Moonlight Graham Posted August 9, 2016 Report Posted August 9, 2016 With all the rampant performance-enhancing drug use in sports it's hard for me to get excited anymore. At least the Olympics has high standards for testing, but still... Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Boges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Posted August 9, 2016 With all the rampant performance-enhancing drug use in sports it's hard for me to get excited anymore. At least the Olympics has high standards for testing, but still... That's nothing new though. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Posted August 9, 2016 Either you compete with the best in the world or you do not. There will be an asterisk next to the winners in these games in the same way there are asterisks after all winners in the 1980 and 1984 Olympics. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Boges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Either you compete with the best in the world or you do not. There will be an asterisk next to the winners in these games in the same way there are asterisks after all winners in the 1980 and 1984 Olympics. No there won't. Those were boycotted Olympics, meaning the absent athletes withdrew from competition. The Russian athletes were banned for cheating. Now there are sports at the Olympics where the best aren't there. Soccer, Some Tennis players and Men's Golf. The two best Basketball players in the world aren't there (not that it matters). When baseball was an Olympic sport it wasn't a best on best tournament. It's still scheduled to return for 2020. Do the medals won in those sports not matter? Edited August 9, 2016 by Boges Quote
Big Guy Posted August 9, 2016 Author Report Posted August 9, 2016 No there won't. Those were boycotted Olympics, meaning the absent athletes withdrew from competition. The Russian athletes were banned for cheating. Now there are sports at the Olympics where the best aren't there. Soccer, Some Tennis players and Men's Golf. The two best Basketball players in the world aren't there (not that it matters). When baseball was an Olympic sport it wasn't a best on best tournament. It's still scheduled to return for 2020. Do the medals won in those sports not matter? The credibility that you give an accomplishment will depend on your perception of what is a level playing field. We obviously disagree in this case. The Russian athletes were banned because the Russian government got involved and was caught cheating. Those individual athletes who were barred were not caught cheating. The winner of an Olympic event will be declared the winner of that Olympic event - they will not (nor do I ) accept them as world champions. As to the asterisk next to a world record - I suggest that any baseball record between 1960 and 2000 have an asterisk as pre-steroid detection period. As for barred for those who were caught "cheating", they were barred because they were caught with the technology available at the time. Do you know how many retired world athletes have admitted to using performance enhancing drugs at the time? Do you think that there was one Tour De France cycling championship won in the last 50 years where the winner was not on some kind of performance enhancing drugs? But as I stated earlier, credibility is something that each individual imparts on an accomplishment. You have yours and I have mine. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Boges Posted August 9, 2016 Report Posted August 9, 2016 The credibility that you give an accomplishment will depend on your perception of what is a level playing field. We obviously disagree in this case. The Russian athletes were banned because the Russian government got involved and was caught cheating. Those individual athletes who were barred were not caught cheating. The winner of an Olympic event will be declared the winner of that Olympic event - they will not (nor do I ) accept them as world champions. As to the asterisk next to a world record - I suggest that any baseball record between 1960 and 2000 have an asterisk as pre-steroid detection period. As for barred for those who were caught "cheating", they were barred because they were caught with the technology available at the time. Do you know how many retired world athletes have admitted to using performance enhancing drugs at the time? Do you think that there was one Tour De France cycling championship won in the last 50 years where the winner was not on some kind of performance enhancing drugs? But as I stated earlier, credibility is something that each individual imparts on an accomplishment. You have yours and I have mine. But there won't be any asterisks put on any medal won here. In fact I saw yesterday that a female weight lifter came 2 kilos short of a World Record and the announcer pointed out that the Record holder has recently been found to have doped. So it could work the other way. Anti-Dopin isn't perfect, but as mentioned in this thread already, if there was no testing then the results would also not be preferable. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Posted August 10, 2016 .. Anti-Dopin isn't perfect, but as mentioned in this thread already, if there was no testing then the results would also not be preferable. If there was no testing then everybody would be playing on a level playing field. If they did not like the conditions then they really do not have to compete in competitions which required testing. They could progress directly into professional sports - OOPS - but performance enhancing drugs are used in every professional sport. Have it your way. Let others decide which accomplishments should have an asterisk and which should not. Me, I decide for myself. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
The_Squid Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 With all the rampant performance-enhancing drug use in sports it's hard for me to get excited anymore. At least the Olympics has high standards for testing, but still... Actually, they don't. They found state-sponsored doping and didn't eject that country (Russia). They punted it to the governing bodies of the dozens of sports who are not equipped to deal with the issue. $$$$$$$$$$$ Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 Actually, they don't. They found state-sponsored doping and didn't eject that country (Russia). They punted it to the governing bodies of the dozens of sports who are not equipped to deal with the issue. $$$$$$$$$$$ Well i'm not saying it's not crooked. I'm saying the testing methods themselves, on paper & minus corruption, is seen as the high standard for other professional sports organizations/leagues. At least that's what I always hear from orgs like MLB and UFC, who don't seem to ever come close to olympics standards for various reasons that includes crookedness & lack of will. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Wilber Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 2 If there was no testing then everybody would be playing on a level playing field. If they did not like the conditions then they really do not have to compete in competitions which required testing. They could progress directly into professional sports - OOPS - but performance enhancing drugs are used in every professional sport. Have it your way. Let others decide which accomplishments should have an asterisk and which should not. Me, I decide for myself. No they wouldn't, the competition would just be between labs instead of athletes. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 I'm so sick of swimming events. Imagine how ludicrous it would be to add backwards running, skipping and crab walk to every track race. Then medleys, relays, medley relays. I guess guys like Usain Bolt would have just as many medals as Phelps; Carl Lewis would have more. Quote
Boges Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) I'm so sick of swimming events. Imagine how ludicrous it would be to add backwards running, skipping and crab walk to every track race. Then medleys, relays, medley relays. I guess guys like Usain Bolt would have just as many medals as Phelps; Carl Lewis would have more. I got in an argument with someone who said that winning a swimming medal in multiple disciplines is very difficult. And it's comparable to Usian Bolt winning a Gold in say, Long Jump. Not sure I'm buying it, but I'm not a Swimming honk either. Edited August 10, 2016 by Boges Quote
Guest Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 I got in an argument with someone who said that winning a swimming medal in multiple disciplines is very difficult. And it's comparable to Usian Bolt winning a Gold in say, Long Jump. Not sure I'm buying it, but I'm not a Swimming honk either. I don't buy it either. However, the more events a swimmer competes in, the more fatigued they are for each race. Sometimes they have two or three races in the same day. Though, I think track athletes would also have the stamina to run a 200m dash semi-final and a 100m skipping final in the same day. Carl Lewis did win medals in the 100, 200, relay and long jump. Give him 4 options for each race plus relays and medleys and I expect he would be one of the most decorated Olympians of all time. Quote
-TSS- Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 Silly really to have tennis, golf, rugby or even soccer included in the olympics. Those sports have their established championship-competitions and the olympics has no chance of challenging those competitions of the sports involved as the most craved title. Quote
Boges Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 Silly really to have tennis, golf, rugby or even soccer included in the olympics. Those sports have their established championship-competitions and the olympics has no chance of challenging those competitions of the sports involved as the most craved title. Well Rugby 7's is a different sport from the conventional Rugby that has a World Cup and everything. Plus there's a woman's version. I agree with Tennis, Basketball and Soccer. Though I thought Golf was a good idea to be back in the Olympics because there's not tournament like an Olympic tournament on the PGA schedule where players play for their country. But the Top four mens players withdrew. I'm only interested in the women's tournament because Canada has an excellent chance to medal. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Posted August 10, 2016 I don't buy it either. However, the more events a swimmer competes in, the more fatigued they are for each race. Sometimes they have two or three races in the same day. Though, I think track athletes would also have the stamina to run a 200m dash semi-final and a 100m skipping final in the same day. Carl Lewis did win medals in the 100, 200, relay and long jump. Give him 4 options for each race plus relays and medleys and I expect he would be one of the most decorated Olympians of all time. And Carl Lewis got a little chemical help: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay He just had a better chemist than Ben Johnson. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Boges Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 And Carl Lewis got a little chemical help: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay He just had a better chemist than Ben Johnson. So, just to be clear, you're not a fan of any sports because they ALL!!!! have issues with PEDs. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 10, 2016 Author Report Posted August 10, 2016 So, just to be clear, you're not a fan of any sports because they ALL!!!! have issues with PEDs. No, I am a fan of most sports, played a few on a serious level and coached different school teams for years - including soccer, rugger, basketball, football and aquatic competitive teams. I no longer have a passion for home teams but do enjoy watching skilled athletes doing their best. I do resent the fact that the good chemists are able to give that 1% edge to human ability but sometimes that 1% is what separates the top 10 in the world. I do support organized sport for youth for many reasons but when organizations have brought in $billions into the mix for young adults in competition, then I say make it a level playing field. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Boges Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 No, I am a fan of most sports, played a few on a serious level and coached different school teams for years - including soccer, rugger, basketball, football and aquatic competitive teams. I no longer have a passion for home teams but do enjoy watching skilled athletes doing their best. I do resent the fact that the good chemists are able to give that 1% edge to human ability but sometimes that 1% is what separates the top 10 in the world. I do support organized sport for youth for many reasons but when organizations have brought in $billions into the mix for young adults in competition, then I say make it a level playing field. Even without any PEDs, people aren't playing on a level playing field. Funding, training, coaching all cost money, just like chemists do. Canada is forced to spend on amateur athletics so they can save face and host future games. We're still the only nation to host two Olympics that never produced a home Gold Medal win. Quote
Wilber Posted August 10, 2016 Report Posted August 10, 2016 I do support organized sport for youth for many reasons but when organizations have brought in $billions into the mix for young adults in competition, then I say make it a level playing field. So you would be in favour of the Canadian government having a state run and funded doping program for our national team athletes and removing any federal funding for national team members who don't want to dope? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
WestCoastRunner Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 The commentary from the media covering the female athletes is ridiculous. For example: Calling Katie Ledecky 'the female Michael phelps'. Wtf! On Simone Biles: she may go higher then the men. Why the need to compare to men. Crediting the gold medal Hungarian swimmer to her husband. He didn't swim! Commenting on a competitors leotards. Seriously? And these are just a few. I sometimes wonder if we have at all advanced in coverage of female athletes Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Big Guy Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Posted August 11, 2016 So you would be in favour of the Canadian government having a state run and funded doping program for our national team athletes and removing any federal funding for national team members who don't want to dope? That is just plain silly. You want a serious discussion or do you want to make silly? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Posted August 11, 2016 The commentary from the media covering the female athletes is ridiculous. For example: Calling Katie Ledecky 'the female Michael phelps'. Wtf! On Simone Biles: she may go higher then the men. Why the need to compare to men. Crediting the gold medal Hungarian swimmer to her husband. He didn't swim! Commenting on a competitors leotards. Seriously? And these are just a few. I sometimes wonder if we have at all advanced in coverage of female athletes Watched some female beach volleyball. Saw one side in the usual skimp and the other side in full body coverage. Apparently dress code is up to the competitors. The outfits on these skimpy ladies is an embarrassment. After every series of volleys they have to pull their bikini bottoms down and pull out a wedgie. Those outfits may have been required to get this sport off the ground in California but it is now an Olympic Sport!! I enjoy volleyball but found this unpleasant and quickly turned to rugger. Am looking forward to the guys coming out in jock straps to see the reaction of the rules committee. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
WestCoastRunner Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 We're still the only nation to host two Olympics that never produced a home Gold Medal win. What?? Are you sure? We only hosted 2 Olympics? We didn't get any gold medals? Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted August 11, 2016 Report Posted August 11, 2016 Watched some female beach volleyball. Saw one side in the usual skimp and the other side in full body coverage. Apparently dress code is up to the competitors. The outfits on these skimpy ladies is an embarrassment. After every series of volleys they have to pull their bikini bottoms down and pull out a wedgie. Those outfits may have been required to get this sport off the ground in California but it is now an Olympic Sport!! I enjoy volleyball but found this unpleasant and quickly turned to rugger. Am looking forward to the guys coming out in jock straps to see the reaction of the rules committee. I suspect the choice of bikinis may have to do more with getting lucrative ad contracts than anything else. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
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