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People are getting fed up with natives


Argus

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On 3/30/2016 at 8:14 PM, Big Guy said:

Interesting. And if he chooses not to work and has a family then what do you suggest? Where is he/she going to get enough money for a home and food for him and his family?

If he/she is single and chooses not to work then what do you suggest? Where (how) is he/she going to get enough money for a home and food?

If someone has decided to take on the responsibility of having a family, they are solely responsible for ensuring their family's needs are met. Why do I feel like the argument is steering in the direction where, "someone on an external level needs to step in and help?" Bottom line, the world we live in today revolves around currency, unless an individual can hunt, farm and fish for a living--which aboriginal people DO have rights in Canada to do so, freely--how is it someone else's responsibility to help those who can and just don't want to??

In my honest opinion, the originally mistreated aboriginal people deserve compensation, similar to holocaust survivors, who get monetary compensations from the German government, annually. However I'm unable to find any articles which states that the next seven generations of holocaust survivors will receive similar monetary compensation? (Do share links if you have them. Thanks!)

Edited by JayG
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  • 1 year later...

This is a new generation and we didn't treat them terribly , so honestly I am sick of hearing about the pass history because it isn't happening now , yes history is good to learn but why use it to hurt us like in the history everyone was treated terribly at one point of the time and native has a status card and discounts etc , the question I want to know when is this going to stop , so we can all live a normal life and I am tired of my people getting treated like we victimized the natives when it was us that was history and All children matter,  everyone should be treated equal. 

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I don't know anyone who is "fed up with natives", and I live in rural Ontario. I live very close to the Tyendinaga reserve. These people aren't living in filth and squalor. In fact they are doing quite well. I for one am a bit envious when I drive through their town and see the well kept houses and land, multiple cars, boats and quads they own.

To be honest, I think they're living better than most people and have the best of both worlds, quiet rural living with quick access to a nearby small city for resources.

But I do know many people who are fed up with the government and media narrative on this. Watch the TV news and they come out like this is a total shock, look we found children's graves. Older folks know, it was already known a long time ago that these deaths occurred and there are grave sites at many if not all residential schools. Young folks do not know.

It angers me to hear the media go on like this, as though they intend to inflame the anger in our youth towards Canada. Our youth don't know the history of Canada very well and they are hearing about this, and asking, wtf are we.

That's how to subvert a society, by fomenting dissent from within through ahistorical narratives. In other words, lies. It's not a lie that the kids died. It's a lie that they all died of abuse and that this was not known.

Now ask yourself who would want to subvert Canadian society, why, and how.

Edited by OftenWrong
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7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't know anyone who is "fed up with natives", and I live in rural Ontario. I live very close to the Tyendinaga reserve.  

I know that area, and you just have to look at the history to understand what happened.  They were imported into Upper Canada with the Loyalists and lived beside us as we grew into a nation unlike the western tribes.

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14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I know that area, and you just have to look at the history to understand what happened.  They were imported into Upper Canada with the Loyalists and lived beside us as we grew into a nation unlike the western tribes.

Then you’ll know how they found their niche- selling cheap gas and tobacco to the white man.

Problem solved.

;) 

 

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure.  This started around 95, I just checked with the missus.

Glad you were able to confirm it. That shit was already here when I arrived, and famous.  If you take a drive through you’ll see a successful community. Better yet pull over and get some gas and cheap tobacco.

The bag tobacco is about $10 per bag of 200 cigarettes. Just dont get pulled over by cops with those in car. The fine is $500 a bag.

It’s rumoured the gasoline has hazardous waste mixed in, the same way the mob sells it. I dont know, but their products are unregulated so iit’s buyer beware.

Fill your boots

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On 3/18/2016 at 8:59 AM, Argus said:

And that's a tragedy, in its own way. I sense a growing antipathy for natives where I am. I've see nothing in the media to support that, but then, the media doesn't like to dwell on things like that. But almost everyone I know has a sneer whenever the topic of natives comes up, and most of the people I know aren't very conservative. Even people I barely know are bitching about natives, from the Black taxi driver last week, to the Lebanese Canadian contractor I met yesterday.

There are two unpopular thoughts about natives. The first, of course, is they're welfare bums and criminals, drunkards, drug abusers and prostitutes. They don't work. They don't want to work. Their reserves are a mess because they can't maintain anything and trash their houses and their leaders are self-serving crooks. That's been a longstanding but growing belief.

Lately, as the economy has soured I've been hearing another much angrier complaint. Wherever there's economic development proposed for outside a city, whether it's forestry, a new mine, oil drilling or exploration, a pipeline, a ski resort, anything at all, there you'll find natives howling and protesting and suing to try and slow it down or stop it. That's got a lot more anger than the first complaint.

The problem is both complaints have a lot of truth to them. The miserable plight of natives is due to the application of centuries old agreements which make no sense any longer. They're a drag on Canada's economy, and they're most definitely not in the interest of Canada or natives - except of course, the chiefs. The Indian Act needs to be torn up. Economically unsustainable reserves need to be closed down. Natives need to become better integrated with Canada.

This country is almost 150 years old. It's not going away. It's time for natives to realize they can't live anything approaching a modern life with any sort of satisfaction and purpose while squatting out in the bush waiting for their monthly cheques. I'm all for giving them lots of help. education and job training, as well as buying them houses to live in, but this grinding, neverending mess has to stop, because ordinary Canadians (not the political or media classes of course) are becoming more and more fed up with the status quo and want things fixed. Their anger is growing, and its misdirected towards natives as a whole, when it should be directed against the elites, both ours and theirs, who keep tinkering and kicking the can down the road.

The start of your post was impressive but then it kind of went sideways.

On the first complaint, no matter what I have posted before regarding land ownership rights, I have to agree with it.  I have seen white slobs who can live in a slum, but  I have also seen many appalling FN yards strewn with junk and litter.  I have been cleaning up a site visited only by FN people  - in their village, and every time I go I find new piles to pick up.  But maybe it is not entirely their fault.  If they do not have the knowledge or comprehension on how to deal with garbage, the problem lies with those who produced the items and sold the items to them. Same as with weapons and mentally unstable individuals.   Holding jobs - again; this may be beyond their culture.  Drinking with moderation - again it is possible this is not their fault.

On the second complaint - I am happy if they can stop at least 1 in 3 or even 1 in 5 projects from going ahead.  All those projects are harmful to all of us.   That thing about the economy and the jobs - lets call it for what it is - bullshit.   I watch in disbelief as the logging trucks hauling old growth timber fly through town one after the other in our state of emergency with half the province on fire.  Let's again call it for what it is : we are insane people, although we might think of ourselves as knowledgeable.

The part of integrating the natives into Canada, I find amusing to say the least.  In my view it should be the other way round.

And yes there are big crooks among the natives too.  But the money comes from our government and our government is responsible for auditing the FN operations and how the money is spent.  Again, the fault lies with our government.

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"But maybe it is not entirely their fault.  If they do not have the knowledge or comprehension on how to deal with garbage, the problem lies with those who produced the items and sold the items to them."

I find it very hard to believe that in 2021 the band council of such reserves don't have the knowledge necessary to deal with garbage. 

I agree that manufacturers should be more responsible for the goods they produce and the packaging especially.  I do not agree that with you that they are the sole problem.  Personal responsibility for one's own environment must also play a part.  

"The part of integrating the natives into Canada, I find amusing to say the least.  In my view it should be the other way round."

The Indigenous population represent less than 5% of the Canadian public which is a mosaic of many different ethnicities.  The idea that the majority should be subsumed by the minority is totally unfeasible and thoroughly unreasonable. 

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15 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't know anyone who is "fed up with natives", and I live in rural Ontario. I live very close to the Tyendinaga reserve. These people aren't living in filth and squalor. In fact they are doing quite well. I for one am a bit envious when I drive through their town and see the well kept houses and land, multiple cars, boats and quads they own.

To be honest, I think they're living better than most people and have the best of both worlds, quiet rural living with quick access to a nearby small city for resources.

But I do know many people who are fed up with the government and media narrative on this. Watch the TV news and they come out like this is a total shock, look we found children's graves. Older folks know, it was already known a long time ago that these deaths occurred and there are grave sites at many if not all residential schools. Young folks do not know.

It angers me to hear the media go on like this, as though they intend to inflame the anger in our youth towards Canada. Our youth don't know the history of Canada very well and they are hearing about this, and asking, wtf are we.

That's how to subvert a society, by fomenting dissent from within through ahistorical narratives. In other words, lies. It's not a lie that the kids died. It's a lie that they all died of abuse and that this was not known.

Now ask yourself who would want to subvert Canadian society, why, and how.

I most certainly am totally fed up with media coverage and their blatant use of superlatives, exaggeration and constant repetition.  I counted 12 articles in my news feed one day about the grave sites - not one of them had an iota of new news.  Not one.  In saturating our news with a constant barrage of of these articles it is only natural that people finally get fed up.  Instead of fostering sympathy the media coverage is having the exact opposite effect.

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56 minutes ago, mowich said:

.

The Indigenous population represent less than 5% of the Canadian public which is a mosaic of many different ethnicities.  The idea that the majority should be subsumed by the minority is totally unfeasible and thoroughly unreasonable. 

Keep in mind they started as being 100% of those living on these lands.  The settlers brought disease, killed off many of them, oppressed the rest and then started importing new residents from other continents.   So  integrating to them is not all that unreasonable.

As for those non bio degradable items, I find it entirely a problem of those who manufacture them and distribute them.  It is all with the government.  

 

 

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25 minutes ago, cougar said:

Keep in mind they started as being 100% of those living on these lands.  The settlers brought disease, killed off many of them, oppressed the rest and then started importing new residents from other continents.   So  integrating to them is not all that unreasonable.

As for those non bio degradable items, I find it entirely a problem of those who manufacture them and distribute them.  It is all with the government.  

 

 

Integrate with what?  Copying a pre-contact Indigenous lifestyle is not something people would willingly do, including Indigenous.  Also, there’d be no status card or Indigenous blood to allow non-Indigenous to live on the reserve, so I guess non-Indigenous would have to live off reserve and pay for their own land and services.  Oh wait that already happens.  If non-Indigenous got the same perks as Indigenous, such as not having to pay taxes, there’d be no money to pay for health, education, and infrastructure, including for Indigenous.  No break from taxes or the work needed to pay them for non-Indigenous.  

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22 minutes ago, cougar said:

Keep in mind they started as being 100% of those living on these lands.  The settlers brought disease, killed off many of them, oppressed the rest and then started importing new residents from other continents.   So  integrating to them is not all that unreasonable.

As for those non bio degradable items, I find it entirely a problem of those who manufacture them and distribute them.  It is all with the government.  

 

 

For arguments sake, please explain exactly what you mean by integrating to them? 

You might also explain why immigrants to Canada should have to subsume their individual identities in order to appease a small minority of the population.

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52 minutes ago, mowich said:

For arguments sake, please explain exactly what you mean by integrating to them? 

You might also explain why immigrants to Canada should have to subsume their individual identities in order to appease a small minority of the population.

I can't.   But I am willing to admit that.  Not like your Canadian government asking immigrants from all sorts of nations to integrate.  Integrate to whom and to which culture?  There is no integration. That Sikh is not going to get rid of his bird's nest, and I am not going to wear one on my head.  I am not going to eat rice with chop sticks.  I am not going to pray to Allah; I am not going to burn the tires of a Ford F150 to integrate to the redneck population.

What I am referring to above is, you have someone's home.  You break into it, change everything around, put your host in the basement, change the game on him with one that suits you; blame your host for being a loser for not being successful playing your game; ask your host to integrate to you.  Seems a bit arrogant , doesn't it?

It may be more appropriate for the new settlers to live on reserves, while the First Nations go wherever they want.

As for the financial side of things, healthcare, taxes, who pays what - don't want to go there.  This tax game is the game of the settlers. The First Nations might be able to come up with something different that works for them.

 

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6 hours ago, cougar said:

I can't.   But I am willing to admit that.  Not like your Canadian government asking immigrants from all sorts of nations to integrate.  Integrate to whom and to which culture?  There is no integration. That Sikh is not going to get rid of his bird's nest, and I am not going to wear one on my head.  I am not going to eat rice with chop sticks.  I am not going to pray to Allah; I am not going to burn the tires of a Ford F150 to integrate to the redneck population.

What I am referring to above is, you have someone's home.  You break into it, change everything around, put your host in the basement, change the game on him with one that suits you; blame your host for being a loser for not being successful playing your game; ask your host to integrate to you.  Seems a bit arrogant , doesn't it?

It may be more appropriate for the new settlers to live on reserves, while the First Nations go wherever they want.

As for the financial side of things, healthcare, taxes, who pays what - don't want to go there.  This tax game is the game of the settlers. The First Nations might be able to come up with something different that works for them.

 

Who exactly changed everything around?  More “settlers” are coming than ever before, as many as 600,000 this year.  Life on the successful reserves looks much like life off the reserve.  We need to stop pretending that there are these purist people living a thousands-year-old lifestyle.  It’s a myth.  Integration to a life with better outcomes was inevitable, except perhaps in the far north and remote locations.  It’s often the reserves in the remote locations that have the most deplorable conditions.  Indigenous want them modernized with water purification systems and all the conveniences.  Who wouldn’t?   But there’s nothing pre-contact about that. And who is paying for and building these modern systems? It’s like saying I’d like to be taken care of like a child yet also have the freedom of an adult. A good parent says, when you can work and pay for things yourself, you can have all the freedom you want.

Self-determination means self-reliance.  As long as Indigenous don’t have to pay towards their own care through taxation, they will continue to be seen as and feel like dependents.  The old ways disappeared a long time ago.  What are we propping up here?   The racist Indian Act?   Special privileges based on ethnicity?  If it was up to me I’d allow and encourage private ownership of reserve land and I’d phase out status cards and the special privileges, because they’ve only incentivized dependence and staying on mostly unsustainable reserves.  I’d at least grandfather the privileges and give bands the option to privatize reserves.  But I’m not stupid enough to believe that this wouldn’t be held against our government as yet a further example of colonialism, so instead we have to drag this out until the Indigenous themselves change their situation.  Of course there’s a small minority of Indigenous, especially at the chief level, who benefit from the current arrangement and want to keep it.

Language and culture can be protected quite easily without the Indian Act.

I just can’t help but see the whole current system as an ineffectual money pit, which is why I’d cap funding rises for Indigenous Affairs at the level of inflation and write it off because it’s a counterproductive system.  It’s like a controlled hemorrhage that won’t heal.  More examples of “colonialism” will be cited and more handouts will be asked and it will never be enough.  It’s a broken cycle of dependence.  We can no longer blame Canada for a system that Indigenous are free to change.  Nor can we blame the current population of Canadians, most of whom are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants who arrived within the last century, long after the Indian Act was established. Canadians alive today didn’t build this system and want it gone.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Integration to a life with better outcomes was inevitable, except perhaps in the far north and remote locations.

I think this is the actual myth.  What better outcomes?  No fish in the oceans, no trees in the forests, no bees, no birds, no nothing; temperatures of 40'C and over but we continue the wide spread destruction which we call economic progress.

Guess what? Wealth is the productivity of this land and its ability to produce food, oxygen and function properly.  We are capping the land putting our useless structures and suffocating life out of it.

Is the pile of gold or diamonds we have dug out of the ground over the years, at the expense of burning an ocean of fossil fuels wealth?   Is the sea of concrete in the form of buildings, roads and parking lots wealth?  Are those zombies glued to their iPhones really better and more knowledgeable people than those who lived 50 years ago?  Are their lives in any way better - think about the average guy?

You might find, to your disappointment, that the answer to all those questions is NO.

I share your sentiment about the two tier system, which I see as legalized racial discrimination against everyone who is not native.  This, however still exists because the settlers apparently are willing to admit that they are guests who have wronged the indigenous population.  If it was easy to resolve this problem, it would have been done by now.

Edited by cougar
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2 hours ago, cougar said:

I think this is the actual myth.  What better outcomes?  No fish in the oceans, no trees in the forests, no bees, no birds, no nothing; temperatures of 40'C and over but we continue the wide spread destruction which we call economic progress.

Guess what? Wealth is the productivity of this land and its ability to produce food, oxygen and function properly.  We are capping the land putting our useless structures and suffocating life out of it.

Is the pile of gold or diamonds we have dug out of the ground over the years, at the expense of burning an ocean of fossil fuels wealth?   Is the sea of concrete in the form of buildings, roads and parking lots wealth?  Are those zombies glued to their iPhones really better and more knowledgeable people than those who lived 50 years ago?  Are their lives in any way better - think about the average guy?

You might find, to your disappointment, that the answer to all those questions is NO.

I share your sentiment about the two tier system, which I see as legalized racial discrimination against everyone who is not native.  This, however still exists because the settlers apparently are willing to admit that they are guests who have wronged the indigenous population.  If it was easy to resolve this problem, it would have been done by now.

People have chosen the lifestyles that they have.  At any point you’re able to renounce property, give away your possessions and money, and camp out on Crown land.  You could live on a sailboat and drop anchor in the water to avoid land taxes.  You could fish and hunt for a living.  You could collect welfare and use it to rent a patch of farmland up north.  It would certainly be a lower carbon footprint, though your farts would continue to produce methane greenhouse gases. Your waste and habitat would be invasive to the surrounding ecosystem.  We can reduce our footprints but we are carbon-based creatures who pollute our surroundings no matter how you slice it.  Think globally and act locally.  I’m pleased that it worries you and you’re willing to do something about it because it takes some of the pressure off the rest of us.  I’m not sure how many Indigenous will give up their Sea Doos and F150’s and follow you into the wilderness, but you’ve got to start somewhere.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

People have chosen the lifestyles that they have.  At any point you’re able to renounce property, give away your possessions and money, and camp out on Crown land.  You could live on a sailboat and drop anchor in the water to avoid land taxes.  You could fish and hunt for a living.  You could collect welfare and use it to rent a patch of farmland up north.  It would certainly be a lower carbon footprint, though your farts would continue to produce methane greenhouse gases. Your waste and habitat would be invasive to the surrounding ecosystem.  We can reduce our footprints but we are carbon-based creatures who pollute our surroundings no matter how you slice it.  Think globally and act locally.  I’m pleased that it worries you and you’re willing to do something about it because it takes some of the pressure off the rest of us.  I’m not sure how many Indigenous will give up their Sea Doos and F150’s and follow you into the wilderness, but you’ve got to start somewhere.  

It is possible people have not chosen this lifestyle.  This is the lifestyle imposed on them in which they are now trapped.  They were told to look for success in society, gain notoriety, money and fame.  They were groomed to cherish a carbon intensive lifestyle.  Look around you at all the ads - radio, TV, newspapers - all about buy more, consume more, get it bigger and so on.

Why don't I ride my bicycle on the road?  Because it is 1 bicycle per 100 or more cars!  Do I want to take the risk and still be stuck with the same noise and breathing in carbon emissions?  No, I don't.  This is why I do not ride there.

It is not a task for one person.  You can banish me to the Northern Territories to fart happily in the wilderness but this will not change a thing for you.  You are headed fast towards your own demise.

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2 minutes ago, cougar said:

It is possible people have not chosen this lifestyle.  This is the lifestyle imposed on them in which they are now trapped.  They were told to look for success in society, gain notoriety, money and fame.  They were groomed to cherish a carbon intensive lifestyle.  Look around you at all the ads - radio, TV, newspapers - all about buy more, consume more, get it bigger and so on.

Why don't I ride my bicycle on the road?  Because it is 1 bicycle per 100 or more cars!  Do I want to take the risk and still be stuck with the same noise and breathing in carbon emissions?  No, I don't.  This is why I do not ride there.

It is not a task for one person.  You can banish me to the Northern Territories to fart happily in the wilderness but this will not change a thing for you.  You are headed fast towards your own demise.

I think banishing you to the northern wilderness to fart happily can be integrated into Trudeau’s climate action plan.  Soon the price of fuel and electricity may send others northward on their bikes.  Most of us will have to continue working in high emissions industry, however, to foot the bill for your pogey-based low-carbon lifestyle.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Most of us will have to continue working in high emissions industry, however, to foot the bill for your pogey-based low-carbon lifestyle.

How so ???  I don't  take money from Trudeau; I pay taxes like you do!

Here you go - this is myself and my dog in one of our emissions free pastimes.  (That thing about how carbon intensive farting is can be left for Trudeau)

 

2021-Kitwangs-20.jpg

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4 hours ago, cougar said:

How so ???  I don't  take money from Trudeau; I pay taxes like you do!

Here you go - this is myself and my dog in one of our emissions free pastimes.  (That thing about how carbon intensive farting is can be left for Trudeau)

 

2021-Kitwangs-20.jpg

Great picture!  Beautiful dog!  

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42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Great picture!  Beautiful dog!  

🙂 Yes, he is beautiful.  Nearly lost him last week after he decided to chase mountain goats at high elevations.

All these pictures are from the past 2 weeks or so.  Did 4 summits in this time,one after work.

 

2021-Glacier_01.jpg

2021-Glacier_03.jpg

2021-Glacier_06.jpg

2021-Gunsight_02.jpg

2021-Kitwangs-14.jpg

Edited by cougar
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