Transgender

[betsy]

@Betsy ... accepting differences in people doesn't mean you have to do or not do certain things with them. As long as the 52-year-old little girl wasn't harming anyone, I don't feel a need to object to them, even if I disagree with their particular schtick. Whether they could associate with myself and my family would depend on how I felt about them as a person, how well I knew them, whether I trusted them not to impose their schtick on my kids.

It's kind of similar to how I feel about Christians: I don't agree with their particular schtick, but whether I or my children will associate with any individual depends entirely on how I feel about them as a person - how well I know them, whether I trust them not to impose their schtick on my kids.

Accepting someone doesn't mean one has to become best buddies with them, hang out with them or have them spend the night. It simply means you allow them to live their life free from harassment and Judgement. You can even accept people you don't like, since acceptance merely means they have the right to live their life as they see fit, as long as they are not causing harm to others. That was the message I took from the command 'thou shall not judge' back in my Christian days, and it's what I still try to follow.

Your lecture is irrelevant.

And, it's not exactly as simple as you make it sound. That's superficial.

Of course there is pressure to do more than just what you say - otherwise, there wouldn't be any bathroom controversies in the USA!

You should backtrack and read what Impact and I were actually discussing about. It has to do with brain-wiring.

As for your old Christian days, perhaps you needed more time to understand the Scripture?

Funny how the Christian card keeps coming up.

"Thou shalt not judge," does not mean as you think it does.

Edited June 24, 2016 by betsy

[jacee]

What? Where does it say that we can't bring up that term [pedophile] in any gay or transgender threads?

It's off topic.

Start a thread about pedophiles.

.

Edited June 24, 2016 by jacee

[betsy]

It's off topic.

Start a thread about pedophiles.

.

Read the exchanges between Impact and me, and why pedophile is given as an example.

It's not off-topic....unless you have problems with comprehension!

Btw, why are you sensitive with the term, pedophile? You're irrationally defensive about that.

If you read what I've said about that, you'd see that nowhere was I insinuating that transgenders are pedophiles!

Oh boy......talk about projection.....

.....you're the one who automatically connects pedophiles with transgenders!

Edited June 25, 2016 by betsy

[dialamah]

Your lecture is irrelevant.

And, it's not exactly as simple as you make it sound. That's superficial.

Of course there is pressure to do more than just what you say - otherwise, there wouldn't be any bathroom controversies in the USA!

You should backtrack and read what Impact and I were actually discussing about. It has to do with brain-wiring.

As for your old Christian days, perhaps you needed more time to understand the Scripture?

Funny how the Christian card keeps coming up.

I was responding specifically to your question about letting a 52-year-old adult child hang out with someone's six-year-old to prove they 'accept' such. I ought to have quoted you though; my bad for assuming you'd follow the context.

"Thou shalt not judge," does not mean as you think it does.

Given the 100s of different "Christian" interpretations of what any given phrase in the bible means, I'd say that's entirely a matter of opinion and not fact.

Some Christians really seem to get the whole idea of 'loving the sinner, not the sin', not judging people, honestly and effectively reaching out their hand to help others up and even into Christianity. But they're relatively rare; most Christians take considerable satisfaction in saying "You are BAD because the Bible says so! You will be punished!" whilst crying crocodile tears about how morally corrupt and undeserving people are.

[betsy]

I was responding specifically to your question about letting a 52-year-old adult child hang out with someone's six-year-old to prove they 'accept' such. I ought to have quoted you though; my bad for assuming you'd follow the context.

Right. You don't know what prompted it......that means, you've taken the question out of context.

There's a reason why I asked him that. Go back and read how that discussion started with Impact and I.

You're butting in - and lecturing - without knowing the details.

Edited June 25, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Given the 100s of different "Christian" interpretations of what any given phrase in the bible means, I'd say that's entirely a matter of opinion and not fact.

Some Christians really seem to get the whole idea of 'loving the sinner, not the sin', not judging people, honestly and effectively reaching out their hand to help others up and even into Christianity. But they're relatively rare; most Christians take considerable satisfaction in saying "You are BAD because the Bible says so! You will be punished!" whilst crying crocodile tears about how morally corrupt and undeserving people are.

All that lecture about Christianity is irrelevant to the topic. Especially on this section.

And no, Nothing is a matter of opinion, and not everything is a matter of interpretation (that's what relativists love to say)!

There's only one Opinion that matters - God's! Whether you agree with Him, or not!

There are some things written in the Scriptures that are quite clear! Like homosexuality, as an example.

That doesn't need any interpreting!

Speaking of making judgement - do you know my views at all?

You didn't even know what my question to Impact was all about....and yet that didn't stop you from making judgement about me, and wagging your finger in my face! So please, spare me the histrionics!

I'm merely saying too, that not only is your lecture irrelevant....but it smacks of ignorance, too. That's all.

If you want to continue with that line....why don't you create a thread for it in Religion?

Edited June 25, 2016 by betsy

[The_Squid]

What does scripture tell us about being transgender?

[WestCoastRunner]

There are some things written in the Scriptures that are quite clear! Like homosexuality, as an example.

That doesn't need any interpreting!

It's that bizarre and wrong interpretation that got 50 individuals in Florida gunned down.

[betsy]

It's that bizarre and wrong interpretation that got 50 individuals in Florida gunned down.

Wrong interpretation?

Read what you've quoted:

There are some things written in the Scriptures that are quite clear! Like homosexuality, as an example.

That doesn't need any interpreting!

Btw, I was referring to the Bible. Do you have any idea as to what verses in the Bible I refer to?

To whom did the Orlando shooter dedicate his killings? Do you know?

It's your response that's what's bizarre.

Same advice given to Dialamah applies to you, too. Take a long time to sit down, and understand what you read.

Edited June 30, 2016 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

Wrong interpretation?

Read what you've quoted:

Btw, I was referring to the Bible. Do you have any idea as to what verses in the Bible I refer to?

To whom did the Orlando shooter dedicate his killings? Do you know?

It's your response that's what's bizarre.

Same advice given to Dialamah applies to you, too. Take a long time to sit down, and understand what you read.

What are you going on about?

[betsy]

What are you going on about?

See? I easily read thru you. You don't even have a clue!

And yet you're quick to say, "it's that bizarre and wrong interpretation....."

<slaps forehead>

How can you even say it's the wrong interpretation when you have no idea what I was referring to? Isn't that bizarre?

Bizarre. Don't use "big words" that comes back haunting you. And gives me the ammo to say, "how ironic."

Furthermore, you connect the Bible to the Orlando shooting.....when the shooter was obviously a Muslim - therefore he read the Qu'ran - and not only that, he dedicated his killings to Isis!

I mean, your one-sentence statement actually said everything about you: you're totally commenting from utter ignorance! Translation: you don't know what you're talking about!

Furthermore, I've said, it's so clear that it doesn't need any interpreting at all!

So please read, and most importantly, UNDERSTAND what it is you're responding to.....especially when you're quoting what you're addressing, because.......when you quote what you're responding to, you're only displaying the evidence of your ignorant statement for all to see. Your response was out of sync! Totally.

Edited July 1, 2016 by betsy

[jacee]

There's only one Opinion that matters - God's! Whether you agree with Him, or not!

There are some things written in the Scriptures that are quite clear! Like homosexuality, as an example.

That doesn't need any interpreting!

While the origin of this piece remains elusive, it is relevant nonetheless.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Parody%20and%20Humor/OpenLetterToDrLaura.html

When someone tries to defend the homosexual

lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly

states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of

God's Law and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a

pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They

claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus

21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her

period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I

tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and

female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A

friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not

Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

... (continued) ...

It's hilarious ... and it clearly demonstrates the folly of applying literal interpretations of the Bible to today's world.

Perhaps you'd like to take a crack at answering the questions, Betsy?

.

Edited July 1, 2016 by jacee

[kimmy]

Ultimately, if God is unhappy with those of us who aren't living according to the Old Testament, he's can come down here and deal with us in person, or he can talk to us when we're dead.

-k

[Hal 9000]

While the origin of this piece remains elusive, it is relevant nonetheless.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Parody%20and%20Humor/OpenLetterToDrLaura.html

When someone tries to defend the homosexual

lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly

states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of

God's Law and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a

pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They

claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus

21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her

period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I

tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and

female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A

friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not

Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

... (continued) ...

It's hilarious ... and it clearly demonstrates the folly of applying literal interpretations of the Bible to today's world.

Perhaps you'd like to take a crack at answering the questions, Betsy?

.

Leviticus is old testament, it doesn't really apply to Christians.

[The_Squid]

Leviticus is old testament, it doesn't really apply to Christians.

Then why do the 10 Commandments?

[kimmy]

Then why do the 10 Commandments?

Leviticus is primarily civil law for Israelites. The 10 commandments are moral law straight from the big man himself. There's a considerable difference.

-k

[The_Squid]

Leviticus is primarily civil law for Israelites. The 10 commandments are moral law straight from the big man himself. There's a considerable difference.

-k

Indeed... That's the argument. Of course, even these are interpreted beyond all recognition, or cherry picked.

How many Christians keep the Sabbath?

Hal's argument was that the Old Testament doesn't count anymore, which is different than the one Kimmy is repeating.

Edited July 2, 2016 by The_Squid

[jacee]

Leviticus is old testament, it doesn't really apply to Christians.

I don't know.

Leviticus provides betsy's position on homosexuality, sO I assume she follows all of it.

She could likely get away with barbecuing a bull if she shares it with the neighbours and provides condiments.

Putting your neighbours to death if they don't observe the Sabbath though ... that's a tricky one to do these days.

?

.

Edited July 2, 2016 by jacee

[Bryan]

Putting your neighbours to death if they don't observe the Sabbath though ... that's a tricky one to do these days.

Good thing there is no instruction for Christians to do anything of the sort.

[betsy]

I don't know.

Leviticus provides betsy's position on homosexuality, sO I assume she follows all of it.

Who sez I refer to Leviticus on homosexuality? My position is drawn from the New Testament.

Romans 1

²⁶ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷ In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

²⁸ Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. ²⁹ They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

1 Cor 6

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous2 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: xneither the sexually immoral,

nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

1 Tim 1

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,2 liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound3 doctrine,

Homosexuality - can't get any clearer than that! It even talked about lesbians!

That's the thing with you - you're ignorant of the Bible. You're arguing about something you don't really know

anything about.

FYI, the Old Testament simply gives the historical account on how Christianity came to be. It also provides some understanding of God.

Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and most of the laws, were meant for the Jews of that time because they were supposed to be a nation of priests.

Exodus 19

⁵ Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, ⁶ you^[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

As the Old Testament shows, the Jews have not kept their part of the covenant!

The OT is a historical account of a cycle of offenses to God, punishment, forgiveness, blessings, offenses to God, and so on.

The Messiah (God) had made a new covenant in the New Testament.

Hebrews 8

The High Priest of a New Covenant

¹³ By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Edited July 2, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Hal's argument was that the Old Testament doesn't count anymore, which is different than the one Kimmy is repeating.

The LAW - the 10 Commandments - still very much count!

Jesus Christ not only said He didn't come to change the laws, but had actually expanded on them. He explained!

Like adultery, as an example.

The 10 Commandments is the universal law.

Edited July 2, 2016 by betsy

[WestCoastRunner]

Who sez I refer to Leviticus on homosexuality? My position is drawn from the New Testament.

Romans 1

²⁶ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷ In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

²⁸ Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. ²⁹ They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

1 Cor 6

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous2 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: xneither the sexually immoral,

nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

1 Tim 1

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,2 liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound3 doctrine,

Homosexuality - can't get any clearer than that! It even talked about lesbians!

That's the thing with you - you're ignorant of the Bible. You're arguing about something you don't really know

anything about.

FYI, the Old Testament simply gives the historical account on how Christianity came to be. It also provides some understanding of God.

Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and most of the laws, were meant for the Jews of that time because they were supposed to be a nation of priests.

Exodus 19

⁵ Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, ⁶ you^[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.

As the Old Testament shows, the Jews have not kept their part of the covenant!

The OT is a historical account of a cycle of offenses to God, punishment, forgiveness, blessings, offenses to God, and so on.

The Messiah (God) had made a new covenant in the New Testament.

Hebrews 8

The High Priest of a New Covenant

¹³ By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

You really need to stop promoting hatred towards the gay community. It's disgusting. Edited July 2, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[Ash74]

The LAW - the 10 Commandments - still very much count!

Jesus Christ not only said He didn't come to change the laws, but had actually expanded on them. He explained!

Like adultery, as an example.

The 10 Commandments is the universal law.

What does the bible have to do with trans?

Or anything really? Other than a form of brainwashing for the masses.

I am all for the people to have the right to change their sex if they want to. None of my business and it is really such a small number of people I feel the Gay rights groups are just picking a fight to be heard.

You wanna change into a he/she? By all means have at it.But pay for it yourself. The argument about who should pay for it well I would rather those funds go into stem cell research or other medical studies.

These funds would be better spent elsewhere and not because somebody in a committee wrote it down a couple thousand years ago

[Bryan]

You really need to stop promoting hatred towards the gay community. It's disgusting.

She isn't doing anything of the sort. Perhaps your bigotry against Christianity is clouding your judgement.

[jacee]

Good thing there is no instruction for Christians to do anything of the sort.

Lots of evangelical Christians do follow the Old Testament these days ... especially to define homosexuality as an "abomination".

.