Russian Jet Downed by Turkish Planes

overthere · November 25, 2015

It does make Russia blink though.

They know the West will turn turtle and not intervene in the Russian assault on the enemies of Assad, which is who the Russians were attacking in this case. The Russians don't really give a stuff about ISIS, unless it is ISIS versus the Kurds- then the Turks will support whomever kills Kurds.

While Russia and Putin are overly fond of brinkmanship- the rubber hits the road when Turkey(NATO member) is shooting down their warplanes. Putin will exact revenge from Turkey, but not militarily.

Mission accomplished for the Turks, in a way.

-1=e^ipi · November 25, 2015

Canada either needs to leave NATO or kick Turkey out of NATO.

-1=e^ipi · November 25, 2015

I'm going to make a layman's guess here that this incident won't amount to anything and I hope I'm right.

Of course it won't. Putin is intelligent and knows the consequences of retaliation.

Due to NATO, Turkey can shoot down Russian jets with impunity in order to help their Islamist allies, and Russia cannot do anything about it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

msj · November 25, 2015

Canada either needs to leave NATO or kick Turkey out of NATO.

You are so quick to believe any little thing your friend Putin says, aren't you?

Argus · November 25, 2015

I can remember when Canada was respected as a problem solver.

No, you remember a fantasy.

Harper was not a "Great Satan". He had a vision of what Canada should be, tried to change us and it did not work. And as Prime Minister did not do any "hard and heavy and bloody work required in places like Afghanistan" - he sent our young out to do it. Many came home in body bags.

Aside from the cliche about body bags - the dead actually came home in caskets - this interesting view of reality leaves out the fact that it was the Liberal party and Jean Chretien who sent our troops to Afghanistan in the first place, five full years before Stephen Harper was elected.

Argus · November 25, 2015

Of course it won't. Putin is intelligent and knows to consequences of retaliation.

There have been numerous reports that Putin is a megalomaniac. It's quite possible Erdogan is as well.

I do not really want to be on either side if they decide to start pummeling each other. Neither side is in the right on this.

Moonlight Graham · November 25, 2015

I'm of the belief that "don't fly in our airspace!" is a less important principle than "don't poke the bear."

Ya but at least there's one member in NATO who won't let Putin eff with them.

Not flying warplanes in a foreign country's airspace unless having a permission is very basic international relations. But honestly I don't believe either government on their word, we don't really know where the plane was shot down, though more likely than not over Turkey.

Honestly, the West and Putin/Russia need to grow up then kiss & make up. People call Putin a bully, but the US/West has also tried to bully and provoke Putin, ie: in 2002 pulling out of the 1972 AMB treaty and trying to set up a missile defense shield in Europe over Russian objections, and trying to sign up Russian neighbours to NATO and the EU. Russia sees the US/NATO/EU as a threat, and not for illegitimate reasons. Seeing things from Russia's perspective makes Putin seem like less of a bad dude and more of a defender of Russian interests. Honestly is there that much difference in the US/UK invading Iraq (legally, so they say) vs Russia annexing Crimea (legally via referendum, so they say)? Many people in Russia like Putin.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Moonlight Graham

DogOnPorch · November 25, 2015

I hear that Russia has put the big boys to work. Tu-95's, Tu-22M3's and Tu-160's are now pounding enemy positions. First time in combat action for the old Tu-95 if I'm not mistaken.

Not sure who the enemy is in this case, mind-you...lol.

-1=e^ipi · November 25, 2015

Neither side is in the right on this.

I disagree. Turkey shot down a Russian jet for no good reason. What did Russia do that was wrong? Is fighting ISIS wrong?

ReeferMadness · November 25, 2015

There was no Turkish air space violation. None. This is pure Western/Turkey propaganda. See RT and Sputniknews. They have the real radar flight data.

No one disputes the Turkish plane was in Syrian air space when it shot down the Russian plane. Perhaps Assad should give the Russian's authorization to shot down Turkish plane that enter its air space... What do you think?

The Russian media aren't exactly famous for being impartial. :rolleyes:

And this is the first I've heard that the Turkish plane was in Syrian air space. But what if it was? I don't think Assad wants NATO to pack up and go home because that's going to leave him and the Russians to face the all the various rebel factions, including ISIS. There's a reason that he was losing the civil war - he wasn't very popular.

-TSS- · November 25, 2015

I can't see how NATO can stand up for Turkey in this. If it turns out that the incursion lasted a few seconds, NATO should tell Turkey that they're on their own. They need to make immediate reparations to Russia.

Stoltenberg has already declared that NATO will stand by Turkey.

Besides, if NATO did what you are proposing its credibility would be shattered.

socialist · November 25, 2015

The Russian media aren't exactly famous for being impartial.

And this is the first I've heard that the Turkish plane was in Syrian air space. But what if it was? I don't think Assad wants NATO to pack up and go home because that's going to leave him and the Russians to face the all the various rebel factions, including ISIS. There's a reason that he was losing the civil war - he wasn't very popular.

I din't know you were an expert on Russian media. Good to have one of you guys around.

Qadaafi (sp) was popular in Libya and look what Obama had done to him?

TimG · November 26, 2015

Stoltenberg has already declared that NATO will stand by Turkey.

NATO only comes into play with an invasion of Turkey and if Russia was stupid enough to try that then NATO would have to act. Russia could shoot a Turkey plane down "by accident" over Syria and there would be no obligation.

msj · November 26, 2015

I disagree. Turkey shot down a Russian jet for no good reason. What did Russia do that was wrong? Is fighting ISIS wrong?

Russia has flown into Turkey airspace on many occasions. No reason to believe that it didn't happen here too.

What did Turkey do wrong? Is protecting your sovereign airspace wrong?

-1=e^ipi · November 26, 2015

Russia has flown into Turkey airspace on many occasions.

Yes, and that is no good reason to shoot down Russian jets if they are fighting ISIS and it's like 1 km into airspace.

What did Turkey do wrong?

They side with ISIS and shoot down a Russian jet. They've attacked to Kurds and funded 'rebels'. They are lead by an Islamist government.

Is protecting your sovereign airspace wrong?

Not always.

On the other hand, Turkey has flown into Syrian airspace on many occasions. Can Russia therefore shoot down Turkish jets that go into Syrian airspace? Of course not, because that would cause all of NATO to retaliate and therefore nuclear war. Hurray for double standards.

Edited November 26, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

msj · November 26, 2015

Yes, and that is no good reason to shoot down Russian jets if they are fighting ISIS and it's like 1 km into airspace.

Doesn't matter - sovereign airspace is sovereign airspace.

They side with ISIS and shoot down a Russian jet. They've attacked to Kurds and funded 'rebels'. They are lead by an Islamist government.

Turkey has more complicated relations than Russia. Does not justify a violation of their airspace.

On the other hand, Turkey has flown into Syrian airspace on many occasions. Can Russia therefore shoot down Turkish jets that go into Syrian airspace? Of course not, because that would cause all of NATO to retaliate and therefore nuclear war. Hurray for double standards.

Russia may shoot a one down. NATO will not retaliate.

There will not be a war over this incident - especially nuclear.

Turkey doesn't have any bombs (on its own) and NATO is not going to be dropping any on their behalf no matter how many chicken littles think otherwise.

The sky is not falling so relax.

Edited November 26, 2015 by msj

-1=e^ipi · November 26, 2015

Doesn't matter - sovereign airspace is sovereign airspace.

And fighting ISIS is fighting ISIS.

Turkey has more complicated relations than Russia. Does not justify a violation of their airspace.

The claim that Russia violated airspace is disputed.

And Turkey was violating Syrian airspace at the time.

msj · November 26, 2015

And Turkey was violating Syrian airspace at the time.

How is that relevant?

If Syria shoots down a Turkish jet then do we cry like the Russians? Do we expect Turkey to cry like Russia?

-1=e^ipi · November 26, 2015

If Syria shoots down a Turkish jet then do we cry like the Russians? Do we expect Turkey to cry like Russia?

You realized a person died over this right? And that it helps ISIS, right? Why trivialize it by calling it crying?

Argus · November 26, 2015

I disagree. Turkey shot down a Russian jet for no good reason. What did Russia do that was wrong? Is fighting ISIS wrong?

Russia is not fighting ISIS. It is bombing the opponents to Asad who are supported by the Turks and the West.

And it has been supporting Asad, a pig of a man, with arms and military aid.

msj · November 26, 2015

You realized a person died over this right? And that it helps ISIS, right? Why trivialize it by calling it crying?

ISIS is not the only enemy.

Russia is too.

Argus · November 26, 2015

Russia has flown into Turkey airspace on many occasions. No reason to believe that it didn't happen here too.

What did Turkey do wrong? Is protecting your sovereign airspace wrong?

It flew into their airspace, even by their own claims, for a few seconds.

msj · November 26, 2015

Russia is not fighting ISIS. It is bombing the opponents to Asad who are supported by the Turks and the West.

And it has been supporting Asad, a pig of a man, with arms and military aid.

Agreed.

Russia is not a white knight.

-1=e^ipi · November 26, 2015

ISIS is not the only enemy.

Russia is too.

Russia is not our enemy. Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states are. Most people are just too stupid to realize it.

Russia is not fighting ISIS. It is bombing the opponents to Asad who are supported by the Turks and the West.

And it has been supporting Asad, a pig of a man, with arms and military aid.

Glad to see you have been brainwashed by western media propaganda.

Those 'moderate rebels' being bombed by Russia are primarily allies of ISIS. Most of them believe that gays and apostates should be killed.

Edited November 26, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

Argus · November 26, 2015

Agreed.

Russia is not a white knight.

On the other hand, Turkey has been supporting ISIS, and its so called bombing intervention was aimed at the Kurds, who the West supports, so it could restart its civil war and win an election through fear mongering. Its government is corrupt, Islamist and anti-democratic.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Argus