaces and shoot dozens of people they don't know - link not needed, I'm sure. All of these acts, no matter who does them or from what culture they are, are horrific.

I am also angered and saddened by the civilians who are killed when Western allies bomb Syria, and about how many children have been killed in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I would like conservatives to explain exactly how Western culture is so much better than Arab culture, when we are still raping and killing women and children, both at home and abroad?

I think the difference is the family, and probably the neighbours.

Edited August 15, 2016 by bcsapper

[dialamah]

I think the difference is the family, and probably the neighbours.

I agree that in some countries, there is more social acceptance of some things that we find horrific. On the other hand, there are also many people in those countries who are equally horrified at those practices and who are working to eliminate the social acceptance as well as laws that ignore or even support those practices. We might think that we are morally superior because we have laws against such things but then it's also perfectly acceptable in our culture, to dress children in adult costumes, and feature them in sexually suggestive poses, whether for an ad campaign or a beauty pageant. It's like a wink and a nod to pedophilia, right under our noses and it permeates our culture.

In my opinion, people who torture, rape and murder children or women or men are backwards savages, regardless of the country they come from, or the beliefs they hold. But the people carrying out those acts do not define everyone else in their country or cultural group who abhor those same acts, whether they support Trump or Trudeau, Sisi or King Salman.

[Guest]

I agree that in some countries, there is more social acceptance of some things that we find horrific. On the other hand, there are also many people in those countries who are equally horrified at those practices and who are working to eliminate the social acceptance as well as laws that ignore or even support those practices. We might think that we are morally superior because we have laws against such things but then it's also perfectly acceptable in our culture, to dress children in adult costumes, and feature them in sexually suggestive poses, whether for an ad campaign or a beauty pageant. It's like a wink and a nod to pedophilia, right under our noses and it permeates our culture.

In my opinion, people who torture, rape and murder children or women or men are backwards savages, regardless of the country they come from, or the beliefs they hold. But the people carrying out those acts do not define everyone else in their country or cultural group who abhor those same acts, whether they support Trump or Trudeau, Sisi or King Salman.

Yep, no argument here.

[Rue]

That story about the little girl being bartered, married and then killed is horrific, and makes me so angry and sad. It makes me equally angry and sad when I read about guys from Western/Christian culture who kidnap and imprison little girls for years, men fathering children with their daughters, about men and women who set up child sex rings, about people who kill their families and sometimes themselves, about those who go into public spaces and shoot dozens of people they don't know - link not needed, I'm sure. All of these acts, no matter who does them or from what culture they are, are horrific.

I am also angered and saddened by the civilians who are killed when Western allies bomb Syria, and about how many children have been killed in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I would like conservatives to explain exactly how Western culture is so much better than Arab culture, when we are still raping and killing women and children, both at home and abroad?

You make an excellent point. I defer to it.

[Rue]

At least liberals understand. Perhaps conservatives should just leave these ethically challenging issues to people who are less challenged.

His point had nothing to do with Liberalism or Conservatism but the perils of ethnocentricity or looking down on people. Your words do exactly what he was warning against.

Your attempt to take his point and use it to create stereotype categories, then place yourself in one and call the other inferior is exactly what he critiqued.

You also clearly have no clue who Hobbes, Bentham, Burke, are or what they wrote.

Labeling people and then name calling them to suggest you are in a superior category to them shows exactly why you are on this forum-to pose-to pose as someone better than others. Your views are not special nor do they put you at some perceived level of moral superiority. In fact you make your comment as you usually do, to be belligerent and insult. You have nothing to offer but one line insults posing yourself as looking down upon the person you insult. From my vantage point I see a skunk lifting its back legs.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

These two stories contrast different value systems and different cultures. Maybe they're both equally valid. I just don't know. In the first story, Facebook Friendship Saves an Afghan Babys Life a combination of Facebook friendships between an Afghan family whose baby son faced a life-threatening congenital heart problem and an Israeli helped the baby find life saving surgery in Israel (by way of Toronto). Noteworthy is the fear of "backlash" if the name of the family was publicized:

Elsewhere different cultural values play out, in more deadly fashion: Clash of Values Emerges After Afghan Child Bride Burns to Death

I would love the liberals to explain how supporting womans' or GLBTQ rights goes with supporting Arab or Palestinian causes. I just don't understand.

.

There is no doubt there are differences in culture between Western and Eastern societies, Absolutely and they are coming head to head in what appears to be an eventual and inevitable war. I wish this was not the case. I am loath to suggest one society is worse than another for the points Dia made. No one society is better than another. On the other hand, those who come on this board putting down Jews as cancers for wanting a state were the target of your comment. You and I are sick of being insulted and called cancers because we believe we have the same state rights as any Muslim.

I understand that was your point that the people pissing on Jews for being Israeli do so suggesting we have no moral value. Certainly Muslim passages out and out state that.

That said, on another level, we can only hope Muslims progress as we Jews and Christians are trying to do, away from rigid material interpretations of doctrine to a level where we perceive or common values and focus on them.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Rue

[dialamah]

There is no doubt there are differences in culture between Western and Eastern societies, Absolutely and they are coming head to head in what appears to be an eventual and inevitable war.

I fear that kind of war as well. Even if Trump thinks bombing ISIS out of existence is feasible, I do not. I don't think violence is the way to fight ideology, but sadly there are too many people who do on both sides.

we can only hope Muslims progress as we Jews and Christians are trying to do, away from rigid material interpretations of doctrine to a level where we perceive or common values and focus on them.

It seems to me that the majority of people, regardless of their religion (or lack thereof) perceive common values and try to focus on them. It seems to be the fanatical minority that lead us to conflict and war. It's very sad, to me, because beneath the skin color, the locale in which we live, the beliefs we have, we all love, fear and yearn the same I think.

[Moonlight Graham]

Another narrative of "we're good, they're bad". 2 examples of circumstantial evidence proves nothing but your agenda. This is the kind of thinking that fuels the hatred and the conflict itself, from both sides.

Shame on you, jgb. You're better than this.

[betsy]

That story about the little girl being bartered, married and then killed is horrific, and makes me so angry and sad. It makes me equally angry and sad when I read about guys from Western/Christian culture who kidnap and imprison little girls for years, men fathering children with their daughters, about men and women who set up child sex rings, about people who kill their families and sometimes themselves, about those who go into public spaces and shoot dozens of people they don't know - link not needed, I'm sure. All of these acts, no matter who does them or from what culture they are, are horrific.

I am also angered and saddened by the civilians who are killed when Western allies bomb Syria, and about how many children have been killed in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

I would like conservatives to explain exactly how Western culture is so much better than Arab culture, when we are still raping and killing women and children, both at home and abroad?

Though I agree that it is upsetting to read about those heinous crimes that happen in our Western world, the two worlds

are not comparable.

Kidnapping, incest, pedophilia......are criminal acts. People who get caught doing those crimes are dealt with by the law.

However, honor-killing, brutality against women.....is just another part of the culture in countries that practice those.

As an example, a woman who commits adultery is dealt more harshly than her partner. She's most likely to be stoned to death. The latest high-profile example was the strangling of a model by her own brother. I think that was in Pakistan.

You can't eliminate murder, rape, pedophilia ...etc., All cultures have those. That's a fact.

BUT.......

Those are considered crimes in the western culture. They're not, in the Arab culture. That's the difference.

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

We might think that we are morally superior because we have laws against such things but then it's also perfectly acceptable in our culture, to dress children in adult costumes, and feature them in sexually suggestive poses, whether for an ad campaign or a beauty pageant. It's like a wink and a nod to pedophilia, right under our noses and it permeates our culture.

In my opinion, people who torture, rape and murder children or women or men are backwards savages, regardless of the country they come from, or the beliefs they hold. But the people carrying out those acts do not define everyone else in their country or cultural group who abhor those same acts, whether they support Trump or Trudeau, Sisi or King Salman.

I wouldn't go far to say our society is morally superior at all.

How can we claim a high moral ground, when we not only condone but had also legalized, the murder of our

unborn children?

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[dialamah]

I wouldn't go far to say our society is morally superior at all.

How can we claim a high moral ground, when we not only condone but had also legalized, the murder of our

unborn children?

Egypt agrees with you:

Al-Azhar mosque, Egypt's foremost religious authority, issued a fatwa in January that says that "it is impermissible for the mother to induce abortion if it is proven that the fetus is deformed or suffers from mental retardation . . . It is not a justifiable excuse."

The fatwa only adds to the already existing religious doctrine, supported by Egyptian law, that forbids abortion unless the mother's life is in imminent danger.

Although apparently this is not really an Islamic requirement:

medieval Muslim texts contain descriptions of female contraceptive methods and abortificants, suggesting that the practices were once widespread. In addition, there was popular acceptance of abortion in Egyptian society until it was outlawed by Muhammad Ali in the 1830s, reportedly to increase the male population available for his armies.

More babies for bigger armies. Hmmm .......

[eyeball]

I would love the liberals to explain how supporting womans' or GLBTQ rights goes with supporting Arab or Palestinian causes. I just don't understand.

.

It's really simple, conservatives are heartless, even to the point of being proud of their heartlessness compared to liberals.

[kactus]

Another narrative of "we're good, they're bad". 2 examples of circumstantial evidence proves nothing but your agenda. This is the kind of thinking that fuels the hatred and the conflict itself, from both sides.

Shame on you, jgb. You're better than this.

Agreed...Divisiveness is what is fueling the debate here and some commentaries are not meant to get to solution but just generalising one side of the argument.

[Rue]

Agreed...Divisiveness is what is fueling the debate here and some commentaries are not meant to get to solution but just generalising one side of the argument.

You would do well to heed the above advice and not just state it when you think its anti Muslim.

[Rue]

I fear that kind of war as well. Even if Trump thinks bombing ISIS out of existence is feasible, I do not. I don't think violence is the way to fight ideology, but sadly there are too many people who do on both sides.

It seems to me that the majority of people, regardless of their religion (or lack thereof) perceive common values and try to focus on them. It seems to be the fanatical minority that lead us to conflict and war. It's very sad, to me, because beneath the skin color, the locale in which we live, the beliefs we have, we all love, fear and yearn the same I think.

I again defer to the comments you make.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Rue

[betsy]

Egypt agrees with you:

Although apparently this is not really an Islamic requirement:

More babies for bigger armies. Hmmm .......

More babies for the future.

Edited August 16, 2016 by betsy

[Guest]

More babies for the future.

I was hoping the Zika virus might put a stop to such nonsense. Maybe the next one...

[Rue]

deleted

Edited August 16, 2016 by Rue

[jbg]

Another narrative of "we're good, they're bad". 2 examples of circumstantial evidence proves nothing but your agenda. This is the kind of thinking that fuels the hatred and the conflict itself, from both sides.

Shame on you, jgb. You're better than this.

Agreed...Divisiveness is what is fueling the debate here and some commentaries are not meant to get to solution but just generalising one side of the argument.

If those incidents didn't happen I agree with both of you. Did they happen?

[GostHacked]

You would do well to heed the above advice and not just state it when you think its anti Muslim.

Back at you except, replace anti-Muslim with anti-semite ....

[Rue]

Back at you except, replace anti-Muslim with anti-semite ....

My comments make it clear is specifically directed not at Muslims but at specifically fundamentalist and rigid interpretations of Islam.

Don't pull the Muslim card crap with me trying to suggest I smeer all Muslims like some on this forum do Jews.

[GostHacked]

My comments make it clear is specifically directed not at Muslims but at specifically fundamentalist and rigid interpretations of Islam.

Don't pull the Muslim card crap with me trying to suggest I smeer all Muslims like some on this forum do Jews.

Interesting, but at the same time you call people anti-semite for calling out specified contentions like the settlements. There is NO winning with you, so who cares what you post anymore as it tiresome repeated tripe. Every response is anti-semetic to you. Please get over it.

People here do not support terrorism, however there are those here to try to explain the WHY's but that somehow puts the thought in your mind that people do support terrorism and allows you to call them anto-semite. Again, get over it.