The Canadian NHL hockey teams.

[taxme]

I don't know where to put this topic so I picked this forum.

What a sad situation that not one Canadian NHL hockey team made the NHL playoffs. What happened? How can this be? This has not happened since 1970. This is suppose to be Canada's game. It's down right embarrassing.

Is there a difference as to how our coaches and owners do things compared to how the American owners and coaches, and how they do things? I am beginning to believe that Canadian owners of NHL teams don't know how to pick good coaches or players anymore. Maybe it's because they don't push enough for excellence. There were lots of good Canadian hockey players that have been born in Canada over the years, and yet many seem to have ended up playing for an American team. Is it due to money? I don't know the answer. Maybe someone would like to enlighten me as to what the heck is going on here. Why does it appear as though Canadian teams seem to be going from bad to worse.

[The_Squid]

There is a sports section...

[Accountability Now]

What a sad situation that not one Canadian NHL hockey team made the NHL playoffs. What happened? How can this be? This has not happened since 1970.

To start, there are only 7 CDN teams compared to 23 US teams so right off the start it is three times more likely that an American team will get in.

I don't believe it's a matter of money since there is a salary cap. With all things equal climate does play a factor but in general it's the teams ability to win that draws players. As much as players would love to play in California or Florida, I believe they would come to Edmonton, Calgary or Winnipeg if there was a legitimate chance to win.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe, but until there is a legitimate chance to win, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Buffalo remain as least preferred by NHL players, based on agents.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/18/hockey-players-dont-want-to-play-in-these-cities

[SpankyMcFarland]

The performance of Canadian teams looks worse in recent years. It would be nice to see a statistical analysis.

[Argus]

Costs have a lot to do with it. It costs a lot more to field an NHL team here in Capitalist Canada compared to the Socialist culture in the United States where they play free in state owned facilities.

Another of the major problems used to be television funding. It might still be but I'm unsure. Most of the US money for hockey comes in the form of local TV deals, and that money is not divided with other teams. In Canada, most of the money has always come from the CBC, and it being a network deal that money WAS divided evenly with all other teams. I'm not sure if that's still the case with the Rogers deal but I bet it is since Bettman would not have okayed it if it shut the majority of the teams out of that money source.

Add in the exchange rate fall the last couple of years and an American team with exactly the same revenue as a Canadian team will have $10-$15 million more to spend on players if they so desire. That doesn't guarantee a higher placed finish if you suck at picking the right players, of course, but the odds are sure helped. Toronto and Montreal are the only Canadian teams with enough money to spend in the same category as the others. Toronto perpetually sucks, and Montreal had a very bad year with injuries and confusion after a strong start.

Thirteen NHL teams spent more than $70M on salaries this year, only one of which was Canadian (the Canadiens).

[overthere]

The OIlers haven't gone from bad to worse, they have gone from worst to worster.

Chiarelli will blow it up this summer.

Eberle and Yakupov gone for sure, Hall and Nugent Hopkins are also possibles for the chop.

Edited April 4, 2016 by overthere

[Accountability Now]

Maybe, but until there is a legitimate chance to win, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Buffalo remain as least preferred by NHL players, based on agents.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/18/hockey-players-dont-want-to-play-in-these-cities

The article states that Arizona and Florida are just outside the top 5. It somewhat proves my point as players want to play for a good organization that has a chance of winning. The article may be a bit out of date since the Panthers are doing quite well this year which may trigger more players their way.

The reality is that if you have a crappy climate (like Edmonton and Winnipeg) then you can't have a crappy organization. Edmonton has both.

[Accountability Now]

Eberle and Yakupov gone for sure, Hall and Nugent Hopkins are also possibles for the chop.

Eberle did fairly well with McDavid down the stretch but I agree that it won't be enough to keep him, especially if they can package him up for a good defenseman.

Yakupov will go for a bag of pucks. No way they can have him here next year.

[The_Squid]

The reality is that if you have a crappy climate (like Edmonton and Winnipeg) then you can't have a crappy organization. Edmonton has both.

So does Toronto... Calgary... Winnipeg... Buffalo... Ottawa...

[Big Guy]

When a hockey player signs a long term contract are there stipulations as to the fluctuations in the value of the currency being quoted?

For example, if this year Sam signs a 10 year contract for $5 million a year, is there any stipulation if the Canadian dollar slowly reaches parity with the American or if it falls to 50% of the American dollar?

[overthere]

When a hockey player signs a long term contract are there stipulations as to the fluctuations in the value of the currency being quoted?

For example, if this year Sam signs a 10 year contract for $5 million a year, is there any stipulation if the Canadian dollar slowly reaches parity with the American or if it falls to 50% of the American dollar?

all players are paid in US$. These people are not fools!

[overthere]

The article states that Arizona and Florida are just outside the top 5. It somewhat proves my point as players want to play for a good organization that has a chance of winning. The article may be a bit out of date since the Panthers are doing quite well this year which may trigger more players their way.

The reality is that if you have a crappy climate (like Edmonton and Winnipeg) then you can't have a crappy organization. Edmonton has both.

Not the best examples, since neither Florida or Arizona has won anything ever, and both are constantly on the verge of folding.

Speaking of climate, Edmonton has a glorious summer last year and one of the warmest if not the warmest winter on record.

Edmonton had a crappy organization, but not anymore. They have fired absolutely everybody, from managers to coaches to all the scouting staff to locker room attendants. Now the GM(new) will focus on firing players, or trading them wherever possible.

[Accountability Now]

Not the best examples, since neither Florida or Arizona has won anything ever, and both are constantly on the verge of folding.

I don't think you understand. The article is saying that Florida and Arizona is right in there with the bottom feeders because they are bad organizations....a point that I was making to BushCheney showing that even having a good climate doesn't grant a winner. Essentially your statement above is actually agreeing with what I was saying.

Speaking of climate, Edmonton has a glorious summer last year and one of the warmest if not the warmest winter on record.

I live in Edmonton and I'm very aware of the climate here. Basing our climate on a one year especially an El Nino year does not make your case. The reality is that Edmonton has harsh winters which is the only time that an NHL player needs to live in the city where they play. They are particularly harsh compared to California and Florida teams but even still noticeably worse than many of the other US teams. Even in Canada, Vancouver gets much milder winters than us.

Edmonton had a crappy organization, but not anymore. They have fired absolutely everybody, from managers to coaches to all the scouting staff to locker room attendants. Now the GM(new) will focus on firing players, or trading them wherever possible.

I'm hoping you are right. I think Chiarelli did a decent job in the past so I'm hoping that is the case. I still believe Lowe cursed the Oilers when he signed Penner as an RFA. Its kind of an unwritten rule among GMs to not do that especially with a marginal player.

[overthere]

I don't think you understand. The article is saying that Florida and Arizona is right in there with the bottom feeders because they are bad organizations....a point that I was making to BushCheney showing that even having a good climate doesn't grant a winner. Essentially your statement above is actually agreeing with what I was saying.

I live in Edmonton and I'm very aware of the climate here. Basing our climate on a one year especially an El Nino year does not make your case. The reality is that Edmonton has harsh winters which is the only time that an NHL player needs to live in the city where they play. They are particularly harsh compared to California and Florida teams but even still noticeably worse than many of the other US teams. Even in Canada, Vancouver gets much milder winters than us.

I'm hoping you are right. I think Chiarelli did a decent job in the past so I'm hoping that is the case. I still believe Lowe cursed the Oilers when he signed Penner as an RFA. Its kind of an unwritten rule among GMs to not do that especially with a marginal player.

The free agent issue is just a tiny bit related to climate. There are three groups of free agents. The first are the really good players, who only get to free agency rarely. They can get monster bucks anywhere in the league that can afford them. They'll make their team choice based on opportunity to win mostly, So their only destinations are teams that win, and teams that can afford their huge contract.

SEcond group is the good/OK players, who arrive at free agency more often, usually after their final RFA season. They tend to be overpaid, with teams knowing their body of work but hoping it will get bettter in OurTown. These guys will take the longest and highest paying deals, winning is not as important as getting paid now. Pouliot is in this group for the Oilers. The final group is the marginal and older/fading players, of all skill levels. Their ambition is to get a contract, and longer term is really important to them. Andrew Ference is one of these.

The OIlers, a shit team with no hope of immediate playoff contention are never in the running for the first group, nor are any other shit teams. Edmonton and others are in the running for both of the other group and have signed players in both groups. Agents may give it the old balh de blah about Edmonton not being a destination for their clients, but in reality it is all about the Benjaimins in free agency(except the rare first group player, who wants to play for a team that is winning now and will win again soon)

Oh, and the real curse of Edmonton was Lowe as GM and a truly dreadful scouting staff that passed over so very many fine players in the drafts to pick guys who never played in the NHL after being drafted.

Edited April 6, 2016 by overthere

[Accountability Now]

Agents may give it the old balh de blah about Edmonton not being a destination for their clients, but in reality it is all about the Benjaimins in free agency(except the rare first group player, who wants to play for a team that is winning now and will win again soon)

I don't know. Jagr and Nylander both passed up big bucks to play here for less money elsewhere. And they weren't huge stars.

I think the Oilers need to trade some of these young guys for a true stud defenseman and then try and add in free agency where they can. If the organization is making the impression they are making the proper steps then I think most free agents would think twice.

[Wilber]

I dunno, here the Canucks were about to tie their longest losing streak ever and we were looking at a top five draft pick, then they go on their longest winning streak of the year by beating the top three teams in their division.

[overthere]

I don't know. Jagr and Nylander both passed up big bucks to play here for less money elsewhere. And they weren't huge stars.

I think the Oilers need to trade some of these young guys for a true stud defenseman and then try and add in free agency where they can. If the organization is making the impression they are making the proper steps then I think most free agents would think twice.

I think there is no doubt that every player on the Oilers is now in play, except McDavid. The reason has been obvious for some time: this group does not get it done. I agree that they need at least two defencemen that are better than any they have now.

There are rumours that Subban is available, for example. For the Oilers to get him would take something like Taylor Hall plus a Dman like Nurse, Klefbom or Davidson.

[Accountability Now]

There are rumours that Subban is available, for example. For the Oilers to get him would take something like Taylor Hall plus a Dman like Nurse, Klefbom or Davidson.

I like Subban but I don't know if he's the 'get it done' type either. There must be a reason that a former Norris Trophy winner is continually left out of Team Canada's starter. Having said that, it would be weird seeing him leave Montreal based on all the charity work he does there.

I keep hearing Shea Weber in the Edmonton mix but who knows if that will ever amount to anything.

Side note....I was at the final game last night. That was quite an event! Something that should be humbling for anyone on the current team but maybe not....

[overthere]

The reason is that the coach of all those high performance teams- Babcock- doesn't want higher risk players like Subban. Those teams play hardcore defence, something done to absolute perfection by Canada at the last Olympics. Players like Hall will have similar experiences.

That looked like fun on TV. I was surprised that Kevin Lowe got a big cheer when introduced. I guess he is forgiven.

[Accountability Now]

The reason is that the coach of all those high performance teams- Babcock- doesn't want higher risk players like Subban. Those teams play hardcore defence, something done to absolute perfection by Canada at the last Olympics. Players like Hall will have similar experiences.

Agreed

I was surprised that Kevin Lowe got a big cheer when introduced. I guess he is forgiven.

I agree the cheer was loud but it was very uneasy and certainly not without its jeers. I do think that people were in such a good mood that he was possibly forgiven for the night.

[kimmy]

Oh, and the real curse of Edmonton was Lowe as GM and a truly dreadful scouting staff that passed over so very many fine players in the drafts to pick guys who never played in the NHL after being drafted.

Yes, they are just a year removed from the MacTavish-Lowe era, and you can't just bounce back from that kind of sustained ineptitude overnight.

I read recently that before the 2012 draft they had a big meeting with all their scouts and most of them were convinced that Ryan Murray was the guy they needed to draft, except for the European scout who was 100% behind Alex Galchenyuk. Only a couple of the scouts wanted Yakupov, some of them didn't even have Yakupov on their lists at all. So Lowe, Katz, and MacTavish-- who wasn't even GM at the time, he was on the payroll as Lowe's assistant VP-- go out for dinner and drinks. The next day they inform the scouts that they've made their decision, and the decision is ... Yakupov.

I don't know that Ryan Murray is exactly setting the world on fire, but the whole story just seems typical of how Lowe and MacTavish ran the team. Convinced they're smarter than everybody else, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Convinced they're gurus because they rode Gretzky and Messier's coat-tails to a fistful of Stanley Cup rings. "I know a thing or two about winning, if that's ever a concern."

Obviously the results on the ice weren't much better this year... but I think Chiarelli is at least doing the right things. I think that between him and McLellan, they at least know where the problems are, even if they haven't found solutions yet. Some of those problems would have been alleviated by not having Oscar Klefbom, Connor McDavid, and RNH all out for half or more of the season. Klefbom is 22 and already their best defenseman... I don't know whether that's encouraging, or just a reflection of how bad this team has been at identifying talent. Drafting Klefbom is one of the few smart things that happened under Lowe. I don't know what's wrong with Nugent-Hopkins... it seems like he's always injured. I also think it's possible that McLellan and Chiarelli have probably identified some "core players" who are not exactly committed to winning, and are trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

I hope they trade draft picks this year to bring in experienced players that can support the existing core. It's embarrassing that they're once again picking close to the top. Trying to force more promising young players into the lineup every year is part of the reason they're stuck in this spin-cycle. I think they had planned to leave Darnell Nurse in the minors this year, and were forced into bringing him up because of depth problems and injuries.

-k

[The_Squid]

Yes, they are just a year removed from the MacTavish-Lowe era...

They are both still on the management team. How much influence do they have on player transactions? If there is any influence at all, expect many years of mediocrity... and a trade demand from McDavid in 3 years or so...

[waldo]

Only a couple of the scouts wanted Yakupov, some of them didn't even have Yakupov on their lists at all. So Lowe, Katz, and MacTavish-- who wasn't even GM at the time, he was on the payroll as Lowe's assistant VP-- go out for dinner and drinks. The next day they inform the scouts that they've made their decision, and the decision is ... Yakupov.

I don't know that Ryan Murray is exactly setting the world on fire, but the whole story just seems typical of how Lowe and MacTavish ran the team. Convinced they're smarter than everybody else, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Convinced they're gurus because they rode Gretzky and Messier's coat-tails to a fistful of Stanley Cup rings. "I know a thing or two about winning, if that's ever a concern."

Lowe/McTavish are beyond inept; however, word on the street has the Yak choice solely on Katz. Owners meddling - what could go wrong!

.

Obviously the results on the ice weren't much better this year... but I think Chiarelli is at least doing the right things. I think that between him and McLellan, they at least know where the problems are, even if they haven't found solutions yet. Some of those problems would have been alleviated by not having Oscar Klefbom, Connor McDavid, and RNH all out for half or more of the season. Klefbom is 22 and already their best defenseman... I don't know whether that's encouraging, or just a reflection of how bad this team has been at identifying talent. Drafting Klefbom is one of the few smart things that happened under Lowe. I don't know what's wrong with Nugent-Hopkins... it seems like he's always injured. I also think it's possible that McLellan and Chiarelli have probably identified some "core players" who are not exactly committed to winning, and are trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

Chia was hand-cuffed by a no movement clause, ridiculous contracts, a lack of farm-depth, etc. - see the useless Andrew Ference, Nikita Nikitin. The only Chia moves that have really panned out are Talbot (the Sather gift), Sekera, Maroon... and the flyer taken on Kassian. They don't have a legitimate backup goalie and need 2 big player gains on defence (the exact thing any other team covets)... of course other teams are asking for Klefbom in any kind of return. Chia is not trading from strength. He's managed to squeeze out around $3 million cap space - clearly doesn't go far on its own.

.

[The_Squid]

Oilers fans talk as if Lowe and McTavish were fired... they weren't and still hold management positions on the team.