Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, ?Impact said:

Do you have some F-22's for sale?

 

F-22's are neither cheap or legal to export to Canada.   But I think F-16 Block 60's are still available.

[Derek 2.0]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

But I think F-16 Block 60's are still available.

 

True, likewise the Slam Eagle .......and it stands to reason, if an actual competition were held (as promised by Trudeau) to address this so called "capability gap" (found by the Liberal government), both would be worthy of examining.......

[Wilber]

5 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

No.......it hasn't.....go read that link I gave you again. 

I did and at this point it has been discussed and rejected. Will it be discussed again at some future date? Who knows. You link says dick about it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Derek 2.0 said:

 

True, likewise the Slam Eagle .......and it stands to reason, if an actual competition were held (as promised by Trudeau) to address this so called "capability gap" (found by the Liberal government), both would be worthy of examining.......

 

That's why this zombie exercise in a CF-18 replacement defies logic....the merits of the available aircraft have little to do with what will be chosen....some day....maybe.

 

[Derek 2.0]

7 minutes ago, Wilber said:

at this point it has been discussed and rejected.

 

Source? Chapter & verse please and thank you.

[Derek 2.0]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's why this zombie exercise in a CF-18 replacement defies logic

 

Oh there is no logic here......just a political promise that backed a feckless leader into a corner.

[The_Squid]

Quote

 

There are so many layers of misconduct in the F-35 affair that it is difficult to know where to start. Do we especially deplore the rigging of operational requirements by Defence officials to justify a decision that had already been made? Or should we focus on the government’s decision to buy the planes without even seeing the department’s handiwork? Is the scandal that the department deliberately understated the cost of the jets, in presentations to Parliament and the public? Or is it that its own internal figures, though they exceeded the published amounts by some $10-billon, were themselves, according to the Auditor General, gross underestimates?

---------------

Defence officials simply decided in advance which aircraft they wanted, and that was that. Guidelines were evaded, Parliament was lied to, and in the end the people of Canada were stuck with planes that may or may not be able to do the job set out for them, years after they were supposed to be delivered, at twice the promised cost.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-the-f-35-affair-is-a-fiasco-from-top-to-bottom

 

 

 

Yeah, Defence Dept. had nothing to do with it.....  

[DogOnPorch]

That the world was buying/flying F-4 Phantoms while we picked the CF-101 Voodoo says pretty much everything we need to know about how Canada picks aircraft: stupidly.

But, hey...it came with a free nuke.

 

[Wilber]

33 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

Source? Chapter & verse please and thank you.

Australian Aviation

 

That's why it isn't included in the White Paper.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Wilber

[Derek 2.0]

1 hour ago, Wilber said:

Australian Aviation

 

That's why it isn't included in the White Paper.

 

Excellent.....the same article Waldo cited.....over a year and a half ago, a story of a story, never confirmed or acknowledged by the Government 

 

edit to avoid confusing Wilber:

 

You repeated a rumor, that was never acknowledged by government, a ~year before the release of the white paper.....a white paper that clearly states no choice will be made until the 2020s.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Derek 2.0

[Derek 2.0]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

That the world was buying/flying F-4 Phantoms while we picked the CF-101 Voodoo says pretty much everything we need to know about how Canada picks aircraft: stupidly.

But, hey...it came with a free nuke.

 

 

Two corrections.......nobody but the Americans were buying Phantoms when we selected the Voodoo.......And the Phantom wasn't yet linked into SAGE-NORAD........but by the time the Trudeau government traded in our Voodoos for hand-me-down Air National Guard Voodoos in the early 70s, I fully agree, we should have been trading them in for early mark Phantoms, or better yet, new F-4Es.......

 

[Wilber]

27 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

Excellent.....the same article Waldo cited.....over a year and a half ago, a story of a story, never confirmed or acknowledged by the Government 

 

edit to avoid confusing Wilber:

 

You repeated a rumor, that was never acknowledged by government, a ~year before the release of the white paper.....a white paper that clearly states no choice will be made until the 2020s.

According to the article it was acknowledged by quotes from the Canberra's, Commander Air. A White Paper that makes no mention of the Prime Ministers request that it is included in the White Paper. But what the hey, it's always easier to make stuff up out of what isn't there.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Wilber

[Derek 2.0]

26 minutes ago, Wilber said:

According to the article it was acknowledged by quotes from the Canberra's, Commander Air.

 

Perhaps you'd better reread his quote, as he was clearly referring to the (then) upcoming RIMPAC........not the future of the ships, nor Australian "deep strike".......as you were saying about "making stuff up".......

 

 

[Omni]

I can't wait to see the outcome of an open competition. Especially when a lot of my tax bucks are at stake and of course a lot of pilots lives.

[Derek 2.0]

19 minutes ago, Omni said:

I can't wait to see the outcome of an open competition. Especially when a lot of my tax bucks are at stake and of course a lot of pilots lives.

Right you are OGFT.....I wonder if Trudeau has been assured by Boeing that the oxygen system in the Super Hornets he wants won't have possible lethal outcomes for pilots.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

Right you are OGFT.....I wonder if Trudeau has been assured by Boeing that the oxygen system in the Super Hornets he wants won't have possible lethal outcomes for pilots.

Do you mean like the ejection seats on the F 35?, and what's an ogft?

[Derek 2.0]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

Do you mean like the ejection seats on the F 35?

 

No, that was resolved several months ago........regardless, Trudeau proposes to sole source Super Hornets.......Super Hornets with a bunk oxygen system that Boeing can't figure out......I would hope Trudeau wouldn't put the lives of RCAF members at risk by buying the lethal lemon Super Hornet.

 

6 minutes ago, Omni said:

and what's an ogft?

 

Oh my mistake, I misread your name, OGFT was an insightful member of this community, when he wasn't gracing us with his knowledge and whimsy, was fighting pirates, disarming WMDs for the UN, a solider of fortune, being a shrimp boat captain, a ninja and the spokesman for Dos Equis beer...... Men truly wanted to be him, and the women wanted to be with him.

 

Mea Culpa  

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

No, that was resolved several months ago........regardless, Trudeau proposes to sole source Super Hornets.......Super Hornets with a bunk oxygen system that Boeing can't figure out......I would hope Trudeau wouldn't put the lives of RCAF members at risk by buying the lethal lemon Super Hornet.

 

 

Oh my mistake, I misread your name, OGFT was an insightful member of this community, when he wasn't gracing us with his knowledge and whimsy, was fighting pirates, disarming WMDs for the UN, a solider of fortune, being a shrimp boat captain, a ninja and the spokesman for Dos Equis beer...... Men truly wanted to be him, and the women wanted to be with him.

 

Mea Culpa  

I wouldn't fault him for his taste in beer.

[bush_cheney2004]

So all that has to happen is to find Canada some used, cheap replacements and this is a done deal ?  

I will start scouring U.S. Air National Guard units and Craigslist.   Maybe Israel can help out too.

[Derek 2.0]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

find Canada some used, cheap replacements and this is a done deal ?  

 

I've heard Boeing offered to put (as part of their sale of Super Hornets) the soon to be surplus Kuwaiti C/D Hornets through the center barrel program and zero hour them, and offer them up as attrition replacements to the USN, USMC and Canada......be a hell of a lot cheaper then buying interim Super Hornets......I'm surprised Trudeau didn't bring that up as an option, instead putting the staff under gag order........Of course it would be embarrassing if such information was leaked formally, with a paper trail, by DoD, USN, USMC and Boeing staff not bound by the Trudeau gag  

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Derek 2.0 said:

I've heard Boeing offered to put (as part of their sale of Super Hornets) the soon to be surplus Kuwaiti C/D Hornets through the center barrel program and zero hour them, .....

 

If Canada doesn't want to pony up the money for new aircraft and associated costs, it might want to consult with a much smaller nation that has a better air force...Israel.

Israel has prudently snapped up many surplus F-15 Eagles with lots of life still left in them, an upgraded them (C/D) for their needs.  

Don't wait Canada, these outstanding surplus air superiority fighter "jets" are going fast.

[DogOnPorch]

7 hours ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

Two corrections.......nobody but the Americans were buying Phantoms when we selected the Voodoo.......And the Phantom wasn't yet linked into SAGE-NORAD........but by the time the Trudeau government traded in our Voodoos for hand-me-down Air National Guard Voodoos in the early 70s, I fully agree, we should have been trading them in for early mark Phantoms, or better yet, new F-4Es.......

 

None-the-less...Canada always seems to be that kid that ends-up with the "YBox" on Christmas Morning. Dad promises that it's just like an XBox.

[DogOnPorch]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

F-22's are neither cheap or legal to export to Canada.   But I think F-16 Block 60's are still available.

 

But, but, but...one engine!!!!

Like yer heavy twin engine aer-e-o-plane is going to fly proper with one missing...

That's why there's 8 on a B-52...insurance!

Edited November 28, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[?Impact]

7 hours ago, Derek 2.0 said:

Super Hornets with a bunk oxygen system that Boeing can't figure out

Hopefully the F-35s don't have bunk oxygen systems like the F-22s that Lockheed can't figure out, but I guess only time will tell. There was a report by the Marines about an OBOGS failure on an F-35B this year. Maybe a return to bottled oxygen is needed as all these 'modern' systems seem to be plagued by problems.

[Derek 2.0]

31 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Hopefully the F-35s don't have bunk oxygen systems like the F-22s that Lockheed can't figure out, but I guess only time will tell.

 

They don't, the F-35s use a different version than the F-22 and Super Hornet........regardless Trudeau isn't sole sourcing these other aircraft.

 

34 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

There was a report by the Marines about an OBOGS failure on an F-35B this year.

 

Bullshit......... if there was a fleet wide systematic problem, it would have been grist for the anti-F-35 mill and reported everywhere, by everyone..........regardless Trudeau isn't sole sourcing the F-35B

 

39 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Maybe a return to bottled oxygen is needed

 

No, it died for very valid reasons.

 

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

If Canada doesn't want to pony up the money for new aircraft and associated costs,

 

Again, I think it has little to do with money with this government....