300,000 more refugees coming to Canada.

[Argus]

Being a refugee does not equally mean unskilled. They may be dependents at first, but just like other newcomers, they will look for work. Other than fear, there is no proof that immigrants or refugees are a net drain on our economy. Also the article notes that businesses in Albera are crying out for employees, the types of businesses who are looking for unskilled workers. Perhaps they are hoping for more unskilled refugees, than skilled.

What proof do you think you could get? The Fraser institute put the cost of the Canadian immigration system at over $20 billion per year, and they weren't even talking about refugees. Realistically, when you're talking third world, which we are, you're talking a lot of people who likely have no or very inferior language skills, and inferior educations to what is the Canadian standard. Moreover they'll probably have no proof of that education.

I wold say those businesses crying out for unskilled workers are really crying out for CHEAP unskilled workers. The more low skilled labour you import to Canada the more lower income earners see their wages depressed.

[The_Squid]

The entire premise of this thread was a bold-faced lie.

300,000 refugees? Did the OP actually think no one would catch that?

[The_Squid]

The killer is family unification. All it does is fill up the hospitals so people that live here all there life or most of it and paid taxes ,cant get in.

Provide a cite for this claim.

[eyeball]

The entire premise of this thread was a bold-faced lie.

300,000 refugees? Did the OP actually think no one would catch that?

The OP seems to believe that refugee and immigrant mean the same thing - I think a lot of people agree.

As for me, the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the thread title was ONLY 300,000? Imagine how let down I was when I found out it was really only 60,000.

[taxme]

The OP seems to believe that refugee and immigrant mean the same thing - I think a lot of people agree.

As for me, the first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the thread title was ONLY 300,000? Imagine how let down I was when I found out it was really only 60,000.

The balance of the refugees may soon be on their way to Canada within the next few years or so if the liberals get their way. 300,000 may be just a drop in the bucket.

[taxme]

The entire premise of this thread was a bold-faced lie.

300,000 refugees? Did the OP actually think no one would catch that?

You got me. I didn't think that I would get it past you.

[jacee]

Most people don't come to Canada wanting to spend their lives on welfare. However, when we're speaking about people who come here from third world countries who are not screened for education, language or job skills, many, if not most of whom will have significantly inferior educations, even those who do get work are not going to get good work. As I said above, they'll be working largely minimum wage, low skill jobs for the rest of their lives. Which means they aren't going to be contributing anywhere near enough in taxes to pay for the government services supplied to them.

That's nonsense.

Do the research.

Nor has the government ever provided any detailed rationalization of why we're bringing in a particular number of immigrants as opposed to some other number. Or why we're bringing in so many third world immigrants vs European immigrants who, statistics say, perform two to three times better, economically.

What statistics?

.

Edited March 10, 2016 by jacee

[Big Guy]

Since 2000 the rate of immigration has varied from about 220,000-262,000 people per year. However, in 2010 Canada accepted 280,681 immigrants which is far above the average. In 2011 the immigration rate reached 248,748 and in 2012 the immigration rate was 257,515. The government aims to keep the number of immigrants to around 250,000 each year. The per capita immigration rate of the country is about 0.8%, which is one of the highest in the world. There were plans for a 1% per capita immigration rate in the country, but this was not financially possible.

http://vscouncil.ca/how-many-people-immigrate-to-canada-every-year/

[cybercoma]

The balance of the refugees may soon be on their way to Canada within the next few years or so if the liberals get their way. 300,000 may be just a drop in the bucket.

"May be" "few years" "or so"

Sounds like you don't really know anything.

This is why people should have references to official sources.

[Argus]

That's nonsense.

Do the research.

Done already. I be you haven't looked at a thing but the governments propaganda.

What statistics?

.

None you'll find from the government, I assure you.

Average immigrant earnings as per stats canada

United Kingdom 41,812

United States 41,867

Other North Europe 33,848

Germany 42,601

India 22,878

Pakistan 16,015

West Asia and Middle east 13, 817

http://global-economics.ca/empin_immigrant_region.htm

Edited March 10, 2016 by Argus

[cybercoma]

Done already. I be you haven't looked at a thing but the governments propaganda.

None you'll find from the government, I assure you.

Average immigrant earnings as per stats canada

United Kingdom 41,812

United States 41,867

Other North Europe 33,848

Germany 42,601

India 22,878

Pakistan 16,015

West Asia and Middle east 13, 817

http://global-economics.ca/empin_immigrant_region.htm

Over the last 25 years the economic position of newcomers to Canada relative to the native population has steadily declined. A number of hypotheses have been advanced to explain these issues.

1. The selection process is flawed;[11]

2. Government and corporate policies deliberately shift immigrants to secondary sector occupations. These are jobs characterized by high instability, hazardous work environments, and low pay. Inherently those involved in these sectors will have lower wages and more periods of unemployment. In several European countries the immigration system is almost fully designed to try to fill these positions. This is less the case in Canada, but significant recruitment programs for sectors such as agriculture and oil and gas recruit many workers to perilous jobs.[37]

3. Newer immigrants from outside of Europe are victims of racial discrimination.[38]

4. Canada's social programs create incentives that conflict with the employment objective;[11] and/or

5. Increased job competition among even native-born Canadians has increased the importance of relying on networking to access the "hidden market," putting immigrants at a disadvantage given their lack of deep and broad networks.[39]

A January 2007 study by Statistics Canada analyzed the drop in income of economic immigrants from several perspectives.[1] Economic immigrants are now more likely to begin their stay in Canada with a "low-income" (less than 50% of the median income) than an immigrant in any of the other immigration classes (see Table 16 in the study). This drop occurred during the 1990s and early 2000s despite the percentage of immigrants arriving with degrees in the economic class (including principal applicants, spouses, and dependents) rising from 29% in 1992 to 56% in 2003.

Stating an intention to reduce a backlog of immigration applicants of all classes, and to better target the required skills needed in Canada, the federal government passed a law in 2008 that gave the immigration minister new powers to alter immigrant selection. Many expected that these powers would be used to favour workers in skilled trades over immigrants selected on the basis of education through the points system.[40]

While the well being of immigrants has declined in recent years, this has not affected second generation immigrants, or those who came to Canada as a child. This group is one of the most successful in Canada, with education and earning levels well above that of their parents and also above the Canadian average.[41]

Source (footnote links at the bottom): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada#Decline_in_economic_well_being

Edited March 10, 2016 by cybercoma

[jacee]

Done already. I be you haven't looked at a thing but the governments propaganda.

None you'll find from the government, I assure you.

Average immigrant earnings as per stats canada

United Kingdom 41,812

United States 41,867

Other North Europe 33,848

Germany 42,601

India 22,878

Pakistan 16,015

West Asia and Middle east 13, 817

http://global-economics.ca/empin_immigrant_region.htm

We need to know how long they've been in the country to make any sense of that.

Even from that data, it's clear that those who've been here longer are doing better.

And with those incomes, none of them are collecting welfare.

.

Edited March 11, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

We need to know how long they've been in the country to make any sense of that.

Even from that data, it's clear that those who've been here longer are doing better.

And with those incomes, none of them are collecting welfare.

.

Yet it points out that even those who have been here longer aren't doing as well as Canadians. And with those incomes they're not paying taxes, either.

One of the main justifications used for our heavy immigration intake is that we'll need more younger people to pay for services as the baby boomers retire. These people are not going to be doing that. They're not even covering their own services from the government, like health care, much less anyone elses.

If we were going to take the immigrants who would be best for Canada we would go on a recruiting spree in Europe, esp the UK, Ireland, and France, and look for young graduates and skilled tradesmen (in their 20s and early 30s) whose skills are needed here. There is no one who could make a coherent case this would not be more beneficial for Canada than the current setup. It would also give the huge immigrant communities from Asia a break from the steady flow of newcomers and give them a better chance to integrate.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Argus

[jacee]

Yet it points out that even those who have been here longer aren't doing as well as Canadians.

Our Canadian history is full of stories of immigrant parents who struggled with language and in menial jobs so their kids could have education and other opportunities in Canada. Of course the second generation does better than their parents. It's always been that way.

And with those incomes they're not paying taxes, either.

Nonsense.

Of course they are, income tax, consumption taxes, property taxes.

One of the main justifications used for our heavy immigration intake is that we'll need more younger people to pay for services as the baby boomers retire. These people are not going to be doing that. They're not even covering their own services from the government, like health care, much less anyone elses.

Yes they are. So are their kids.

If we were going to take the immigrants who would be best for Canada we would go on a recruiting spree in Europe, esp the UK, Ireland, and France, and look for young graduates and skilled tradesmen (in their 20s and early 30s) whose skills are needed here. There is no one who could make a coherent case this would not be more beneficial for Canada than the current setup.

I'm sure they'd come if they wanted to.

I guess they have opportunities there, and it's cold here. You have to be pretty desperate to come to a cold country like this.

It would also give the huge immigrant communities from Asia a break from the steady flow of newcomers and give them a better chance to integrate.

They're doing just fine. Ethnic communities, shops, markets, etc. contribute a lot, draw a lot of tourists, etc.

I prefer shopping at my local ethnic markets.

Your arguments just make no sense, Argus.

.

Edited March 13, 2016 by jacee

[jacee]

While the well being of immigrants has declined in recent years, this has not affected second generation immigrants, or those who came to Canada as a child. This group is one of the most successful in Canada, with education and earning levels well above that of their parents and also above the Canadian average.[41]

Source (footnote links at the bottom): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada#Decline_in_economic_well_being

And that is why people immigrate to Canada and always have, opportunities for the next generation.

.

Edited March 13, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

Our Canadian history is full of stories of immigrant parents who struggled with language and in menial jobs,

It is. The difference however is that the state provides so much to poorer people now than it did before. All paid for by other Canadians.

Nonsense. Of course they are, income tax, consumption taxes, property taxes.

Now you're just lying.

No, you're simply demonstrating your ignorance.

Yes they are. So are their kids.

Just as some provinces are 'haves' and others 'have nots' so too are Canadians in terms of whether they are payers or takers. Thirty percent of the population are takers, paying zero income tax. Most of these refugees and family class immigrants will join this group.

I'm sure they'd come if they wanted to.

That's not how immigration works. Each area is given a certain quota, a certain number of immigrants. The numbers for Europe are very low, and could probably all be filled from any one of a dozen countries with ease.

I guess they have opportunities there, and it's cold here.

The unemployment rate is in double digits in many European countries. The youth unemployment rate is over 20% in the EU, over 40% in Spain and a few other countries.

I prefer shopping at my local ethnic markets.

Yes, I have noted how many lefties hate Canada and Canadians. It's behind their reverence for the immigration system bringing foreigners here.

.

[Argus]

And that is why people immigrate to Canada and always have, opportunities for the next generation.

.

I'm interested in the costs of THIS generation; millions of freeloaders coming here and consuming services but not paying for them. That puts the burden on me and others like me.

[taxme]

I'm interested in the costs of THIS generation; millions of freeloaders coming here and consuming services but not paying for them. That puts the burden on me and others like me.

We never have enough money for the people but we sure have billions of tax dollars for strangers. Somehow it just does not compute.

[eyeball]

When referring to THIS generation in a thread about refugees it's fair to say that primarily means ME refugees.

Casting the blame about the costs of these to taxpayers on lefties is pretty hilarious given the refugees are the direct result of ridiculously expensive foreign policies that were clearly supported by a majority of conservatives. The same brand of conservatism that also ignored and mocked warnings about the disaster it would help create and that vilified skeptics (lefties) as traitors and being with the enemy is the most amoral unprincipled ism on the planet, bar none.

You deserve every shred of angst you feel and I for one am cheered by how much it drives you nuts.

Edited March 13, 2016 by eyeball

[taxme]

First of all I had no say with our involvement in the fiasco of the ME. And I guess that it won't be just my taxes but yours also that will be going towards those illegals. I am happy about knowing that. Cheers.

[dre]

What proof do you think you could get? The Fraser institute put the cost of the Canadian immigration system at over $20 billion per year, and they weren't even talking about refugees.

You would have to look at the methodology employed by the study to know if its conclusions are worth anything. If all it did was look at immigration related government expenditures VS taxes collected from immigrants, then its entirely useless and misses the point.

Immigration is what keeps our population growing, and population growth is what keeps the services sector growing and that services sector accounts for most of our GDP. Population growth keeps the banking, real-estate, construction, and retail sectors afloat and growing. Even poor uneducated workers need homes, food, roads to drive on, and businesses to shop at, and providing these things to ourselves makes up most of the Canadian economy.

You've developed a strong opinion on this without looking at the whole picture.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You would have to look at the methodology employed by the study to know if its conclusions are worth anything. If all it did was look at immigration related government expenditures VS taxes collected from immigrants, then its entirely useless and misses the point.

Immigration is what keeps our population growing, and population growth is what keeps the services sector growing and that services sector accounts for most of our GDP. Population growth keeps the banking, real-estate, construction, and retail sectors afloat and growing. Even poor uneducated workers need homes, food, roads to drive on, and businesses to shop at, and providing these things to ourselves makes up most of the Canadian economy.

You've developed a strong opinion on this without looking at the whole picture.

A very good post. unlike many fake statement made by some others this one is Factual. Shows why governments (even the most conservative Harper) continued immigration at rapid pace even though likely the majority want a slow down.

Edited March 13, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

You would have to look at the methodology employed by the study to know if its conclusions are worth anything. If all it did was look at immigration related government expenditures VS taxes collected from immigrants, then its entirely useless and misses the point.

You might be interested in reading the report. Actually, this is the revised report, which deals with and responds to critics of the first report, and reiterates the average yearly cost to Canada of each immigrant is $6,000. It also shows that contrary to what many believe, immigrant earnings do not reach that of Canadians even after they have been here 25 years. It shows how heavily immigrant economic performance has deteriorated since the Mulroney government tripled immigration in 1986. It also analyses the economic performance of second generation immigrants, ie, the children of immigrants, and finds that their economic performance, just like that of their parents, depends, as I have been saying on their countries of origin.

“During the past quarter century, the earnings gap between recent immigrants and Canadian-born workers widened significantly... In 1980, recent immigrant men... earned 85 cents for each dollar received by Canadian-

born men... the corresponding number was 67 cents in 2000... (and) by 2005, the ratio had dropped to 63 cents” (Statistics Canada, 2008:21).

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/fiscal-transfers-to-immigrants-in-canada.pdf

Edited March 13, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

A very good post. unlike many fake statement made by some others this one is Factual.

You mean because he agrees with you? Apparently you don't know the difference between opinion and fact.

[eyeball]

First of all I had no say with our involvement in the fiasco of the ME. And I guess that it won't be just my taxes but yours also that will be going towards those illegals. I am happy about knowing that. Cheers.

I was addressing the general use of the phrase "THIS generation". I know it's now fashionable for conservatives to disavow themselves of every being supportive of the stupidity that's created so many refugees but I just don't believe it. There's WAY too much water that's passed under that particular bridge I'm afraid.