Donald vs Hillary

[cybercoma]

I also suspect that a lot of Trump's success has been due to being able to successfully con dumb-people.

However, I think that there's more to it.

Think back a few months to the Brexit vote. The polls told us that the young and the educated and the well-off voted to stay in the EU while the older and the the less-educated and the poor voted to exit. A lot of people just connected the dots and concluded that the anti-EU vote was from people who didn't know enough to see the Many Benefits of Globalization, or people who are struggling and blame outsiders, or people who are set in their ways and want things to be the way they used to be.

But that's overly simplistic. We also know that globalization has benefited the already wealthy and the highly educated, and adversely affected the poor and the less educated in western countries. It has accelerated the growth of inequality. And so to some degree you have to consider that the Brexit vote was people who have been left behind voting against the policies that have caused them to be left behind.

I think Donald Trump has tapped into the same sentiment. A lot of people think that they've been left behind, and they think Trump can change it. I think Bernie Sanders popularity was the result of the same sentiment, among a different demographic.

I don't think Trump actually has policies that can help the people who've been left behind by globalization, but some people are voting for him because they think otherwise.

-k

Trump doesn't have ANY policies. His entire campaign is a case study in post-truth politics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-truth_politics

That's the problem with these anti-intellectual types who look at post-secondary education as elitist.

Edited September 18, 2016 by cybercoma

[betsy]

Education doesn't matter. Embrace the ignorance and the pied pipers who rile the irrational emotion-driven masses.

Eh? Then, explain why you think there are no hidden Trump voters.

If you can't explain, that means you're the one running on irrational emotions.

Edited September 18, 2016 by betsy

[betsy]

Trump doesn't have ANY policies. His entire campaign is a case study in post-truth politics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-truth_politics

That's the problem with these anti-intellectual types who look at post-secondary education as elitist.

Think whatever you want to think of Trump. The fact remains the same.

Who are these "anti-intellectuals?" I don't think I've read anything that says some of the posters here are against intellectuals! Where on earth are you getting that? You've a strange way of understanding what you read.

Edited September 18, 2016 by betsy

[capricorn]

That's the problem with these anti-intellectual types who look at post-secondary education as elitist.

A person can be anti-intellectual and still believe in post-secondary education.

[cybercoma]

Eh? Then, explain why you think there are no hidden Trump voters.

If you can't explain, that means you're the one running on irrational emotions.

Why would I explain why some fictitious thing you believe in isn't there? That's like explaining to you that there is no God. I don't expect you to listen to reason in those discussions so I leave that to other people and don't bother explaining the obvious to you. If you were rational, you would understand why people don't have to explain why unobservable things aren't there.

[cybercoma]

A person can be anti-intellectual and still believe in post-secondary education.

Then you clearly don't understand what the hell youre arguing about when you throw a tantrum about Trump's voters being less educated.

[kimmy]

Trump doesn't have ANY policies. His entire campaign is a case study in post-truth politics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-truth_politics

That's the problem with these anti-intellectual types who look at post-secondary education as elitist.

I don't disagree that he's a carnie and a pied piper and a con man.

But of the concrete positions he has, two of them are opposition to the TPP and "build the wall"-- crack down on illegal workers. Can you really blame the poor and the unskilled for supporting both of those positions?

"Build the wall" and "deport illegals" are often framed as racist positions, and perhaps in many cases they are. But the widespread availability of illegal workers in the US is a factor keeping wages down. Here in Canada, many progressives oppose the Temporary Foreign Worker program for the same reason: it's not because they hate brown people, it's because they're opposed to scheme that rigs the labor market and undermines the wages of the poorest working Canadians. And the TPP is in large measure a coordinated assault on the value of unskilled labor in western countries. Why wouldn't unskilled workers be opposed to it?

-k

[Argus]

"Build the wall" and "deport illegals" are often framed as racist positions, and perhaps in many cases they are. But the widespread availability of illegal workers in the US is a factor keeping wages down. Here in Canada, many progressives oppose the Temporary Foreign Worker program for the same reason: it's not because they hate brown people, it's because they're opposed to scheme that rigs the labor market and undermines the wages of the poorest working Canadians.

The economy almost always trumps (no pun intended) everything else.

Luzerne County is a striking example of what can happen to a region grappling with and frustrated by economic, technological and societal change. In a place where the population is predominantly white and older, long-held grievances about lost jobs appear to be combining with something larger and more nebulous: a sense of a lost way of life and a feeling that the country people know is being taken from them.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-election/trumpland-how-this-pennsylvania-county-learned-to-love-the-donald/article31930249/

[bush_cheney2004]

"Build the wall" and "deport illegals" are often framed as racist positions, and perhaps in many cases they are.

Good enough for "racist" President Obama, who has deported more illegals than any other president. Obama's Department of Homeland Security has reported the number of overstays as well:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/03/homeland-security-produces-first-estimate-of-foreign-visitors-to-u-s-who-overstay-deadline-to-leave/

Edited September 18, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCoastRunner]

Good enough for "racist" President Obama, who has deported more illegals than any other president.

Yes but try and tell that to Trump supporters. They refuse to hear any of it.

[capricorn]

Then you clearly don't understand what the hell youre arguing about when you throw a tantrum about Trump's voters being less educated.

You're the one who threw out the term "anti-intellectual". I think you should look up the terms "intellectual" and "intelligent" as it seems you're confusing the two. They have very different meanings.

And before you start guffawing under your breath at my writing skills, FYI English is my second language and I am a graduate of the University of Ottawa, student #********.

[WestCoastRunner]

You're the one who threw out the term "anti-intellectual". I think you should look up the terms "intellectual" and "intelligent" as it seems you're confusing the two. They have very different meanings.

And before you start guffawing under your breath at my writing skills, FYI English is my second language and I am a graduate of the University of Ottawa, student #*********.

You probably shouldn't quote your student #. You should delete it or the mods should.

Edited September 19, 2016 by kimmy
good suggestion, WCR.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes but try and tell that to Trump supporters. They refuse to hear any of it.

There are still 11,000,000 illegals to go.

[capricorn]

You probably shouldn't quote your student #. You should delete it or the mods should.

I have nothing to hide and am proud of my accomplishments against great odds. So no, my record stands. I doubt anyone is that interested in little ol'e me to dig into my private life.

[WestCoastRunner]

There are still 11,000,000 illegals to go.

So this is where the under educated comes in. They believe that this will happen and that it will save them jobs. It's not gonna happen

[WestCoastRunner]

I have nothing to hide and am proud of my accomplishments against great odds. So no, my record stands. I doubt anyone is that interested in little ol'e me to dig into my private life.

Then you are naive. Identity theft starts with the smallest information available. If I were you I would not broadcast such personal information online.

Edited September 18, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[bush_cheney2004]

So this is where the under educated comes in. They believe that this will happen and that it will save them jobs. It's not gonna happen

Deportation of illegals has been a longstanding issue in U.S. federal and state politics. Donald Trump did not invent it.

[WestCoastRunner]

Deportation of illegals has been a longstanding issue in U.S. federal and state politics. Donald Trump did not invent it.

You didn't address my post. If you are going to quote it at least address it. Edited September 18, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[bush_cheney2004]

You didn't address my post. If you are going to quote it at least address it.

Yes I did.....the "under educated" (and many well educated) have been demanding tougher border security and deportations for decades.

[WestCoastRunner]

Yes I did.....the "under educated" (and many well educated) have been demanding tougher border security and deportations for decades.

Deporting 11,000,000 isn't going to happen. You know it and I know it. And no jobs will be saved.

[bush_cheney2004]

Deporting 11,000,000 isn't going to happen. You know it and I know it. And no jobs will be saved.

Then deport 2,000,000...or 4,000,000...or 7,456,932. Legal immigrants are some of the harshest critics of illegals, also demanding arrests and deportations. This is a winning issue for Trump.

[cybercoma]

I don't disagree that he's a carnie and a pied piper and a con man.

But of the concrete positions he has, two of them are opposition to the TPP and "build the wall"-- crack down on illegal workers. Can you really blame the poor and the unskilled for supporting both of those positions?

"Build the wall" and "deport illegals" are often framed as racist positions, and perhaps in many cases they are. But the widespread availability of illegal workers in the US is a factor keeping wages down. Here in Canada, many progressives oppose the Temporary Foreign Worker program for the same reason: it's not because they hate brown people, it's because they're opposed to scheme that rigs the labor market and undermines the wages of the poorest working Canadians. And the TPP is in large measure a coordinated assault on the value of unskilled labor in western countries. Why wouldn't unskilled workers be opposed to it?

-k

The problem is he has absolutely no policy position on these things. Build a wall sounds nice but he's given as many different dollar values and plans for accomplishing that as the number of times he's been asked the question. There is no policy behind the rhetoric. It's just appeals to emotion.

Oh and that's the problem with anti-intellectualism because apparently it's elitist for someone to look at the rhetoric and have the intelligence to ask, "how are you going to do that?"

[Hal 9000]

I can't believe that Hillary supports are claiming to be be smarter, that dumb people are being conned by Trump. Hillary has lied and conned every day of her 40 year presidential run. I haven't seen this many lies and ignored evidence since the OJ trial.

"Voting for Hillary is like watching a McDonald's employee spit in your Berger and eating it anyway".

P.s I don't know where I heard that line, but it's the best summary of a Clinton supporter I've heard yet.

[kimmy]

I can't believe that Hillary supports are claiming to be be smarter, that dumb people are being conned by Trump. Hillary has lied and conned every day of her 40 year presidential run. I haven't seen this many lies and ignored evidence since the OJ trial.

Hillary might have a long-standing problem with telling the truth or acting transparently, but she's still just the second-biggest liar in this race. "Truth", for Trump, is a purely subjective concept defined entirely by how loudly the audience in front of him is applauding the words coming out of his pie-hole at that moment.

"Voting for Hillary is like watching a McDonald's employee spit in your Berger and eating it anyway".

If that's the case, then voting for Trump is like turning up your nose at that spit-in burger and going outside to eat a steaming load of dog-crap off the sidewalk instead.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

If that's the case, then voting for Trump is like turning up your nose at that spit-in burger and going outside to eat a steaming load of dog-crap off the sidewalk instead.

In Canada, this is promoted as "strategic voting".