America under President Trump

Boges · July 20, 2020

59 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Correction: because of our extremely low population density

Is that your new talking point?

If you take Canada's land mass and our population then yeah, I suppose we're not terribly populated.

But Southern Ontario and Southern Quebec is actually quite populated and that's where COVID has actually taken a foothold. But no where near what's been seen in comparable parts of the US.

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We just have to tough it out. It's like a war for the survival of our country, but instead of a bunch of 17-20 yr-olds dying it's 80+.

.05% of the population is going to die. Helathy people have a .001% chance of dying from ths. That's life.

What about people 60+? What about young people that aren't completely healthy? Bleep Em?

Please cite 001% of healthy people not dying from this. And even if they don't die, plenty are spending significant time in the hospital.

Boges · July 20, 2020

51 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Nonsense. You're talking about something completely different.

I never said they are worse. But they aren't much better. Unlike every other Developed nation that has this disease under control and is re-opening anyway.

The actual Fatality rate is impossible to calculate because we don't know exactly how many people are.

Deaths per million is a good way to establish that the US doesn't actually have that bad a death rate. But that can't be the only metric to evaluate the severity of the outbreak.

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You're assuming things are worse than they are then giving your theory as to why that might be and insinuating Trump is the cause.

What we're seen (California is the outlier) is that states that didn't suffer too badly from the initial outbreak opened very fast. And now they're suffering from a worse resurgence of the virus.

What's a better outcome for the economy. Rushing to be the first to re-open only to have to pause or roll-back re-opening because of a second wave?

Or what's been seen in Europe and Canada where the rate of the disease was taken down to very low levels and the economy has slowly re-opened.

Most of Ontario will be at Phase 3 of Opening at the end of the week (Meaning Gyms and indoor dining). That was achieved without the crush of hospitalization that states like Arizona, Florida and Texas saw. And those states may have to shut down to stave off an infection that's growing out of control.

They've certainly had to be more authoritarian about mask wearing than other places that adopted mask wearing without much protest.

WestCanMan · July 20, 2020

39 minutes ago, Boges said:

Is that your new talking point?

If you take Canada's land mass and our population then yeah, I suppose we're not terribly populated.

I've explained the exact same things to you many times but you don't get it. Now aparently you don't even remember.

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But Southern Ontario and Southern Quebec is actually quite populated and that's where COVID has actually taken a foothold. But no where near what's been seen in comparable parts of the US.

You have no understanding whatsoever of the significance of population density regarding the spread of a pandemic. 1/3 of the population of Ontario rides the NYC subway every day.

If you took the population of the entire world and spread it evenly across Jupiter you'd be lucky if 3 people could infect 10 other people in a week. If you take 100,000 people and put them in a skating rink 3 people could infect 100,00 people within 12 hrs. There's no comparing dense populations to lightly-populated areas, at all.

The parts of the US that you're calling comparable to Ontario and Quebec aren't comparable at all.

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What about people 60+? What about young people that aren't completely healthy? Bleep Em?

Please cite 001% of healthy people not dying from this. And even if they don't die, plenty are spending significant time in the hospital.

There's no scenario where lots of people don't die. You just have to pick and choose who they are. That's life.

Do extremely sick/elderly people die from covid right now, or do you destroy the economy and see how many people die from the fallout of that? It's one or the other. Don't be a wimp. This isn't a time for weak decisions.

Boges · July 20, 2020

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I've explained the exact same things to you many times but you don't get it. Now aparently you don't even remember.

You have no understanding whatsoever of the significance of population density regarding the spread of a pandemic. 1/3 of the population of Ontario rides the NYC subway every day.

If you took the population of the entire world and spread it evenly across Jupiter you'd be lucky if 3 people could infect 10 other people in a week. If you take 100,000 people and put them in a skating rink 3 people could infect 100,00 people within 12 hrs. There's no comparing dense populations to lightly-populated areas, at all.

Yeah, but then you were talking about New York City. The initial North American epicentre.

Now we can compare states to provinces.

Arizona has four times more cases than Ontario. And a comparable number of deaths. It has half the population of Ontario
Texas has 10 times more cases than Ontario with more deaths. (Note: that a vast majority of Ontario's deaths came when treatments weren't nearly as good and to a vast majority of people in LTC homes). Texas is twice the population of Ontario.
Florida has about 6 million more than Ontario. Also 10 times more cases and more deaths than Ontario. Same consideration to deaths as with Texas.

Also note that there is no city in those states that have the population density of Toronto. Not Houston, not Dallas, not Miami, not Phoenix. They have cities with larger CMAs, but you've framed your argument all on population density.

Also note that Ontario never had more than 2,000 people hospitalized and never had a daily case count above 1,000. Today it had 135 new cases.

To talk about Canada's population density, when a sizeable percentage is uninhabitable tundra, is completely disingenuous. Close to half of Canada's population live close to the US border from Windsor to Quebec City. And those areas were hit by COVID-19. Just not nearly as bad as the US.

Because of good public health policy.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Boges

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Because of good public health policy.

Then why does Canada have more COVID deaths than California, which has a higher population and density ?

Boges · July 20, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Then why does Canada have more COVID deaths than California, which has a higher population and density ?

I noted that a majority of deaths in Canada came early in the outbreak. Older people, less viable treatments.

And as you like to point out, over and over again. 80% were people in LTC homes.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

1 minute ago, Boges said:

I noted that a majority of deaths in Canada came early in the outbreak. Older people, less viable treatments.

And as you like to point out, over and over again. 80% were people in LTC homes.

So public health policy not so great, eh ?

Screw old people ?

Boges · July 20, 2020

The population density argument is completely thrown out the window when considering Florida.

Top 10 cities in Ontario: http://www.top10cities.net/country/canada-ontario-admin.php

Top 10 cities in Florida: https://www.moving.com/tips/the-10-largest-cities-in-florida/

Five Ontario cities are larger than Miami proper.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

1 minute ago, Boges said:

The population density argument is completely thrown out the window when considering Florida.

Tell that to all the "experts" at the World Health Organization.

President Trump was right to defund those clowns.

Boges · July 20, 2020

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So public health policy not so great, eh ?

Screw old people ?

This is the new tactic and it's hilarious. Compare COVID numbers in the Spring to COVID numbers now.

Hey our number are better than Italy! So we're doing great! Except Italy's death rate happened when people didn't know WTF to do. And they shut down for months to beat the disease.

A vast majority of Canadian deaths happened early in the Outbreak. Deaths now are a few dozen a day, if that.

Most of the world has figured this disease out. Except in the Southern US. Freedom to Party and not wear masks is more important.

Boges · July 20, 2020

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

Tell that to all the "experts" at the World Health Organization.

President Trump was right to defund those clowns.

That has nothing to do with what I posted. But OK.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

Just now, Boges said:

That has nothing to do with what I posted. But OK.

This is a Trump thread...not COVID...but you don't care !

Boges · July 20, 2020

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

This is a Trump thread...not COVID...but you don't care !

I framed this around Trump. He minimized the virus' severity dozens of time. Lied about having it under control and told states to re-open before they were ready.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

I framed this around Trump. He minimized the virus' severity dozens of time. Lied about having it under control and told states to re-open before they were ready.

So what ? States are controlled by governors, not Trump.

Boges · July 20, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So what ? States are controlled by governors, not Trump.

You don't think "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and threatening to withhold funding if schools don't open have their effect.

The three states that are suffering most right now are run by Trump acolytes that opened their states too early.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Boges

Cannucklehead · July 20, 2020

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

You don't think "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and threatening to withhold funding if schools don't open have their effect.

The three states that are suffering most right now are run by Trump acolytes that opened their states too early.

Didn't he try to do the same thing with churches? The other day I read about an outbreak in missouri that has kids from all across the u.s. attending. Great idea.

Boges · July 20, 2020

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Didn't he try to do the same thing with churches? The other day I read about an outbreak in missouri that has kids from all across the u.s. attending. Great idea.

- And Political Rallies indoors, hoping to get 20,000 people.

- Only wearing a mask in a Hospital. ONCE!

- Disagreeing with his Public Health Officials.

- Muzzling the CDC and Anthony Fauci.

WestCanMan · July 20, 2020

41 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yeah, but then you were talking about New York City. The initial North American epicentre.

Now we can compare states to provinces.

Arizona has four times more cases than Ontario. And a comparable number of deaths. It has half the population of Ontario

Texas has 10 times more cases than Ontario with more deaths. (Note: that a vast majority of Ontario's deaths came when treatments weren't nearly as good and to a vast majority of people in LTC homes). Texas is twice the population of Ontario.

Florida has about 6 million more than Ontario. Also 10 times more cases and more deaths than Ontario. Same consideration to deaths as with Texas.

Also note that there is no city in those states that have the population density of Toronto. Not Houston, not Dallas, not Miami, not Phoenix. They have cities with larger CMAs, but you've framed your argument all on population density.

Also note that Ontario never had more than 2,000 people hospitalized and never had a daily case count above 1,000. Today it had 135 new cases.

To talk about Canada's population density, when a sizeable percentage is uninhabitable tundra, is completely disingenuous. Close to half of Canada's population live close to the US border from Windsor to Quebec City. And those areas were hit by COVID-19. Just not nearly as bad as the US.

Because of good public health policy.

Case rates are due to higher testing numbers in the States. Deaths are the only things that really count, and now we're becoming aware of fraudulent death reporting to bump up covid death totals.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/25/coronavirus-death-toll-hard-track-1-3-death-certificates-wrong/3020778001/

Cause of death has always been inaccurate.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

You don't think "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and threatening to withhold funding if schools don't open have their effect.

The three states that are suffering most right now are run by Trump acolytes that opened their states too early.

Why should the feds provide funding for students not in class ?

Trump does not open or close any states...he does not control where masks are required....he does not control retail, bars, or restaurants.

States decide when and how much to open.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

- And Political Rallies indoors, hoping to get 20,000 people.

- Only wearing a mask in a Hospital. ONCE!

- Disagreeing with his Public Health Officials.

- Muzzling the CDC and Anthony Fauci.

...but protests and riots are OK, right ?

Boges · July 20, 2020

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

...but protests and riots are OK, right ?

I'll do you one better, how about protesting mask wearing?

Cannucklehead · July 20, 2020

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

...but protests and riots are OK, right ?

Why not? Anti lockdown happened in April and in michigan the capitol was occupied at gun point.

Boges · July 20, 2020

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Why should the feds provide funding for students not in class ?

Trump does not open or close any states...he does not control where masks are required....he does not control retail, bars, or restaurants.

States decide when and how much to open.

Here's a rundown on things Trump failed to do.

And this was before these recent spikes.

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/8/21242003/trump-failed-coronavirus-response

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2020

1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Why not? Anti lockdown happened in April and in michigan the capitol was occupied at gun point.

We don't get to pick and choose which constitutional rights are protected for U.S. citizens.

That means guns, free speech (including hate speech), religion/churches too...not just protests.

That might fly in Canada, but Trump knows better for the USA.

Boges · July 20, 2020

If one thinks that protests aren't appropriate in the COVID climate, the must then concede that indoor dining, going to the Gym and bars aren't either.