Donald vs Hillary

[BubberMiley]

Indeed. I think everybody agrees that the secret to Trump's success has been simple messages that appeal to simple people.

-k

In terms of cybersecurity, all you need to know is he has a 10-year-old who likes computers and there's nothing wrong with Russia.

[betsy]

It makes sense to you to challenge the election results only if Hillary wins because 800 people became citizens?

????

[betsy]

Indeed. I think everybody agrees that the secret to Trump's success has been simple messages that appeal to simple people.

-k

So many people are "simple" people - that however, doesn't mean they're simple-minded.

Trump supporters will support Trump, and Hillary supporters will support Hillary. It's the undecided that's up for grabs.

If the message is simple, and TO THE POINT - why wouldn't it resonate?

Folks with common sense don't need elaborate statements to understand the message. They see right away, and understand what Trump is saying.

Just look at the highfalutin phrases coming out from Hillary - "we need intelligence surge" she says - and I was thinking what the heck she means by that. She said, people coming up with more information! <slaps forehead>

Is that new? What goes with vigilance?

Why doesn't she just say......more information? Talk like everyday people!

That's gooblydegook talk.....that doesn't mean anything new! But her supporters lap it all up like as if she's come up with something brilliant and new!

Who is she trying to reach out to? The everyday folks? ....or the pretentious ones among her circle?

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

She was talking about improving the sharing of information among allied intelligence services. They knew what she was talking about and most everyone else paying attention did too.

I guess Trump's nonsense must not seem so unusual to his supporters if everything they hear is nonsense.

[Cum Laude]

Indeed. I think everybody agrees that the secret to Trump's success has been simple messages that appeal to simple people.

-k

As opposed to slick talking politicians who can smoothly deliver her lies.

[Cum Laude]

Uhhm a mic?

Would like to go see Milo Yiannopoulos speak?

[Moonlight Graham]

Would like to go see Milo Yiannopoulos speak?

What does he have do to with Clinton wearing a mic and a cord? But yes I would because he's a funny guy, in a Trumpy trainwreck kind of way.

[kimmy]

Would like to go see Milo Yiannopoulos speak?

Only if I got to fist-fight him afterwards. If I got to fight him afterward, it'd be a definite yes. But as Moonlight says, what's that got to do with anything?

-k

[kimmy]

So many people are "simple" people - that however, doesn't mean they're simple-minded.

His pitch is aimed straight at the simple-minded. His style of communication is aimed straight at the simple-minded. His whole campaign is aimed at the simple-minded. Simple-minded people are the only ones who believe his simplistic catch-phrases are real solutions to real problems.

If the message is simple, and TO THE POINT - why wouldn't it resonate?

Folks with common sense

Folks with common sense know that the problems America-- and the rest of the western world-- face are not easy to solve. I'm a pretty plain-folks type of person-- I'm an Albertan, my parents are both from farm families, and all my relatives are from farm families... and I understand the appeal of "plain talking", "straight-shooting" type politicians... But plain-talking and straight-shooting with no ideas behind it is just a load of what us prairie folk call "bull shit." Trump isn't a straight shooter, he's a bullshitter pretending to be a straight shooter.

don't need elaborate statements to understand the message. They see right away, and understand what Trump is saying.

...

That's gooblydegook talk.....that doesn't mean anything new! But her supporters lap it all up like as if she's come up with something brilliant and new!

Who is she trying to reach out to? The everyday folks? ....or the pretentious ones among her circle?

It's not the simple language that I object to. It's the simple ideas.

"I'm gonna stop jobs from leaving America and bring jobs back to America!" Yeah? Is he going to call up Apple and tell them "stop building your phones in China and build a factory in America"? And what's he going to do when they explain to him that real-world economic forces make that economically impossible? He knows why companies moved their low-skill jobs off-shore, because his own business did the same thing. If it's that easy, why is Trump's own Trump-branded merchandise made in China and Bangladesh?

As opposed to slick talking politicians who can smoothly deliver her lies.

As I keep pointing out, Hillary might be a big fat liar, but she's only the 2nd most dishonest person in this race.

There's simply no words to describe the logic that people should support Trump because Hillary is dishonest. "Hillary is dishonest... that's why I'm supporting the biggest scam-artist and con-man in America!" The cognitive dissonance is YUUUUUGE!

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

His pitch is aimed straight at the simple-minded. His style of communication is aimed straight at the simple-minded. His whole campaign is aimed at the simple-minded....

Folks with common sense know that the problems America-- and the rest of the western world-- face are not easy to solve. I'm a pretty plain-folks type of person-- I'm an Albertan, my parents are both from farm families, and all my relatives are from farm families... and I understand the appeal of "plain talking", "straight-shooting" type politicians...

So are you saying that all Albertans are "simple minded" ?

It's not the simple language that I object to. It's the simple ideas.

So please tell us how all the complex ideas have worked out so far....from Canada.

There's simply no words to describe the logic that people should support Trump because Hillary is dishonest. "Hillary is dishonest... that's why I'm supporting the biggest scam-artist and con-man in America!" The cognitive dissonance is YUUUUUGE!

No it's not....Clinton had her chance, and she blew it. The denial is YUUUUUGE !

[kimmy]

So are you saying that all Albertans are "simple minded" ?

I'm saying that as Canada's home of populist politicians, we appreciate "straight shooters". And have probably had more practice than most Canadians at trying to differentiate "straight talk" from BS.

So please tell us how all the complex ideas have worked out so far....from Canada.

I interpret this to mean "no, I don't know how Trump plans to 'stop jobs from leaving' or 'bring jobs home' or why his neck-ties and shirts are made in Bangladesh."

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm saying that as Canada's home of populist politicians, we appreciate "straight shooters". And have probably had more practice than most Canadians at trying to differentiate "straight talk" from BS.

So are Trump supporters, be they "simple minded" or Mensa members, not permitted to appreciate the same rhetorical style and strategy ?

BTW, "straight shooters" are appreciated in Quebec too...speaking French.

I interpret this to mean "no, I don't know how Trump plans to 'stop jobs from leaving' or 'bring jobs home' or why his neck-ties and shirts are made in Bangladesh."

It doesn't matter what I know or what you think you know in Canada. This is a political contest for partisan and populist (voting) support in the United States, just like any previous election. There is no extra credit for "complexity" or approval from "smarter" foreign nationals.

Please recall that "smart" Al Gore and John Kerry both lost to "simple minded" George W. Bush.

Edited September 28, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[kimmy]

So are Trump supporters, be they "simple minded" or Mensa members, not permitted to appreciate the same rhetorical style and strategy ?

As I already explained, it's not the rhetorical style I am pointing out, it's the complete lack of substance underlying it.

It doesn't matter what I know or what you think you know in Canada. This is a political contest for partisan and populist (voting) support in the United States, just like any previous election. There is no extra credit for "complexity" or approval from "smarter" foreign nationals.

Yes, this is what I am talking about. Trump knows that a vote from a gullible, simple-minded voter counts just as much as a vote from a well-informed one. And he's banking that America has more of the former than the latter.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

As I already explained, it's not the rhetorical style I am pointing out, it's the complete lack of substance underlying it.

I think you are missing the point here....Trump and Trump supporters are not concerned with meeting an expectation of intellectual excellence. Style counts more than substance because "substance" has prevailed before leading to current complexities and circumstances. This is not rocket science.

Yes, this is what I am talking about. Trump knows that a vote from a gullible, simple-minded voter counts just as much as a vote from a well-informed one. And he's banking that America has more of the former than the latter.

America has all kinds of voters, many who will not even vote. This is a political contest just like any other, and it really doesn't matter how victory is achieved. America is the same as it ever was, and the Constitution doesn't care how well informed the voters are. Americans will do this again in four years, just like clockwork.

[betsy]

His pitch is aimed straight at the simple-minded.

The basket of "deplorables," right?

And all those who fall for him belong in that basket. That kinda thinking, is what shows the simple-minded.

Hilllary's pitch was aimed at the simple-minded - most liberals, actually - when she gave that infamous phrase.

Trump's pitch, on the other hand, is aimed at people who don't like the way things are going in America, who distrust and are sickened by career politicians like Hillary running the show for so long.

Remember the saying, "fool me once....fool me twice..."

They know Hillary had lied so many times. They know Hillary isn't trustworthy. They know Hillary is in politics for self-interest. And yet.....they're hoping that maybe this time, she speaks from the heart.

Hillary's supporters are in denial. They're like children having this kind of faith in Hillary.

Now, who's being simple-minded?

Any rational, objective viewer would've seen right away that Clinton merely deflected, skated around, or totally ignored the factual accusations made about her on tv. Trump may've rambled.....but he explained, and gave references to fact-check (like his position against the war in Iraq). He gave a name (Hannity) who can support his claim....which the media totally ignored

That message, resonated too. It's supporting his claims about the lying media.

That's why after all the bad things they say about him, Trump's up in the polls.

Hillary spent millions in ads smearing and knocking him down.....he hardly spent any......and look where he is right now.

That alone, shows how good he is with strategies.

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

As I already explained, it's not the rhetorical style I am pointing out, it's the complete lack of substance underlying it.

Hillary hadn't explained hers, either! All she did was refer to her website. Trump did the same!

Substance-wise, what's not to the point when Trump talked about tax cut for companies, and lessening the regulations that strangles and discourage would-be employers??? Does that need any more explanation?

That's the thing with Hillary. She tries to "mesmerize" folks with her highfalutin words.....that hardly says anything new at all! As an example, why doesn't she explain exactly how she plans to do something new about this "intelligence surge" that the USA hasn't been doing already?

Hello? Obama's administration even went all out with dealings with Iran (with hopes perhaps of "cooperation" and

information-sharing). Didn't work! Can you really trust some of these countries? You think they're not playing any games? You think they're not out for their own self-interest - especially in these places where corruption is but the norm?

The naivete by these leaders is really jaw-dropping.

Perhaps, it's not naivete at all.....but something else. You get in bed with people who think nothing of corruptions, you're likely to end up doing the same. You can't trust most politicians....especially the ones who's been in the business for too long.

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

America has all kinds of voters, many who will not even vote.

Voters who don't vote, eh?

[Bryan]

Voters who don't vote, eh?

What part of that are you having trouble with? Many eligible voters do not always exercise that right.

[cybercoma]

If you don't vote then you're not a voter.

[BubberMiley]

If you don't vote then you're not a voter.

I wonder what part of that he's having trouble with.

[betsy]

Trump was silent about Benghazi, and Clinton Foundation. He didn't press her with her emails.......

......I don't think he simply forgot, or had abandoned them. It's strategic.

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

Trump was silent about Benghazi, and Clinton Foundation. He didn't press her with her emails.......

......I don't think he simply forgot, or had abandoned them. It's strategic.

I agree that it was strategic. Benghazi only works as a talking point among rabid conservatives who refuse to accept the truth. Bringing up the Clinton Foundation would open the door to questions about his shady foundation, which is just a money laundering tax haven for him. I'm also not surprised he didn't mention her husband's infidelity because, you know, Marla Maples.

[betsy]

I'm also not surprised he didn't mention her husband's infidelity because, you know, Marla Maples.

He was asked that question....he said he was tempted but refrained.

Hillary as an enabler, might still come up in future debates.

Hillary is having problems gaining the trust of women......

I agree that it was strategic. Benghazi only works as a talking point among rabid conservatives who refuse to accept the truth.

Bringing up the Clinton Foundation would open the door to questions about his shady foundation, which is just a money laundering tax haven for him.

I think it's strategic since he could be saving them for later. Maybe at the last debate?

Clinton Foundation will stress the point that Hillary and honesty are like water and oil.

Hillary, and anything connected with her, seems to always be in the midst of inquiries and questionings, eh?

All throughout her and Bill's political career. They always seem to be in front of some committees answering to some sort

of allegations.

With her huge experience with inquiries ....she might be "over-qualified."

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

He was asked that question....he said he was tempted but refrained.

Unlike when he was tempted by Marla Maples?

[betsy]

Unlike when he was tempted by Marla Maples?

The point is not resonating with you, Bubber. It's not really about adultery.

Go back and re-read.....get on the same page.

Edited September 28, 2016 by betsy