Transgender

jacee · June 18, 2016

This is a two way street. Society can't twist itself into knots trying to accommodate the needs of every abnormal person. A compromise would be 'transgenders use the washroom that matches their outward physical appearance'. A compromise is not 'biological males are free to use female public change rooms'. i.e. we are talking 'reasonable accommodation' - not 'accommodation no matter what the cost'.

A penis or vagina is not "outward physical appearance", so I assume you mean their clothes?

Or are you doing genital checks at the door?

.

Edited June 18, 2016 by jacee

Rue · June 20, 2016

The concepts of feminine and masculine continue to evolve and blur.

Look at all the work. Plucking of eyebrows, manicures, shaving of all body hair, breast lifts,

implants of all kinds, liposuction, millions spent on creams and moisturizers and

teased, dyed and styled hair and that's just the guys.

Then you get someone like Serena Williams who God bless her is built like Lebron James

or in my day we would say Jim Brown.

I think Muhammed Ali started it telling everyone he was pretty.

Also the movie Some Like It Hot.

GostHacked · June 21, 2016

This gender bending thing is getting out of hand and I think will end up to be very detrimental to society with a bunch of people that are continually confused as to what and who they are.

It almost seems abnormal to consider yourself a straight white male who identifies as a male.

cybercoma · June 21, 2016

This gender bending thing is getting out of hand and I think will end up to be very detrimental to society with a bunch of people that are continually confused as to what and who they are.

It almost seems abnormal to consider yourself a straight white male who identifies as a male.

Histrionics.

In all seriousness, this is the same argument people used against miscegenation--"But the kids won't know what they are! Think of the children! This will lead to the downfall of society with nobody knowing who they are." It's the same argument used against homosexual couples adopting children--"How will the kids know who the mother and father are if they have two dads!? This will lead to the downfall of society with a bunch of confused children!"

Edited June 21, 2016 by cybercoma

-1=e^ipi · June 22, 2016

This gender bending thing is getting out of hand and I think will end up to be very detrimental to society with a bunch of people that are continually confused as to what and who they are.

No, it will be very beneficial. The sooner we confuse all the sexes and genders, the sooner people will be treated equally and the sooner sexism dies.

betsy · June 22, 2016

Do you see any differences between male and female minds? I am not talking intellectual capability or aptitude, but more emotional or attitude. Lets use the term wired to explain the brain since we are far from fully understanding its complexities. It is fairly clear that the older we get, the more difficult it is to rewire our brains. When we are young, we have an amazing ability to learn things like languages that become much more difficult to master as we age. Certainly some of us exhibit proficiencies in skills, like mathematics, that others find extremely difficult. Certainly some of our emotional wiring is influenced by our bodies chemistry/hormones. How much of that wiring takes place in the womb, early childhood, and later stages in life, and how difficult is it to rewire? We know from past experience that attempts to rewire people, like making them non-gay have rarely succeeded and usually end up causing far worse problems.

So you think there's nothing psychologically/mentally wrong with this 52 year old dad who's transgendered,

and claims to be a 6 year old girl?

If he's "wired" to feel like he is a 6 year old girl.....there shouldn't be anything wrong with that, should it?

We'd have to accept that without any question?

Are you going to let this "6-year old girl" play, and have a sleep-over with your daughter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCVRrybYWNE

Will you trust your own daughter to be alone with "her?"

While for most of us, for whatever reason(s), our mind tends to have similarities with others based on our genetic identity, how do you know that is not the case for all. Is it not possible that transgendered people have parts of their brains wired in a manner that aligns closer with opposite biological sex? Do you call that a defect, and pull an Orlando nightclub act and get rid of those that don't conform to your standard? Do we put them into therapy, which history tells us will fail spectacularly? Do we accept that their differences are part of them and learn how to live with that?

How do you know indeed?

And how do you know that it's not the gene that causes a mental disorder?

How do you explain people who'd transgendered, and wanted to be back to their original gender?

What is this? A joke?

UK’s youngest transgender patient seeks to reverse “sex-change” October 29, 2012

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/uks-youngest-transgender-patient-seeks-to-reverse-sex-change/

Let's face it, a lot of people SEEK ATTENTION! They try to make controversy! To be in the news!

They want their 15-minutes of fame. That's why you see parents in the news talking about their 5-year olds wanting to have a sex-change!

Edited June 22, 2016 by betsy

GostHacked · June 22, 2016

No, it will be very beneficial. The sooner we confuse all the sexes and genders, the sooner people will be treated equally and the sooner sexism dies.

The thing is we are all ALREADY treated equally. Correct?

-1=e^ipi · June 22, 2016

The thing is we are all ALREADY treated equally. Correct?

No, not even close. Equality has never been reached, and now we are in a period of extreme gynocentrism.

?Impact · June 22, 2016

So you think...

I usually start questions with 'Do', or are you trying to tell me how I think?

I think we are all different, and to varying degrees. The question is how do we deal with those differences? If those differences cause harm to another individual, then yes I would consider them a 'defect' and need to be dealt with. Certainly there are differences that are clearly outside the norm, but do they cause harm to others? Homosexuality is outside the norm, but there are tens of millions of homosexuals that are strong contributing members of society in all walks of life. There are a lot fewer transgender people, but does that suddenly mean they are not strong contributing members of society? What about those people who like to dress up in Star Trek costumes, do we suddenly ignore their other contributions and send them to therapy?

If you read what I wrote, you would know I don't recommend surgery just like I don't recommend conversion/conformity therapy. I think the risk is high with both of them of failure, and possibly creating a worse situation. The point is that is a recommendation, not a decree. Only the individual gets to make the decision. Hopefully when medical treatment such as these is being sought, our medical practitioners can directly and/or through support staff help fully inform the patient of the choices and associated risks.

You bring up the issue of trust. To me trust is not built on superficial characteristics, but something earned over time. Yes the superficial characteristics will influence my initial impressions of an individual and they might have a harder time earning my trust. I know when I was young I would have had a hard time accepting someone that was openly homosexual because that was the attitude of society at the time. Now many decades later after getting to know many homosexual people both as friends and colleagues, I have no problems accepting anyone new. Like everyone else it takes time to build trust in an individual, but they don't start out with a disadvantage. I don't see why transgender should be any different. I think far more harm is done by creating outcasts than being accepting. I don't immediately distrust someone because they are transgender, just like I don't immediately trust someone because they are straight.

betsy · June 23, 2016

I usually start questions with 'Do', or are you trying to tell me how I think?

I think we are all different, and to varying degrees. The question is how do we deal with those differences? If those differences cause harm to another individual, then yes I would consider them a 'defect' and need to be dealt with. Certainly there are differences that are clearly outside the norm, but do they cause harm to others? Homosexuality is outside the norm, but there are tens of millions of homosexuals that are strong contributing members of society in all walks of life. There are a lot fewer transgender people, but does that suddenly mean they are not strong contributing members of society? What about those people who like to dress up in Star Trek costumes, do we suddenly ignore their other contributions and send them to therapy?

If you read what I wrote, you would know I don't recommend surgery just like I don't recommend conversion/conformity therapy. I think the risk is high with both of them of failure, and possibly creating a worse situation. The point is that is a recommendation, not a decree. Only the individual gets to make the decision. Hopefully when medical treatment such as these is being sought, our medical practitioners can directly and/or through support staff help fully inform the patient of the choices and associated risks.

You bring up the issue of trust. To me trust is not built on superficial characteristics, but something earned over time. Yes the superficial characteristics will influence my initial impressions of an individual and they might have a harder time earning my trust. I know when I was young I would have had a hard time accepting someone that was openly homosexual because that was the attitude of society at the time. Now many decades later after getting to know many homosexual people both as friends and colleagues, I have no problems accepting anyone new. Like everyone else it takes time to build trust in an individual, but they don't start out with a disadvantage. I don't see why transgender should be any different. I think far more harm is done by creating outcasts than being accepting. I don't immediately distrust someone because they are transgender, just like I don't immediately trust someone because they are straight.

I'm not saying they aren't contributing members of society. I suppose even Ted Bundy was a contributing member of society.

I asked you about that 52-year old transgendered man who identifies as a 6 year old girl.

If you'd known this man for a year....will you let your daughter have a sleep-over with "her?"

Edited June 23, 2016 by betsy

WestCoastRunner · June 23, 2016

I'm not saying they aren't contributing members of society. I suppose even Ted Bundy was a contributing member of society.

I asked you about that 52-year old transgendered man who identifies as a 6 year old girl.

If you'd known this man for a year....will you let your daughter have a sleep-over with "her?"

Why would anyone let their 6 year old daughter make friends with a 52 year old to hang out? Can you present more realistic situations?

-1=e^ipi · June 23, 2016

Why would anyone let their 6 year old daughter make friends with a 52 year old to hang out? Can you present more realistic situations?

That was realistic. Go see Betsy's link.

?Impact · June 23, 2016

I'm not saying they aren't contributing members of society. I suppose even Ted Bundy was a contributing member of society.

I asked you about that 52-year old transgendered man who identifies as a 6 year old girl.

If you'd known this man for a year....will you let your daughter have a sleep-over with "her?"

Ted Bundy harmed others, exactly what I pointed out is what I have problems with.

Knowing someone for a year is meaningless, how well did I know them and what did I learn? I don't know what you mean by a sleep-over. Generally I would wonder about a 6 year old having a sleepover with any 52 year old (straight, gay, bisexual, transgender, whatever). If a 52 year old identifies as a pre-schooler, then that has nothing to do with sexual identity that is a completely different issue. If a 52 year old acts like a 6 year old then I wouldn't trust them as an adult.

betsy · June 23, 2016

Why would anyone let their 6 year old daughter make friends with a 52 year old to hang out? Can you present more realistic situations?

Scroll back up.

betsy · June 23, 2016

Ted Bundy harmed others, exactly what I pointed out is what I have problems with.

Knowing someone for a year is meaningless, how well did I know them and what did I learn? I don't know what you mean by a sleep-over. Generally I would wonder about a 6 year old having a sleepover with any 52 year old (straight, gay, bisexual, transgender, whatever). If a 52 year old identifies as a pre-schooler, then that has nothing to do with sexual identity that is a completely different issue. If a 52 year old acts like a 6 year old then I wouldn't trust them as an adult.

Whether Ted Bundy harmed others or not, is not the point. He was a contributing member of society.

I'm simply following with your explanation about people being "wired" to think/feel the way they do. If this transgendered 52-year old man thinks and feels he's 6 years old - by your explanation - we should accept that.

It's the same issue. It could be also sexual - the other side of pedophilia, perhaps? Maybe he wants to be the "child!"

Or maybe the sexual thing is "experimenting" with another 6 year old - like, playing doctor?

You heard of women who are into rough sex (including simulation of getting raped) - hey, we should be aware of every depravities - opps, sorry. I mean, "preferences" - that used to be really taboo! What's the difference with him....except that he's gone steps farther (he really got into the fantasy role)!

If you think there's nothing psychologically wrong with that person - just like you wouldn't have any problem agreeing with a transgenedered person that he's what he believes he is - then you shouldn't have any problems agreeing with this

52 year old man that he's 6 years old, right?

Will you let your 6 year old daughter hang out with "her?"

Edited June 23, 2016 by betsy

GostHacked · June 23, 2016

No, not even close. Equality has never been reached, and now we are in a period of extreme gynocentrism.

What the F is gynocentrism?

?Impact · June 23, 2016

Whether Ted Bundy harmed others or not, is not the point. He was a contributing member of society.

...

Will you let your 6 year old daughter hang out with "her?"

No, the fact that Ted Bundy harmed others is exactly the point. There are many people who were previously contributing members of society that began to harm people, and once they crossed that line then we need to take acton. In some of those people there were clear warning signs before, while in others they seemed to suddenly snap. The problem is pickup up the right warning signs and taking action before. We know that sexual preference is not a credible warning sign, could you point out why sexual identity should be?

...

You obviously totally ignored what I said about trust.

Edited June 23, 2016 by ?Impact

betsy · June 23, 2016

No, the fact that Ted Bundy harmed others is exactly the point. There are many people who were previously contributing members of society that began to harm people, and once they crossed that line then we need to take acton. In some of those people there were clear warning signs before, while in others they seemed to suddenly snap. The problem is pickup up the right warning signs and taking action before. We know that sexual preference is not a credible warning sign, could you point out why sexual identity should be?

...

You obviously totally ignored what I said about trust.

I don't disagree with your view on Ted Bundy and crossing the line - but I have never said that transgender/gays are not contributing members of society.

You brought up contrbuting members of society - being a contributing member of society, is not the issue. That's all I'm saying. So, let's drop this now since it's irrelevant.

-------------------------------

Sexual preference can be a credible warning sign. Let me ask you:

If your friend confided to you that he thinks he is a pedophile since he's having fantasies about children (but he'd never enacted his fantasies)......will you have him babysit your children?

--------------------------------

I did not ignore your message about trust. You said it has to be earned. Thus I asked if you'd known him for a year....would you let your daughter hang out with him?

How does this 52 year old transgender who believes he's a 6 year old girl earn your trust? Cite what he can do to earn it.

Edited June 23, 2016 by betsy

betsy · June 23, 2016

Generally I would wonder about a 6 year old having a sleepover with any 52 year old (straight, gay, bisexual, transgender, whatever). If a 52 year old identifies as a pre-schooler, then that has nothing to do with sexual identity that is a completely different issue. If a 52 year old acts like a 6 year old then I wouldn't trust them as an adult.

Whether it's sexual or not, it's the same issue!

You're saying their brains are wired. Why do you think brain-wiring is limited to sexual identity?

Edited June 23, 2016 by betsy

?Impact · June 23, 2016

If your friend confided to you that he thinks he is a pedophile since he's having fantasies about children (but he'd never enacted his fantasies)......will you have him babysit your children?

...

How does this 52 year old transgender who believes he's a 6 year old girl earn your trust? Cite what he can do to earn it.

Why do you think brain-wiring is limited to sexual identity?

If I had a friend that think he is going to commit suicide, I would be concerned. No different if he thought he was a pedophile, that would raise a red flag.

...

A 52 year old man that thinks he's a 6 year old boy is going to have just as many problems earning anyones trust. This is not about sexual identity, it is about maturity. I wouldn't leave a 52 year old who thinks he/is 6 alone with another 6 year old, period. I also wouldn't leave two 6 year olds alone either.

jacee · June 23, 2016

I don't disagree with your view on Ted Bundy and crossing the line - but I have never said that transgender/gays are not contributing members of society.

You brought up contrbuting members of society - being a contributing member of society, is not the issue. That's all I'm saying. So, let's drop this now since it's irrelevant.

-------------------------------

Sexual preference can be a credible warning sign. Let me ask you:

If your friend confided to you that he thinks he is a pedophile since he's having fantasies about children (but he'd never enacted his fantasies)......will you have him babysit your children?

--------------------------------

I did not ignore your message about trust. You said it has to be earned. Thus I asked if you'd known him for a year....would you let your daughter hang out with him?

How does this 52 year old transgender who believes he's a 6 year old girl earn your trust? Cite what he can do to earn it.

Betsy ... when you conjure up 'pedophile' in discussions of gay or transgender ... you just display your extreme ignorance.

.

Edited June 23, 2016 by jacee

betsy · June 24, 2016

This is not about sexual identity, it is about maturity.

That's the thing, isn't it? Brain-wiring (as to your explanation), is not limited to sexual.

If he identifies as a 6 year old girl, he isn't anything different than a man who identifies as a woman.

They're both about identity!

You can't conclude his fixation as a 6 year old girl isn't related to sexuality, either.

Edited June 24, 2016 by betsy

betsy · June 24, 2016

Betsy ... when you conjure up 'pedophile' in discussions of gay or transgender ... you just display your extreme ignorance.

.

:rolleyes:

So far, it's been you who's been throwing around ridiculous statements like Santa throws candies on Christmas Day!

Did you even read what Impact and I are talking about? Let me guess.......no.

You see the term "pedophile" in a thread about transgender - and that's the trigger for you.

What? Where does it say that we can't bring up that term in any gay or transgender threads?

What book of law do you read? The Book of Law from the Nonsensical La-La Land?

Or....The Laws from the Twilight Zone?

Edited June 24, 2016 by betsy

dialamah · June 24, 2016

@Betsy ... accepting differences in people doesn't mean you have to do or not do certain things with them. As long as the 52-year-old little girl wasn't harming anyone, I don't feel a need to object to them, even if I disagree with their particular schtick. Whether they could associate with myself and my family would depend on how I felt about them as a person, how well I knew them, whether I trusted them not to impose their schtick on my kids.

It's kind of similar to how I feel about Christians: I don't agree with their particular schtick, but whether I or my children will associate with any individual depends entirely on how I feel about them as a person - how well I know them, whether I trust them not to impose their schtick on my kids.

Accepting someone doesn't mean one has to become best buddies with them, hang out with them or have them spend the night. It simply means you allow them to live their life free from harassment and Judgement. You can even accept people you don't like, since acceptance merely means they have the right to live their life as they see fit, as long as they are not causing harm to others. That was the message I took from the command 'thou shall not judge' back in my Christian days, and it's what I still try to follow.

Edited June 24, 2016 by dialamah