Moonlight Graham Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I'm wondering why this idea is so controversial and wildly ridiculed, mostly by those on the left. Of course The Donald talks about the need to build one to keep out the large number of illegal Mexicans and other traveling Latin Americans that keep entering the country, including drug smugglers. It would be a significant investment of money, and would require the cooperation of all of the border US states to make it work, but other than that I don't see any controversy. I certainly don't see it as any kind of symbol of racism etc. vs Mexicans/Latinos. I mean, a country needs to secure its borders, it can't have illegal aliens and smugglers from one of the biggest illegal drug-producing regions in the world flowing across its borders. Maybe a wall isn't the only answer, maybe some surveillance drones with heat-sensitive sensors and some rapid-response teams could do the job much cheaper. What do you think about the idea the border wall? Sound like a good idea or bad idea? Does it deserve the controversy it gets? Is Trump just a looney? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 There already is a a wall...it's just pretty crappy as walls go. Big gaps...disrepair. But some places are like a castle... https://tribkcpq.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/183004973.jpg Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Historically though....walls are the way to go. Offa's Dyke...Hadrian's Wall...Berlin Wall...et al. All examples of successful walls. Offa's Dyke in Wales...still visible in many places. http://www.offasdyke.demon.co.uk/J6014121.JPG Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Right...there have been fences along the U.S. - Mexico border for years. This game has been going on since the days of Poncho Villa. The Great Wall of China is very popular with tourists. Edited March 12, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Right...there have been fences along the U.S. - Mexico border for years. This game has been going on since the days of Poncho Villa. The Great Wall of China is very popular with tourists. One need only compare castle designs from various parts of Europe to understand the necessity for walls in troubled times. Around the UK, most structures deemed to be 'castles' are actually fortified manors without huge walls...just a thick door. France...well...different story. Most of those were functional castles...very high walls...imposing towers...main donjon/keep. Thank-you English Channel... There are exceptions, of course. Beaumaris for example. But those biggies in the UK were mainly to deal with the damn Welsh and Scots! Edited March 12, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Wilber Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Visited the Antonine wall in Scotland. A wall too far, intended to replace Hadrian's wall but abandoned eight years after completion Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Wilber Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 There already is a a wall...it's just pretty crappy as walls go. Big gaps...disrepair. But some places are like a castle... https://tribkcpq.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/183004973.jpg You can see parts of it from I8 west of Yuma Az. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Big Guy Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 There are three ways to bypass an impenetrable wall: You can go over it, you can go under it or you can go around it. I have great difficulty envisioning a project of building an impenetrable wall, about 2,000 miles long, deep enough so no one could dig under it, high enough that no one could breach it and enough security to keep people from going around it. I do not think it can be done. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Visited the Antonine wall in Scotland. A wall too far, intended to replace Hadrian's wall but abandoned eight years after completion Yes...I've been to most of the antiquities up that way. Long ago, unfortunately. Hardknott up in Cumbria was my favorite...Roman fort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardknott_Pass The Picts were trooooble. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 There are three ways to bypass an impenetrable wall: You can go over it, you can go under it or you can go around it. I have great difficulty envisioning a project of building an impenetrable wall, about 2,000 miles long, deep enough so no one could dig under it, high enough that no one could breach it and enough security to keep people from going around it. I do not think it can be done. You don't need to keep out all the illegal immigrants. Just most. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I can't wait to hear the laughter from Nieto when he gets the bill from Drumpf. Quote
August1991 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Visited the Antonine wall in Scotland. A wall too far, intended to replace Hadrian's wall but abandoned eight years after completion.Disagree, bad example. Berlin Wall vs Mexico Wall. One society (Soviet Union/East Germany) built walls to keep civilized people in. Another society (US/Texas) builds walls to keep people out. So, why do we have walls? ====== Without prisons, without prison walls, there would be no incentive to do good. Edited March 12, 2016 by August1991 Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Disagree, bad example. Berlin Wall vs Mexico Wall. One society (Soviet Union/East Germany) built walls to keep civilized people in. Another society (US/Texas) builds walls to keep people out. So, why do we have walls? ====== Without prisons, without prison walls, there would be no incentive to do good. So to follow your logic, you are saying "trumps" wall will do no good. Quote
Wilber Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Disagree, bad example. Berlin Wall vs Mexico Wall. One society (Soviet Union/East Germany) built walls to keep civilized people in. Another society (US/Texas) builds walls to keep people out. So, why do we have walls? ====== Without prisons, without prison walls, there would be no incentive to do good. It was also intended to keep people out. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
August1991 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 So to follow your logic, you are saying "trumps" wall will do no good.The Soviets built a wall to keep people inside. Trump wants to build a wall to keep people outside. ===== I see a difference. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 The Soviets built a wall to keep people inside. Trump wants to build a wall to keep people outside. ===== I see a difference. I think most Americans can see the difference between reality and bombast, so the wall idea is toast before it starts. Quote
August1991 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I think most Americans can see the difference between reality and bombast, so the wall idea is toast before it starts.Toast? Then why have prisons, or prison walls? Let everyone go wherever! Edited March 12, 2016 by August1991 Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 Toast? Then why have prisons, or prison walls? Let everyone go wherever! Prisons are for the purpose of protecting the public from convicted criminals. Trumps little wall idea is an attempt to convince the redneck and somewhat brain dead portion of the GOP to vote for him. They represent a relatively small portion of the total American population. So yep, toast. Quote
August1991 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Prisons are for the purpose of protecting the public from convicted criminals.So, some walls are good. Trumps little wall idea is an attempt to convince the redneck and somewhat brain dead portion of the GOP to vote for him. They represent a relatively small portion of the total American population. So yep, toast.But some some walls are uh, bad? ======= I'm a free trader - but I understand ostracism. Edited March 12, 2016 by August1991 Quote
Hal 9000 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I can't wait to hear the laughter from Nieto when he gets the bill from Drumpf. I don't think he would actually send a bill. I'm sure the debt will be offset by not giving Mexico money until the crisis is dealt with. But you already knew that...right? BTW - It'll be very good for job creation. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 So, some walls are good. But some some walls are uh, bad? ======= I'm a free trader - but I understand ostracism. Some walls are good. I have a number in my house and am quite happy with them. I wouldn't spend a lot of time fretting over Trumps wall though. If Trump was at all sincere about his bullshit about Mexican's, he would stop having his clothes made there. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I don't think he would actually send a bill. I'm sure the debt will be offset by not giving Mexico money until the crisis is dealt with. But you already knew that...right? BTW - It'll be very good for job creation. Oh I see you sucked up Trump's little rant about the Mexican/US trade deficit. Hopefully you didn't fall for that! And we know if he were ever to actually get his way, he would of course hire Mexican's to build his wall. They work cheaper remember?, which is why he has part of his clothing line made there. I don't think you could get a more vivid example of hypocrisy. Quote
August1991 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Some walls are good. I have a number in my house and am quite happy with them. I wouldn't spend a lot of time fretting over Trumps wall though. If Trump was at all sincere about his bullshit about Mexican's, he would stop having his clothes made there.On Guard, I suspect that you wonder why anyone "cool", who normally would choose Obama or Trudeau Jnr, could possibly pick Trump. I recall this leftist rant: "Be there, or be square." Edited March 12, 2016 by August1991 Quote
Wilber Posted March 12, 2016 Report Posted March 12, 2016 I don't think he would actually send a bill. I'm sure the debt will be offset by not giving Mexico money until the crisis is dealt with. But you already knew that...right? BTW - It'll be very good for job creation. So Trump is going to tear up NAFTA. Don't you think mister "tell it like it is" should be up front about that? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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