Wither Europe

Argus · May 7, 2016

The whiny technocrats of the EU have negotiated a 'deal' with the Turks to allow them to return hundreds of thousands of phony refugees. But only in exchange for allowing the Turks to send them just as many 'legitimate' refugees back again, along with giving their own citizens visa free travel to Europe. This was a virtual surrendering to the notion that wishy washy Europe has no ability to stop the flow of refugees and must delegate it to harder hearted governments

But even that deal was crushed the other day. Turkey's autocratic president, who has been gradually eliminating all vestiges of democracy and freedom there, turned down the deal, forcing his prime minister to resign. What he didn't like was the EU daring to complain about his dictatorial ways. Erdogan labels anyone who disagrees with him a terrorist, and the agreement, negotiated by the prime minister, promised Turkey would narrow its definition of the term. Erdogan would have none of that. The Sultan of the new Ottoman Empire, as he sees himself, brooks no opposition in any form.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36229468

What that means is Turkey will wind up encouraging the millions of Syrians, Iraqis, Afghanis, Yemenis and others who have crossed its border to cross the Aegean to Europe. Why wouldn't he? It also fits with his Islamist beliefs in helping to spread Islam to the rest of the world.

Europe needs to grow a spine if it is going to survive. The more who come the more who will want to come. By any measure, life is infinitely better in Europe than anywhere south of it. The millions will not stop if they think they will be able to make it and be accepted there. What's more if the world actually does warm then the economic lifestyle of those down south is only going to deteriorate further, producing more refugees.

Europe has the resources to protect its borders from the millions of third world migrants who are flooding north, but lacks the will. It could, if necessary, send out fleets of coast guard vessels to turn back migrant boats once they leave Turkish and African waters, but the hand-wringing progressives who hold most of the levers of power are afraid of being seen as cruel, or worse, racist.

The fact is that the cultural baggage the millions of refugees are bringing with them is inimical to western values We've already seen that from those who preceded them to England, France, Germany, Sweden and Belgium. Allowing untold millions more to settle, all from the most socially conservative and culturally backward part of the Muslim world, is a cultural time bomb in the making.

That most of these people have no money and no applicable skillset for the European job market means they will require enormous amounts of funding, perhaps indefinitely, just to survive in Europe, and even then many are destined to expand the already existing Muslim slums filled with anger and resentment. And once there they will continue to have large families, four or five children, in a land where one is the norm. That is both a cultural and an economic time bomb.

It is one thing to be kind hearted in accepting a few refugees, and quite another to help pay for your own country to be colonized and your own culture and values trampled.

kimmy · May 7, 2016

One of the things that came to light in the aftermath of the New Year's Eve debacle is that a large number of the "refugees" entering Germany aren't from Syria at all, they're North Africans who aren't fleeing anything but rather abusing the refugee claim system because they want a better lifestyle. Germany rejects over 97% of refugee claims from these lifestyle tourists, who keep living in Germany anyway, because the authorities apparently have no idea how to send them back.

-k

Argus · May 7, 2016

One of the things that came to light in the aftermath of the New Year's Eve debacle is that a large number of the "refugees" entering Germany aren't from Syria at all, they're North Africans who aren't fleeing anything but rather abusing the refugee claim system because they want a better lifestyle. Germany rejects over 97% of refugee claims from these lifestyle tourists, who keep living in Germany anyway, because the authorities apparently have no idea how to send them back.

Problems like that are only going to get worse. Once the word gets out - and it has gotten out -- that if you get to Europe you won't be kicked out and will be given a place to stay, food, clothes, language lessons, schools for the kids, etc., well OF COURSE millions are going to go. I would too. It might seem hard hearted to say it, but sometimes you have to be hard hearted and put your foot down and say no more. Send out the navy and turn them back.

Queenmandy85 · May 7, 2016

History is not always an accurate predictor of coming events but it can give us some indications.

A rapid growth of European nationalist parties could topple current governments and introduce an ethnic cleansing to remove people of african, middle eastern and asian descent from Europe. Those who do not leave could see a replay of the 'final solution.'

OTOH, usually, the newcomers successfully overwhelm the local inhabitants.

OTOH part two, maybe it will all come about peacefully. The only thing I know for certain, is I cannot predict the future and, I suspect, neither can anyone else...except by accident. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

eyeball · May 7, 2016

Erdogan labels anyone who disagrees with him a terrorist

So does Stephen Harper...is there a point to this thread?

Ah...never mind I found it...

It is one thing to be kind hearted in accepting a few refugees, and quite another to help pay for your own country to be colonized and your own culture and values trampled.

Argus never misses an opportunity to flog his pet peeves does he?

Edited May 7, 2016 by eyeball

eyeball · May 7, 2016

One of the things that came to light in the aftermath of the New Year's Eve debacle is that a large number of the "refugees" entering Germany aren't from Syria at all, they're North Africans who aren't fleeing anything but rather abusing the refugee claim system because they want a better lifestyle.

-k

Argus is way ahead of you...even if he's just caught on.

What's more if the world actually does warm then the economic lifestyle of those down south is only going to deteriorate further, producing more refugees.

Now it's a Convenient Truth to cite climate change.

In any case and not that it really matters but right-wingers were warned about climate change refugees long before they were warned about blowback refugees.

These sorts of threads are hilarious.

jacee · May 8, 2016

It is one thing to be kind hearted in accepting a few refugees, and quite another to help pay for your own country to be colonized and your own culture and values trampled.

There oughtta be laws that when multinational corporations push people off their land to rape and pillage resources in their countries, those people are invited to emigrate to whatever country the corporation is registered in.

That would clarify responsibility for displaced people.

EG 75% of international mining companies register in Canada - because of our lax laws and enforcement, and they have the worst human rights record in the world - so we may have to up our immigration numbers to take responsibility for our fair share.

Are those the Canadian 'values' you mean?

.

Edit to add ... I'm still trying to figure out the thread title:

Did you really mean "wither"?

Did you perhaps mean 'whither'?

Or did you mean 'whiter'?

??

Edited May 8, 2016 by jacee

May 8, 2016

There oughtta be laws that when multinational corporations push people off their land to rape and pillage resources in their countries, those people are invited to emigrate to whatever country the corporation is registered in.

Wouldn't they all have to go to the Cayman Islands?

scribblet · May 9, 2016

The migrant invasion of Europe has nothing to do with climate change... In this case among many others they are economic migrants looking for better jobs, but they won't find any. Neither will they qualify as refugees so will likely be sent packing.. There are not enough jobs or money for countries to support them. If Europe doesn't grow a spine, it will no longer exist as we know it in about 10 - 15 years.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/may/06/gambian-migrants-who-risk-death-find-life-less-than-sweet-in-italy

eyeball · May 9, 2016

The migrant invasion of Europe has nothing to do with climate change... In this case among many others they are economic migrants looking for better jobs, but they won't find any.

They're refugees from an economy whose failure has clearly been exacerbated by climate change but I'm guessing that sounds like Martian to you. In any case you were warned this would happen decades ago. Entire animal and plant communities are migrating north and south in response to climate change - why wouldn't our species react the same way?

You haven't btw, seen anything yet.

May 9, 2016

You haven't btw, seen anything yet.

You got that right...

jacee · May 9, 2016

Wouldn't they all have to go to the Cayman Islands?

So be it. :-)

There has to be responsibility for the actions of companies, across borders.

.

poochy · May 9, 2016

They're refugees from an economy whose failure has clearly been exacerbated by climate change but I'm guessing that sounds like Martian to you. In any case you were warned this would happen decades ago. Entire animal and plant communities are migrating north and south in response to climate change - why wouldn't our species react the same way?

You haven't btw, seen anything yet.

Plus you know, the wars, the death cults, terrible water management and land use policies, and your normal everyday drought. Climate change is a tiny part of that problem, just as it is for the fire in Alberta, but you don't want to talk about that, reality doesn't further your politics.

eyeball · May 9, 2016

Death cults caused the fire Alberta?

May 9, 2016

Death cults caused the fire Alberta?

I bet it was an ATV...

DogOnPorch · May 9, 2016

I bet it was an ATV...

15km outside Ft McMurray in a remote area....no lightning at the time, apparently.

scribblet · May 9, 2016

They're refugees from an economy whose failure has clearly been exacerbated by climate change but I'm guessing that sounds like Martian to you. In any case you were warned this would happen decades ago. Entire animal and plant communities are migrating north and south in response to climate change - why wouldn't our species react the same way?

You haven't btw, seen anything yet.

Really... Ever since I can remember there has been drought, famine and starvation in Africa, nothing to do with climate change. But that might sound Martian to you too...

eyeball · May 10, 2016

What sounds so alien about the idea that climate change would make drought, famine and starvation worse and even a permanent condition? I remember when starvation and famine were also something people were seriously trying to do something about and appeared to be succeeding at overcoming - around the time the world also appeared to be getting serious about the climate change we were driving.

Then it all went down the toilet.

Now that food prices are rising everywhere, due to the worsening effects of climate change everywhere, starvation and famine are back and it's move to where the food is or die. Put yourself in their shoes or that of any other organism faced with the same stark choice. It's inevitable, there's no turning back from the course we're all on now and you really haven't seen anything yet.

You're really ill-prepared for this aren't you?

scribblet · May 10, 2016

....

You're really ill-prepared for this aren't you?

No more or less than some people think they are.

The migrants from Africa are not refugees, the EU VP confirmed it saying the majority are economic 'refugees' and have no reason whatsoever to request refugee status. They are also taking up resources which could be used for the genuine refugees.

eyeball · May 10, 2016

Yeah well, the EU VP has only confirmed that Europeans are just as ill-prepared for what's happening. Labels aren't going to stop the tsunami of human beings that's building over there, it's going to take a wall of warships crewed by inhumane beings. You're telling me you're prepared for that?

Bonam · May 10, 2016

Yeah well, the EU VP has only confirmed that Europeans are just as ill-prepared for what's happening. Labels aren't going to stop the tsunami of human beings that's building over there, it's going to take a wall of warships crewed by inhumane beings. You're telling me you're prepared for that?

What else are warships for if not to keep borders secure?

eyeball · May 10, 2016

They're good for mounting a relief effort but I'm guessing that's not in the works.

PIK · May 10, 2016

I see we are trying to deport a Palestinian terrorist who is a refugee from Sweden. How many other has snuck in ,in the liberals rush to use them for political points.

scribblet · May 10, 2016

Yeah well, the EU VP has only confirmed that Europeans are just as ill-prepared for what's happening. Labels aren't going to stop the tsunami of human beings that's building over there, it's going to take a wall of warships crewed by inhumane beings. You're telling me you're prepared for that?

I'm not telling you anything other than what has been said about the migrant invaders. True Europe is not prepared to take in millions of migrants and recent events from the Euro news tells us that women are not prepared in particular. I'm not prepared to dress more modestly so as not to upset someone from another culture... as a woman I am certainly not prepared to accept much of what has been happening in Europe. If it takes warships etc., so be it.