Our new Syrian refugee immigrants.

[G Huxley]

There was no non sequitur. It is obvious, but if you really do need it explained fine.

Humans no matter where they are take massive amounts of resources, especially in industrialized countries, which is pretty much everywhere now. So if you have immigrants/refugees from cultures where they have very large family sizes e.g. in Islam, then the population will increase, this will take further demands on resources to sustain them. More mining, more farming, more forestry, more resource extraction, more oil, more fracking, (which in turn requires massive amounts of resources and water), more energy etc.

A perfect example is not only all the proposed pipelines across various parts of Canada and the tar sands, but the proposed Site C Damn, which will flood a massive valley causing massive environmental damage/disruption. If it weren't for high population there would not be the energy demands calling for a new dam.

Edited June 4, 2016 by G Huxley

[WestCoastRunner]

There was no non sequitur. It is obvious, but if you really do need it explained fine.

Humans no matter where they are take massive amounts of resources, especially in industrialized countries, which is pretty much everywhere now. So if you have immigrants/refugees from cultures where they have very large family sizes e.g. in Islam, then the population will increase, this will take further demands on resources to sustain them. More mining, more farming, more forestry, more resource extraction, more oil, more fracking, (which in turn requires massive amounts of resources and water), more energy etc.

A perfect example is not only all the proposed pipelines across various parts of Canada and the tar sands, but the proposed Site C Damn, which will flood a massive valley causing massive environmental damage/disruption. If it weren't for high population there would not be the energy demands calling for a new dam.

There is no concrete evidence that this dam is needed for the population growth.

[G Huxley]

It isn't needed actually, but humans are intensely greedy, which is why human population increase is the worst thing possible.

[TimG]

There is no concrete evidence that this dam is needed for the population growth.

Any chance of reducing dependency on fossil fuels requires the development of all available hydro-power resources. So it really makes no difference if the dam is needed for population growth or because a coal plant is phased out or because electric cars will require that we generate more electricity per person. The bottom line is the dam is needed and our needs for electricity are directly liked to population. Edited June 5, 2016 by TimG

[cannuck]

Be very careful that YOU are not the one ending up on "reserves".

If you are not aboriginal, your existence here is "legal" only under a 15th century Papal decree know as the "Doctrine of Discovery". (part of why this country says it was "originated" as a "Christian" country, but I digress).

There has been an effective lobby to have the Vatican repeal this doctrine.

http://www.doctrineofdiscovery.org/

http://aptn.ca/news/2016/06/01/church-considering-request-to-rescind-doctrine-of-discovery/

Canada, the US, and other countries have pieces of this Doctrine chiseled into their constitutions... and when it is repealed, the already-tenuous legal framework for our occupancy here becomes zero.

Unless we want civil war, we better play nice. If we think we have strong arguments to make about the contribution that WE have made to the well-being of this land's inhabitants, we should be using our energy to prove it, and use that leverage to negotiate agreements for long-term peace going forward.

... If, instead, we have raped the country of its resources, moved its wealth into a very few pockets (especially offshore pockets), and have impoverished all other aboriginals, colonists, immigrants, and refugees alike.... then maybe we should be very afraid.

The law of Canada is what Canadians make it. The idea that some religious cult spewing its endless hate and BS could in any way make a legal precedent is ludicrous. MOST Canadians discovered just what the Vatican is made of from Mount Cashel (the one in Newfoundland, not the one in Ireland). We don't HAVE a "constitution" as Quebec has yet to ratify it, so at least for now, the BNA actually has legal precedent - except we don't even choose to follow the real law when administering to Canada.

The concept of civil war with a group of people who have a tribal culture that accommodates administrative corruption long before social welfare or productive enterprise is laughable. Go and live on a reserve for a while and come back to me on that one. They could only wage civil war if we were to give them the funding and fight it for them. Not too many bureaucrats in the Indian Industry have the balls to pick up a weapon and use it.

Moving refugees onto reserves is probably the best thing we could do for our aboriginal population. Having some role models who can get off of their ass and work for a living would be diametrically opposite to the Indian Industry that survives by maintaining the status quo.

[Icebound]

The law of Canada is what Canadians make it.

Not exactly....

The law of Canada is what the population will TOLERATE.

A law that nobody wants, or a law that makes no sense, or a law that is unjust, or that oppresses a segment of population, makes them desperate etc., etc..... will quickly get ignored, struck down, disobeyed, or .... perhaps .... even violently protested.

Laws are always a delicate balance between the wishes of the majority, and protection of minorities..."negotiation"....,

Overall, Canada has done a pretty good job of that, but it can't become complacent. If that balance is not maintained going forward, violence is pretty much sure to follow. It is happening in the USA, Israel, of course Iraq, Ukraine, even Hong Kong.

Symbolism is important, whether you believe so or not. 500 years ago the Church issued a permission slip for the invasion of the Americas. Rescinding that permission... even if 500 years too late,.... would be a HUGE symbolic gesture... especially in those countries that like to brand themselves as having "Christian origin..."..

As for resources.... it is a global world out there. If people are desperate enough, they will find resources.

...

[G Huxley]

"Moving refugees onto reserves is probably the best thing we could do for our aboriginal population. Having some role models who can get off of their ass and work for a living would be diametrically opposite to the Indian Industry that survives by maintaining the status quo."

I'm not allowed to say what I want to say to you.

[G Huxley]

In terms of religion I also have a major problem with Islamic people coming to Canada on the very most simple grounds that atheists like myself Kafirs are supposed to either be turned into slaves or have our heads chopped off in traditional Islam.

The Islamic lunatics have enough countries. They can stay in them.

Edited June 6, 2016 by G Huxley

[Icebound]

In terms or religion I also have a major problem with Islamic people coming to Canada on the very most simple grounds that atheists like myself Kafirs are supposed to either be turned into slaves or have our heads chopped off in traditional Islam.

The Islamic lunatics have enough countries. They can stay in them.

Even Harper's own study does not support your position.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/radicalization-rcmp-terrorism-csis-muslim-violence-1.3613341

[G Huxley]

The 10s of thousands of fighters returning from diasporas to join ISIS is pretty obvious proof.

[Icebound]

The 10s of thousands of fighters returning from diasporas to join ISIS is pretty obvious proof.

Yes, but of that number, only a handful come from the US and Canada.... only a few hundred out of a Muslim population of something like 4 million (both countries combined).

It is not that surprising that some Muslims may feel more Muslim than American/Canadian, if we keep treating them with suspicion... and ESPECIALLY, if we treat them with suspicion in official government statements and policies, Donald Trump may not be government yet, but as the Presidential nominee, his statements carry weight. The Harper government's attitude to Muslims WERE a government's statements.

If there is somebody teetering on the brink of radicalization, that is the kind of rhetoric that may put him over. And it turns out that a large Canada-friendly Muslim community actually helps identify these people, as shown by Harpers' own study as I quoted..

...

[Argus]

It is not that surprising that some Muslims may feel more Muslim than American/Canadian,

The majority do, in fact, according to recent polls.

[GostHacked]

The 10s of thousands of fighters returning from diasporas to join ISIS is pretty obvious proof.

Now, HOW did that diaspora come about? Blame them solely? Or can other nations like Russia and the US take much of the blame for creating environments that were conducive to extremism by supplying terrorists on all sides?

[G Huxley]

Yes, but of that number, only a handful come from the US and Canada.... only a few hundred out of a Muslim population of something like 4 million (both countries combined).

It is not that surprising that some Muslims may feel more Muslim than American/Canadian, if we keep treating them with suspicion... and ESPECIALLY, if we treat them with suspicion in official government statements and policies, Donald Trump may not be government yet, but as the Presidential nominee, his statements carry weight. The Harper government's attitude to Muslims WERE a government's statements.

If there is somebody teetering on the brink of radicalization, that is the kind of rhetoric that may put him over. And it turns out that a large Canada-friendly Muslim community actually helps identify these people, as shown by Harpers' own study as I quoted..

...

Why do we even need to have this debate? How many Muslim countries are there? Why does Canada need Muslims?

If they are sitting here teetering on the brink of radicalization why did we bring them here in the first place? If we'd done that it would have been a prophylactic like birth control, you know what Erdogan said Muslims shouldn't use. We wouldn't be dealing with this problem right now.

Edited June 6, 2016 by G Huxley

[G Huxley]

Now, HOW did that diaspora come about? Blame them solely? Or can other nations like Russia and the US take much of the blame for creating environments that were conducive to extremism by supplying terrorists on all sides?

I'm well aware that Russia and the US's policies have been insane from the get go regarding the Middle East.

[PIK]

Now, HOW did that diaspora come about? Blame them solely? Or can other nations like Russia and the US take much of the blame for creating environments that were conducive to extremism by supplying terrorists on all sides?

The biggest problem Israel has is not Muslim countries who are in the process of learning to live with a Jewish state. It is the international left that is the main cause of hate towards them. I have said it many times ISIS will bring the mu slims and the Jews together to defeat a common problem. The international left needs to back off.

[Icebound]

The majority do, in fact, according to recent polls.

Of course they do.

If every time YOU turned on the TV... and YOUR religion or race or occupation or colour-of-your-eyes .... was being questioned and disparaged by some government official, or wannabe president, or any other pundit ... then you, too, would probably have a problem identifying yourself as part of the society.

....

[Icebound]

Why do we even need to have this debate? How many Muslim countries are there? Why does Canada need Muslims?

We wouldn't be dealing with this problem right now.

What "problem" exactly would that be?

Are you telling me that statistically, you are more likely to be killed by a Muslim than by, say, a deranged "confirmed atheist" such as the Montrealer by the name of Lépine? or by a cop shooter like in Moncton? or by a bankrupt oriental, such as Phu Lam in Edmonton?

THOSE problems were real..

On any given year there are 500-600 homicides in this country ( my apologies to our American friends). Yes, a few of those were the direct result of Muslim extremism. But how does the Muslim participation in Canadians' deaths compare to the participation by OTHER faiths/ non-faiths? And how is MUSLIM participation in crime any more of a "problem" than others?

[G Huxley]

"What "problem" exactly would that be?"

Dealing with fence sitting or not fence sitting Muslim extremists, which I would say actually is not even the worst problem with Muslim immigrants. The worst problem and I've said it time and time again is the high family sizes.

"Are you telling me that statistically, you are more likely to be killed by a Muslim than by, say, a deranged "confirmed atheist" such as the Montrealer by the name of Lépine? or by a cop shooter like in Moncton? or by a bankrupt oriental, such as Phu Lam in Edmonton?"

Statistically I'm not concerned at all about being killed by a Muslim in Canada. I'm concerned about the idiotic crusades the west is stuck in the Middle East and the fact that the west is being overrun by Muslims with high family sizes.

[Argus]

Of course they do.

If every time YOU turned on the TV... and YOUR religion or race or occupation or colour-of-your-eyes .... was being questioned and disparaged by

The majority of them do in every country where they have been surveyed, including Muslim majority countries.

[eyeball]

The biggest problem Israel has is not Muslim countries who are in the process of learning to live with a Jewish state. It is the international left that is the main cause of hate towards them. I have said it many times ISIS will bring the mu slims and the Jews together to defeat a common problem. The international left needs to back off.

Instead of forever whining about the left maybe the international right should get off its collective ass and do something about it.

[?Impact]

The worst problem and I've said it time and time again is the high family sizes.

Is that a factor of being Muslim, or being from a specific country. What is the size of Canadian Muslim families, compared to the status quo? Do you have a problem with Catholics, they had a religious reason (church against contraception) for their large family sizes. Islam has been far more accepting of birth control within certain bounds than the Catholic Church.

[G Huxley]

"Is that a factor of being Muslim, or being from a specific country."

Obviously of Muslim culture.

"What is the size of Canadian Muslim families, compared to the status quo?"

I don't have the statistics, merely observation that they are higher than the average.

"Do you have a problem with Catholics, they had a religious reason (church against contraception) for their large family sizes."

Yes I do have a problem with Catholics.

"Islam has been far more accepting of birth control within certain bounds than the Catholic Church."

Current numbers have the Islamic population growing so quickly that it will in fact equal that of Christianity in some years.

"Christianity is currently the world's largest religion, making up a third of the world's population with 2.2 billion adherents. Pew research shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The religious group will make up 30 percent of the world's population by 2050, compared to just 23 percent of the population in 2010. That means the number of Muslims in the world will nearly equal the number of Christians by 2050."

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/12/25/460797744/a-religious-forecast-for-2050-atheism-is-down-islam-is-rising

[G Huxley]

"What is the size of Canadian Muslim families, compared to the status quo?"

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/survey-shows-muslim-population-is-fastest-growing-religion-in-canada

"The Muslim population exceeded the one million mark, according to the survey, almost doubling its population for the third-consecutive decade."


At the rate of doubling every decade. It will be the dominant religion in Canada in only a few decades.

People will ask, how we could have been so short sighted of the future, that we gave our country away that our ancestors struggled for.

Did we not see our own value as something worth defending?

Edited June 7, 2016 by G Huxley

[?Impact]

"The Muslim population exceeded the one million mark, according to the survey, almost doubling its population for the third-consecutive decade."

At the rate of doubling every decade. It will be the dominant religion in Canada in only a few decades.

How much are those numbers related to immigration, and how much to Canadian Muslim families raising children here? None of what you cite is relevant to the question is it Canadian Muslim families that are growing faster than the status quo. Remember we are approaching 25% of Canadians were not born here, and with over a million immigrants every 5 years it doesn't take long to make up those numbers on immigrants alone. I see that as a very different issue about immigration and not religion.