Guest Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The same is true of that which muslims hold us responsible for. What, all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Right. Islam never killed anyone. It can't hold a gun, or a knife, and there's nowhere to strap an explosive belt. You think an ideology can't be held responsible or are you saying only those who hold that ideology can be held responsible? Did Communism kill millions of people? What about Fascism? Should we respect Fascists and Communists until they actually kill? What if they make speeches and write books saying others should kill in the name of Fascism or Communism? What about a Fascist government which spends billions of dollars every year exporting their ideology abroad, funding schools in poor areas, for example, to teach Fascism to children who grow up to be Fascists and kill people? Do we reserve blame only for the end product, the angry Fascist (or Islamist) who murders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Well, actually, I'm not sure I agree there. As an atheist, I understand that the word of God is actually the word of man from a bygone era. Its purpose was control. Today we have other means of control. You realize that if you write that in many Muslim countries you can be put to death for blasphemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 And Christians belief the bible is 'the very word of God', Nope. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You realize that if you write that in many Muslim countries you can be put to death for blasphemy? I'm not sure what that's supposed to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Nope. Try again. I'm sorry but you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Small C in regards to what Argus stated about Christianity not being the literal word of God go to: bibehub.com/2_timothy/3-16.htm. I appreciate you may be Muslim and so don't understand this. I met Christians. They like to play golf and eat white bread and they have this weird fixation with checkered pants, mayonnaise and Buicks, but I am pretty sure they realize the New testament is inspired by God but not written by God itself. They even at one point made a version of the Bible with red print called the King James version so you would easily see when the words were said to have come from Jesus and not the writer to help. Now me I like the more modern versions. I tend though to be in a conspiracy with Unitarians and Agnostic Christians and wacky Superreconsructionistreformist Jews so watch it. However I have had fun over the years debating Jesuit priests my favourite. Much more dry than than Baptists or Episcopalians. Christadelphians man they are confusing. Also the Coptics are often more orthodox Jewish in ceremony than many of us Jews. Its a fun world. You should try sit with some of us including our progressive Muslim friends who sound just like me. we all eat bagels and lox and don't think one is evil if they have sexual urges about Beyoncé. Ah religion. Its something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I appreciate you may be Muslim and so don't understand this. I'm a Confirmed Catholic turned atheist. The Bible is supposed to be the word of God if you are actually a Christian. The rest of your post is just fluff. Islam and the current state of it is a blight on the world. The same is generally true to a lesser extent of all other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 What if they make speeches and write books saying others should kill in the name of Fascism or Communism? Usually these ideologies promote killing in the form of 'defense', including ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Usually these ideologies promote killing in the form of 'defense', including ours. Cite please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I think this is interesting: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=124494788&m=124838297 It seems that religion is less the problem than the culture and the lack of education. Lots of jihadis had university degrees, including this guy, some of those who flew planes into the WTC, Osama bin Laden, and the guy who led the Paris attacks. Edited December 4, 2015 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Lots of jihadis had university degrees, including this guy, some of those who flew plains into the WTC, Osama bin Laden, and the guy who led the Paris attacks. Culture more than education I reckon. Poverty is also a BS excuse for terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I think a dash of poverty and a seasoning of military actions from alien forces also contributes. This guy was not poor and was born in California. So what's the relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's actually a very interesting piece for something so concise. The Bible is equally if not more violent than the Quran. The opposite is true of their respective followers. The problem lies in the literal interpretation by the followers of Islam, something that doesn't happen in Christianity outside of places like the Central African Republic and Uganda anymore (at least, not all that often). The bible has been re-interpreted a number of times over the centuries. The Koran has been deemed as the absolute word of God and any new or modern attempt at re-interpreting it is deemed blasphemy, which can easily get you killed in the Muslim world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) That particular act is not limited to Muslims. Yes, it pretty much is. This was not a case of a guy who was mental, who as bullied or fired, or otherwise unhappy at work. This was a joint action by a couple, which is pretty unique, and they had clearly been planning to do something similar, had prepared pipe bombs and a lot of weapons and ammo. What made them decide to hit this place when they did we might never know. Why did he leave angry? Was it because it was a holiday party and people were treating it like it was Christmas? Did he not appreciate Christmas decorations? Did some other overt act of infidel religious beliefs anger him? But it's pretty clear that if he hadn't been angered by something there someone else would have died elsewhere as those pipe bombs were set off. Edited December 4, 2015 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 What, all of them? It seems to me that Muslim governments have spent the last fifty years blaming the West (and Israel of course) for all their problems, and since there is virtually no free press in the Muslim world their media, their schools, all reflect that view. Muslims generally believe it, and there is a great love of conspiracy theories there. For example, many Iraqis believe ISIS is actually being run by the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Cite please. Sorry, I really don't have one. I have to admit, though, that I'm wrong in terms of both major ideologies mentioned in that they both call for political violence as a means to an end so they're not pacifist ideologies at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Sorry, I really don't have one. I have to admit, though, that I'm wrong in terms of both major ideologies mentioned in that they both call for political violence as a means to an end so they're not pacifist ideologies at all. Yes, and so does Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, and so does Islam. It's possible to be Communist, Islamic and maybe even be fascistic and still be peaceful. In fact, with religions it's commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I'm a Confirmed Catholic turned atheist. The Bible is supposed to be the word of God if you are actually a Christian. The rest of your post is just fluff. Islam and the current state of it is a blight on the world. The same is generally true to a lesser extent of all other religions. Why then are their books with names of people in the Bible? If the Bible is the written by God, why is it in third person? Edited December 4, 2015 by DogOnPorch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) It's possible to be Communist, Islamic and maybe even be fascistic and still be peaceful. In fact, with religions it's commonplace. Yes, it's possible, but you are still embracing and accepting a political ideology which calls for violence to spread it, and which calls for discriminatory practices and often violence against various people for various reasons. Edited December 4, 2015 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Why then are their books with names of people in the Bible? If the Bible is the written by God, why is it in third person? It is divinely inspired. That's the point of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) It is divinely inspired. That's the point of it. The Quran was written by Allah as dictated to Mohammed. This after his nighttime voyage on a winged beast accompanied by the angel Gabriel to the so-called 'furthest mosque' Thus the difference. BTW: I'm not clear as to why their are human names on many of the Bible's books. Did the people who are accredited to writing them claim to have been dictated this information verbatim from God? Edited December 4, 2015 by DogOnPorch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The Quran was written by Allah as dictated to Mohammed. This after his nighttime voyage on a winged beast accompanied by the angel Gabriel to the so-called 'furthest mosque' Thus the difference. BTW: I'm not clear as to why their are human names on many of the Bible's books. Did the people who are accredited to writing them claim to have been dictated this information verbatim from God? Again, a distinction without any real difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Again, a distinction without any real difference. Only because you are saying so, apparently. So did God write the Bible or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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