America under President Trump

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

6 hours ago, dialamah said:

If I say to someone, "I want your loyalty", personal is implied even if not explicitly stated.

When my boss says to me "I hope you'll be able to do this" I know he doesn't mean "but it's fine if you don't."

Are you saying Comey should have found a way to follow Trump's directive?

You may be right that this will lead no where, but it makes it obvious that Trump has no compunction about using his considerable power and authority to influence the American justice system in his favor. His supporters have two choices here: admitting Trump is corrupt or admitting he's an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

When my boss says "he hopes", I usually...actually always express to him that "I can" or "I can not do that". You know, have a grown up conversation and to guage exactly what he means and exactly what I can do about that "hope". Unlike Comey, I don't assume anything.

Omni · June 9, 2017

2 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

When my boss says "he hopes", I usually...actually always express to him that "I can" or "I can not do that". You know, have a grown up conversation and to guage exactly what he means and exactly what I can do about that "hope". Unlike Comey, I don't assume anything.

That resolves nada. But I would ask this,who's responsibility is it to clarify, the employee or the boss?

OftenWrong · June 9, 2017

35 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Why did Obama choose these countries? The ones in "Trump's Muslim Ban", that is.

Please, you're causing a disturbance in the matrix.

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

4 minutes ago, Omni said:

That resolves nada. But I would ask this,who's responsibility is it to clarify, the employee or the boss?

Good question. It's the responsibility of the person being spoken to, the person who is not quite sure of the situation.

Comment: "I hope you can see clear to let him go"...

Response: "I understand that you haven't been made clear of the details, Mr President, however this is a very serious matter that we have to proceed with. I assure you though, Mr. Flynn will be treated as fairly as possible".

Or, "Excuse me Mr President, but it's inappropriate for us to be discussing an open investigation in private".

Anything but silence.

Omni · June 9, 2017

2 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

It's the responsibility of the person being spoken to

Ah nope, it's the responsibility of the person making the suggestion to clarify the intention.

Wilber · June 9, 2017

4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Or, "Excuse me Mr President, but it's inappropriate for us to be discussing an open investigation in private".

Ya it was, and who's idea was that?

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

Look, do I think Trump tried to put his finger on the scale? - Possibly. I mean, to a point, hasn't everybody from the local police chief all the way to and including Barack Obama. Or, he could have been offering up his opinion...or his feelings - who knows for sure? Comey can express his feelings, why cant Trump?

What I do know is this; there is not even close to enough evidence to do diddly squat about it. Except feign outrage.

And, as for the "loyalty" crap, didn't Trudeau demand loyalty of his people?

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

4 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Ya it was, and who's idea was that?

I think Comey set the standard for one-on-one talks with Trump though.

Wilber · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

And, as for the "loyalty" crap, didn't Trudeau demand loyalty of his people?

What people and loyal to who?

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

Ah nope, it's the responsibility of the person making the suggestion to clarify the intention.

NO, If a person disagrees or isn't quite sure of the implications, they need to speak up.

Did Trump give a wink wink or brush his finger to his nose as he spoke? Now that would be proof.

Wilber · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

I think Comey set the standard for one-on-one talks with Trump though.

I think Trump set the standard for one on one talks with an FBI head. Comey said that in three years he only had talks twice with Obama and never on the phone.

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

I think Trump set the standard for one on one talks with an FBI head. Comey said that in three years he only had talks twice with Obama and never on the phone.

In Comey's testimony, he says that the first time they met, he waited for everyone to leave, then proceeded to have a private conversation with Trump

Omni · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

NO, If a person disagrees or isn't quite sure of the implications, they need to speak up.

Did Trump give a wink wink or brush his finger to his nose as he spoke? Now that would be proof.

It is certainly important that there be clarification on important issues, and both participants (or all) need to strive for that. There is a training syllabus I am aware of that pilots go through called "cockpit resource management". The purpose basically is to ensure that everybody is on the same page. And the captain bears the final responsibility to ensure that prevails. Between Comey and Trump, who do you reckon is the captain with that responsibility?

OftenWrong · June 9, 2017

11 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

And, as for the "loyalty" crap, didn't Trudeau demand loyalty of his people?

Mr. Comey was FBI director under the Obama administration. It's my understanding that it's pretty common to replace any or all of the executive staff when there is a change of government in the USA. It is not mandatory of course, and comes under the new administrations discretion. Demanding loyalty of Comey in this context is pretty reasonable.

Omni · June 9, 2017

4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

In Comey's testimony, he says that the first time they met, he waited for everyone to leave, then proceeded to have a private conversation with Trump

If we are talking about the same time frame here, Comey quite clearly states the trump ordered everyone else out. Lordy I hope there are tapes too.

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Mr. Comey was FBI director under the Obama administration. It's my understanding that it's pretty common to replace any or all of the executive staff when there is a change of government in the USA. It is not mandatory of course, and comes under the new administrations discretion. Demanding loyalty of Comey in this context is pretty reasonable.

Considering the circumstances and what Comey went through during the election, So is asking him if he still likes/wants his job.

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

Just now, Omni said:

If we are talking about the same time frame here, Comey quite clearly states the trump ordered everyone else out. Lordy I hope there are tapes too.

But that wasn't the first meeting. The first meeting, Comey intentionally sets up a situation whereas he could talk to the President alone. For all Trump knew, this is how Comey prefers to work.

Omni · June 9, 2017

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Mr. Comey was FBI director under the Obama administration. It's my understanding that it's pretty common to replace any or all of the executive staff when there is a change of government in the USA. It is not mandatory of course, and comes under the new administrations discretion. Demanding loyalty of Comey in this context is pretty reasonable.

Your understanding is totally wrong then. People such as FBI director are appointed for 10 years for the very reason they can rise above partisan politics in their duties.

OftenWrong · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

Considering the circumstances and what Comey went through during the election, So is asking him if he still likes/wants his job.

Trump should have dismissed everybody, get the dead wood out. It was naive to keep people in such a rabidly partisan environment. Mistake

Wilber · June 9, 2017

8 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

In Comey's testimony, he says that the first time they met, he waited for everyone to leave, then proceeded to have a private conversation with Trump

That's true about the February 14th meeting he said this.

Quote

General, and I were in the semi-circle of chairs. I was directly facing the President, sitting between the Deputy CIA Director and the Director of NCTC. There were quite a few others in the room, sitting behind us on couches and chairs.

The President signaled the end of the briefing by thanking the group and telling them all that he wanted to speak to me alone. I stayed in my chair. As the participants started to leave the Oval Office, the Attorney General lingered by my chair, but the President thanked him and said he wanted to speak only with me. The last person to leave was Jared Kushner, who also stood by my chair and exchanged pleasantries with me. The President then excused him, saying he wanted to speak with me.

When the door by the grandfather clock closed, and we were alone, the President began by saying, “I want to talk about Mike Flynn.” Flynn had resigned the previous day. The President began by saying Flynn hadn’t done anything wrong in speaking with the Russians, but he had to let him go because he had misled the Vice President. He added that he had other concerns about Flynn, which he did not then specify.

The President then made a long series of comments about the problem with leaks of classified information – a concern I shared and still share. After he had spoken for a few minutes about leaks, Reince Priebus leaned in through the door by the grandfather clock and I could see a group of people waiting behind him. The President waved at him to close the door, saying he would be done shortly. The door closed.

The President then returned to the topic of Mike Flynn, saying, “He is a good guy and has been through a lot.” He repeated that Flynn hadn’t done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled tOn February 14, I went to the Oval Office for a scheduled counter-terrorism briefing of the President. He sat behind the desk and a group of us sat in a semicircle of about six chairs facing him on the other side of the desk. The Vice President, Deputy Director of the CIA, Director of the National CounterTerrorism Center, Secretary of Homeland Security, the Attorneyhe Vice President. He then said, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” I replied only that “he is a good guy.” (In fact, I had a positive experience dealing with Mike Flynn when he was a colleague as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at the beginning of my term at FBI.) I did not say I would “let this go.”

The President returned briefly to the problem of leaks. I then got up and left out the door by the grandfather clock, making my way through the large group of people waiting there, including Mr. Priebus and the Vice President.

The request for loyalty was made at a dinner which Trump invited Comey to alone.

OftenWrong · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Omni said:

Your understanding is totally wrong then. People such as FBI director are appointed for 10 years for the very reason they can rise above partisan politics in their duties.

They can be dismissed by the president, as demonstrated.

bush_cheney2004 · June 9, 2017

All Comey's testimony proved is that Comey is a leaker.

Omni · June 9, 2017

1 minute ago, Hal 9000 said:

But that wasn't the first meeting. The first meeting, Comey intentionally sets up a situation whereas he could talk to the President alone. For all Trump knew, this is how Comey prefers to work.

Boy you must have some inside information that no one else in the world has. Everyone else understands Trump phoned Comey and invited him for dinner, and Comey was surprised to find himself the only invitee, which was totally inappropriate.

Hal 9000 · June 9, 2017

4 minutes ago, Omni said:

It is certainly important that there be clarification on important issues, and both participants (or all) need to strive for that. There is a training syllabus I am aware of that pilots go through called "cockpit resource management". The purpose basically is to ensure that everybody is on the same page. And the captain bears the final responsibility to ensure that prevails. Between Comey and Trump, who do you reckon is the captain with that responsibility?

Well, I would agree in your scenario. However, what is Trump supposed to say "you know what I mean there Jimbo". Now, if Trump did that (with a wink wink), then you really got something. Any lawyer in the land would rip Comey apart for assuming the worst case scenario and dragging someone into court for a miscommunication.