An alternative to Trump and Clinton?

[cybercoma]

Members of the party voted for him to represent them. Absolutely. 9% of the electorate chose who would represent the two major parties. Just think about that when you say that either of these candidates are candidates of "the people." 91% of the people did not support either one of them nor had anything to do with their nominations.

Trump, the man of the people, eating KFC with a knife and a fork. Good lord.

[TimG]

Absolutely. 9% of the electorate chose who would represent the two major parties.

And why should it be any other way? You can't force people to join parties so they can vote for the candidate. It goes without saying that party members are always going to be a subset of the total populace (unless you admire China's one party system).

Also, there are at least 4 alternatives on the ballot in most states. So people have choices if they choose to exercise them. The trouble is there can only be one winner which means whoever wins will also be supported by a minority of voters. Again the question is why do you expect things to be different?

And whether you want to acknowledge it or not: Trump would not have gotten to where he is without appealing to 'common man'. I fail to see why you think the concerns of people voting for Trump are any less worthy than those voting for someone like Sanders.

[Big Guy]

That is the point. Rank and file republicans voted for him. Trump would have gotten no where if the 'common man' did not show up at primaries and cast a ballot. You have a really twisted idea of democracy if you think that there is something inherently 'elitist' about the fact that members of a party vote for a leader.

Also, there can be only one leader so in a contest with >2 candidates the winner will have less than 50% of the popular vote. That is the way it has to work.

Looks like the Republicans are making sure they split their vote and guarantee that Trump loses:

A former CIA guy is running as a pseudo-Republican

McMullin

And some are trying to draft another:

Rice

Maybe Jeb Bush should also jump into the race?

[Guest]

Or Phil Robertson, the crazy man with a beard. I suppose he is as qualified as Trump to be president.

[Moonlight Graham]

Okay Tim. In Tim's fantasy world Trump is the every man candidate. He's the candidate of the people! Nevermind that less than half of Republicans voted for him.

The % of GOP members that voted for him is pretty substantial when you consider how many other GOP candidates were running. He got almost twice the votes and 3 times the delegates as the next guy. It was a plurality, this is the way democracy works when you have numerous candidates running.

9% of voters is pretty small, but not so much if keep in mind that only about 50% of Americans turn out for the general. So about 1/4 of people who actually vote came to vote for the primaries. It doesn't bother me as much when I remember also how many voters don't bother to know anything about the candidates beyond SNL impressions & the odd soundbite.

[Moonlight Graham]

And some are trying to draft another:

Rice

Amazing that some Americans would still want to vote in a neocon. Conservatives need to reject that failed ideology like most lefties rejected Marxist-Leninism.

[cybercoma]

The point is he certainly doesn't have the numbers to be called the man of the people when more than half the votes in his own primary were for other candidates and a tiny fraction of the electorate voted in the primaries. Furthermore, he's getting crushed in the polls. Trump doesn't have nearly the amount of support that loud mouthed social media shills claim he does:

[cybercoma]

Neither doesnHillary for that matter. She's literally the best of awful choices. Someone joked that his election is like Sophie's Choice except Sophie hates both of her kids and only one can die.

[kimmy]

I think Trump proves this notion of 'candidates hand picked by elites is false'. In Trump's case he was nominated based on his personal name recognition despite the strenuous objections of the current elites. Of course, once he demonstrated an ability to succeed he was quickly surrounded by various elites looking for personal gain (e.g. hedge fund managers looking to role back the banking regulations).

You think Trump just met these guys last week?

You think Trump was really planning on being the champion of the working man, until these investment bankers and hedge fund managers just showed up and convinced him to turn his "economic plan" into a massive gift to their industry and to the super-rich?

-k

[TimG]

You think Trump was really planning on being the champion of the working man

I think originally Trump was on a personal ego trip and no one really expected him to do as well as he did. Once he saw he could get votes by attacking immigration and free trade he realized he could be a contender. At that point he would have started attracting power seekers (I think the flies to dung metaphor is appropriate).

I don't question that he has attracted some pretty shady characters but I think you have cause and effect backwards.

Edited August 10, 2016 by TimG

[kimmy]

I think originally Trump was on a personal ego trip and no one really expected him to do as well as he did. Once he saw he could get votes by attacking immigration and free trade he realized he could be a contender. At that point he would have started attracting power seekers (I think the flies to dung metaphor is appropriate).

I don't question that he has attracted some pretty shady characters but I think you have cause and effect backwards.

So you think this billionaire has been co-opted and convinced by other billionaires to come up with an economic plan that's a gigantic gift to billionaires?

Here's an alternate theory: he came up with an economic plan that's a gigantic gift to billionaires because it's what he wants, and other billionaires are supporting him because they want the same thing.

Many of the names on his economic team of advisors are apparently people he's had business relationships with. These are his friends and colleagues; it's not any wonder that they share his ideas about how to "make America great again".

-k

[TimG]

So you think this billionaire has been co-opted and convinced by other billionaires to come up with an economic plan that's a gigantic gift to billionaires?

Trump is not that bright. If he can be manipulated by Putin in the media he can manipulated by hedge fund managers in private. I really doubt Trump has any idea why the banking regulations exist or why they want them rolled back. He is just repeating what he was told.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/ex-cia-director-no-doubt-putin-views-trump-unwitting-agent-n624786

There is no grand conspiracy here. Just a buffoon who stumbled into a unique position who has been co-opted by people with an agenda.

[Topaz]

Listening to the Americans radio, one guy said choosing between Trump and Clinton is like choosing between cancer or a heart attack! I also thinks its like the Olympics, whose being honest and just and who is cheating and using drugs to help them?

[cybercoma]

Trump is not bright and easily manipulated. What wonderful traits for a president. Maybe he is a lot like the electorate.

Edited August 10, 2016 by cybercoma

[jacee]

Do you have any answer to the problems that are perpetuated by limiting the choices of the electorate the handpicked candidates of the elite? Elections provide no real choice. The only solution is a violent upheaval. The wealthy elite will not give up their power without a fight.

You'll never win against the wealthy elites via "violent upheaval".

They control the money, the governments, the military and the police.

.

[jacee]

Trump is not that bright. If he can be manipulated by Putin in the media he can manipulated by hedge fund managers in private. I really doubt Trump has any idea why the banking regulations exist or why they want them rolled back. He is just repeating what he was told.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/ex-cia-director-no-doubt-putin-views-trump-unwitting-agent-n624786

There is no grand conspiracy here. Just a buffoon who stumbled into a unique position who has been co-opted by people with an agenda.

He's not a buffoon: He's a sociopath.

Only his money and his ego matter to him, not the US of A or any of its people.

.

Edited August 10, 2016 by jacee

[sharkman]

I imagine you're saying that with a straight face. Hilary, with her flaunting of classified and top secret laws, accepting bribes and letting the Benghazi attack happen is just good judgement and policy, right? They should marry each other they're so alike.

[BubberMiley]

I imagine you're saying that with a straight face. Hilary, with her flaunting of classified and top secret laws, accepting bribes and letting the Benghazi attack happen is just good judgement and policy, right? They should marry each other they're so alike.

Once again, either you haven't been paying attention or you're lying. She didn't "let the Benghazi attack happen." That idea was proven wrong along time ago. Next you'll still be asking for the long-term birth certificate.

[Wilber]

The British had a civil war...

And Napoleon rampaging across Europe, if he actually won humanity would have been much better off. He would have united Europe, spread liberalism across the globe, and we would be much more technologically advanced today.

Napoleon was a tyrant. He had a secret police any modern dictator would be proud of.

[kimmy]

Trump is not that bright. If he can be manipulated by Putin in the media he can manipulated by hedge fund managers in private. I really doubt Trump has any idea why the banking regulations exist or why they want them rolled back. He is just repeating what he was told.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/ex-cia-director-no-doubt-putin-views-trump-unwitting-agent-n624786

There is no grand conspiracy here. Just a buffoon who stumbled into a unique position who has been co-opted by people with an agenda.

What conspiracy? It's a megalomaniac rich guy and his friends doing exactly what you'd expect a megalomaniac rich guy and his friends to do if they had the power to redo the tax code and financial regulations to their liking.

The only mystery here is why anybody expected anything else from him.

And I certainly don't buy the notion that Trump is so incompetent that he doesn't understand that his plan is a massive gift to himself and his family. He might be completely disconnected from reality when it comes to how badly his campaign is floundering right now, and he might be out touch with a large portion of the electorate, but when it comes to dollars and cents I strongly doubt he got to this point in his business career without learning anything.

-k

[kimmy]

Once again, either you haven't been paying attention or you're lying. She didn't "let the Benghazi attack happen." That idea was proven wrong along time ago. Next you'll still be asking for the long-term birth certificate.

I've been hearing from people-- smart people, very smart people-- that Trump doesn't want to release his tax returns because he donates money to NAMBLA. I don't know if it's true. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not true, I don't know. Maybe it's not true. Can we be sure it's not true until we see Trump's tax returns? His long-form tax returns?

-k

[cybercoma]

Look, I'm not going to say whether or not he donates to NAMBLA, but a guy like that? You've got to wonder why he won't release his tax returns. People are talking. A lot of people. A lot of smart people. And some of them are saying he donates to NAMBLA. I'm not saying that but a lot of other people are.