DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Shocking isn't it. Your exaggeration? Not really. You've denied a lot of history tonight. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Your exaggeration? Not really. You've denied a lot of history tonight.Sorry if the history deflates your discussion, but that's just the way of the world.
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Sorry if the history deflates your discussion, but that's just the way of the world. Medieval European armies were not capable of that much mayhem in one shot. The biggest single massacre of the Albigensian Crusade was Beziers at 20,000 dead. If one takes-in all the famine and plague also related to Medieval warfare, over the twenty years of the Crusade, one can concoct any number they wish as a total death toll. But actual direct deaths are rather low like most Medieval fighting. Either way...Christianity had spread to France 800-1000 years previous. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Medieval European armies were not capable of that much mayhem in one shot. The biggest single massacre of the Albigensian Crusade was Beziers at 20,000 dead. If one takes-in all the famine and plague also related to Medieval warfare, over the twenty years of the Crusade, one can concoct any number they wish as a total death toll. But actual direct deaths are rather low like most Medieval fighting. Either way...Christianity had spread to France 800-1000 years previous. Millions killed. Around ten seems to be the agreed upon number. Perhaps you have heard the statement that came from the era...“Kill them all, God will know his own”.
Special Delivery Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) America's racism has unfortunately spread to Canada. The important question IMO is "why?" and I have a theory. Every government wants to have a passive and obedient populace which makes management and administration and... foreign policy easier to control. America's corrupt govt. has used 911 to spread fear of Islam around the world and especially in their own backyard and here in Canada. Harper went along with the nonsense to spread the fear so we would all feel the need for "government protection" and be willing to sacrifice our civil rights and privacy to get it. Truth be told, terrorism has root causes that grew from American foreign policy gone very bad. Fabricated wars based on lies (Iraq invasion) was the last straw for Muslims who saw the invasion for what it really was - oil exploitation. And when 400,000 f the 600,000 people who died were civilians - not soldiers, it is not hard to see how surviving family members want revenge for the death of their children, parents, and grandparents. To Muslims they became freedom fighters, but America labeled them "terrorists" and they want Canadians and everyone else in the world to live in their denial. American troops used chemical weapons in 2007 t kill over 2,000 civilians in Fallujah, Iraq. There were massacres at Haditha and elsewhere. We are expected to ignore all this and blindly fear all Muslims. This is what America wants, and what Harper also wanted. Why? Because if we live in fear, we have n time t pay attention to corruption like this http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25539-would-you-prosecute-stephen-harper-if-he-concealed-drug-smuggling/and other similar stuff. Besides, wars are profitable for the Western elite. Arms sales accounts for 30% of all international trade - dollar-wise. Wake up Canada. We are being manipulated to live in fear. Canadian troops should only be used as UN peacekeeping troops and not as America's firewood to keep the fires of hate burning. IF the situation was reversed and you came home from work one day and found your house in smoldering ruins from a "smart bomb" and stray dogs nibbling on bits and pieces of your children or parents scattered in all directions, would YOU also not want to find the barbaric bastards responsible and kill them? BE HONEST! Did you know that for every "terrorist" killed so far by American drones, 39 innocent civilians were killed "by mistake"? Read this and you will know what genuine terrorism is all about http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes/index.html. IMHO this is no less evil than some innocent journalist getting beheaded. Two wrongs never make a right so please do not put words in my mouth, but ALL Terrorism must be stopped - AT THE ROOT CAUSE LEVEL. Edited February 7, 2016 by Special Delivery
dialamah Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 You've literally spent months, every post you make tells us that muslims and Christians are the same, that all religions are the same, that muslim men and western men are the same, The gist of my arguments is that people all over world are similar (not the same), there are both good and bad in every group, and some extremists in every group. Selecting one group as being 'worse' than all the others is bound to fail, since all groups are composed of people. that muslims and the western world treat women and the same, Well, I don't think I've ever claimed that women's rights are the same the world over. that the west has just as much terrorism as Islamics. I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world, and that at the moment other forms of terror are more prevalent in the Western world than is Islamic terrorism, although that may change in the future. I've also said that from the perspective of innocents killed/maimed by Western drones and bombs, we look just like terrorists.
Argus Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) The idea that Islam imposed itself at the point of a sword is only western fiction fabricated at the time of the Crusades. Far more violence in the Bible than in the Quran. This is ludicrous. How far will you Islam supporters go to deny basic history? Islam most definitely was spread by the point of a sword. Not even Muslim historians try to deny that. Egypt used to be Christian, so did Syria and Lebanon. Muslim armies swept into them just as they did into India, slaughtering whole cities full of people. You converted to Islam by the sword or you got your head lopped off. Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during the Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million. https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/islamic-invasion-of-india-the-greatest-genocide-in-history/ Edited February 7, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Did you know that for every "terrorist" killed so far by American drones, 39 innocent civilians were killed "by mistake"? Read this and you will know what genuine terrorism is all about http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes/index.html. IMHO this is no less evil than some innocent journalist getting beheaded. Two wrongs never make a right so please do not put words in my mouth, but ALL Terrorism must be stopped - AT THE ROOT CAUSE LEVEL. Indeed. The number of innocents killed by Western military is not disseminated by the Western media with nearly the enthusiasm of the number of people killed by Islamic extremists. The journalists who do report on Western terrorism are lonely voices, barely heard as they drowned out by the hysteria of the likes of Donald Trump. Edited February 7, 2016 by dialamah
dialamah Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 No. Yes. The Church started killing unbelievers as early as the 4th century. The killing (often with torture) of heretics, church splinter groups, dissenters, atheists, agnostics, deists, pagans, infidels and unbelievers was supported by almost all mainstream Christian theology for over a thousand years, starting with the intolerant St. Augustine (died 430 AD).
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Millions killed. Around ten seems to be the agreed upon number. Perhaps you have heard the statement that came from the era...“Kill them all, God will know his own”. No....not 10 million killed. That's the military dead of WW1. You guys sorta guess re: history, eh? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Yes. I'm disputing the Stalingrad-like casualty figures. Not Christian persecution. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 This is ludicrous. How far will you Islam supporters go to deny basic history? Islam most definitely was spread by the point of a sword. Not even Muslim historians try to deny that. Egypt used to be Christian, so did Syria and Lebanon. Muslim armies swept into them just as they did into India, slaughtering whole cities full of people. You converted to Islam by the sword or you got your head lopped off. Muslim historian Firishta [full name Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah, born in 1560 and died in 1620], the author of the Tarikh-i Firishta and the Gulshan-i Ibrahim, was the first to give an idea to the medieval bloodbath that was India during Muslim rule, when he declared that over 400 million Hindus got slaughtered during the Muslim invasion and occupation of India. Survivors got enslaved and castrated. India’s population is said to have been around 600 million at the time of Muslim invasion. By the mid 1500’s the Hindu population was 200 million. https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/islamic-invasion-of-india-the-greatest-genocide-in-history/ One poster actually thought Hebrews were Christians...that's the level of historical context. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I'm disputing the Stalingrad-like casualty figures. Not Christian persecution. Ok, my mistake. Although, given the fact that Christian persecution continued until at least the 1700s, which is when the last "witches" were killed in Europe, the high figures you dispute might just be accurate.
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Ok, my mistake. Although, given the fact that Christian persecution continued until at least the 1700s, which is when the last "witches" were killed in Europe, the high figures you dispute might just be accurate. The Witch Hunts of the 17th century killed about 60,000 in Europe give or take. Mostly in German States. Folks still burn witches in some places...and practice slavery. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 America's racism has unfortunately spread to Canada. Canada always had racism. I'm not sure the relevance of your misguided statement, however. One thing which certainly spread to Canada is political correctness. America's corrupt govt. has used 911 to spread fear of Islam around the world and especially in their own backyard You don't think the 28,000 Muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11 have had a hand in that? Truth be told, terrorism has root causes that grew from American foreign policy gone very bad. Seriously? Have you ever read a single history book? Arabs were hunting down Jews in the streets of Jerusalem before Israel was born. And when 400,000 f the 600,000 people who died were civilians - not soldiers, it is not hard to see how surviving family members want revenge for the death of their children, parents, and grandparents. That's interesting logic given most of the civilians killed during the Iraq violence were killed by anti-government forces. Very few were killed by US or western forces. By far the majority of deaths have come from Muslims killing Muslims. https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011/ To Muslims they became freedom fighters, but America labeled them "terrorists" When they blow up markets and mosques that is not freedom fighting. When they kidnap washerwomen and behead them because they worked on a government base, that's not freedom fighting. When they target schoolchildren that's not freedom fighting. And to reiterate, these people you call 'freedom fighters' were the ones responsible for most civilian casualties. Did you know that for every "terrorist" killed so far by American drones, 39 innocent civilians were killed "by mistake"? No, and neither do you. That study of one particular area only points out that a lot of people who were AROUND the target died. Given the targets were terrorist organizers, it is highly likely most of those killed with them were also terrorists. Of course, that requires the use of basic logic... "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hal 9000 Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I think maybe it would help if people could differentiate bible passages that are Old Testament and Christian. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I think maybe it would help if people could differentiate bible passages that are Old Testament and Christian. Indeed. Or if things like witchcraft trials are to be used as an indictment of Christianity over Islam, perhaps get the death toll for witch burnings across the Islamic World in modern times. In 2009, over 100 were executed for being witches in Saudi Arabia, alone. Perhaps two dozen were executed as witches @ Salem...for example. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Special Delivery Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) So sad - both Christianity and Islam teach tolerance and abhor murder, yet almost 1 billion people have died because of religion. I think it is safer to become an atheist these days. Atheism has saved China a lot of problems and lives - comparatively speaking. And yes, BOTH Christianity and Islam were spread at the point of a sword during various points in history. Furthermore, both the Bible and the Koran were edited for political convenience at least twice. I think everyone posting in this thread should watch the documentary ZEITGEIST http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/zeitgeist-the-movie/ Edited February 7, 2016 by Special Delivery
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Early Christianity....when it spread to all of Europe...didn't involve armies and soldiers. Just missionaries. Mao was one of the greatest murderers in all of history... Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kimmy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Guys, ancient history is completely off topic. The Crusades, the Siege of Vienna, the burning of witches, the spread of religions in medieval times, all of it. This this thread is about present-day Canada. If one wanted to make a case that the Israelite massacre of the Amakelites was Jesus's fault, even though he would not arrive on earth until many centuries later, that should go in the Religion forum. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 One might think Islam's track record through history might be a factor in 'ISLAMOPHOBIA' (sinister music plays). But, if not...what's the point of this thread? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 .... Every government wants to have a passive and obedient populace which makes management and administration and... I believe that democratic governments are elected on hope or fear and generally govern on fear. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
dialamah Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Indeed. Or if things like witchcraft trials are to be used as an indictment of Christianity over Islam, perhaps get the death toll for witch burnings across the Islamic World in modern times. In 2009, over 100 were executed for being witches in Saudi Arabia, alone. Perhaps two dozen were executed as witches @ Salem...for example. We should certainly stop doing business with Saudi Arabia. Perhaps if the world sanctioned them, they'd rethink their ways. Most Islamic countries do not condone witch-killing; I could only find two, SA and Gambia. In quite a few countries, the civilians kill suspected witches despite laws against it. This includes Christian majority countries as well as Muslim-majority countries, and countries which are evenly divided Christians/Muslims/Other. Once again, your attempt to prove that only Islam and Muslims promote and support horrific practices fails.
kimmy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 One might think Islam's track record through history might be a factor in 'ISLAMOPHOBIA' (sinister music plays). But, if not...what's the point of this thread? What's missing is a connection to current affairs. Canada isn't getting refugees and immigrants from the 15th century. This whole "Muslims did this in the Dark Ages, but Christians did that in the Dark Ages" back-and-forth bickering is completely devoid of relevance to today's affairs. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Recommended Posts