Big Guy Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Question - Why did you shoot that Protestant? Answer - Because I'm a Catholic. It's really only up to the person doing the interpreting. If they say they did it because of their religion, then they did. (granted the example above doesn't happen as often as some other religiously motivated crimes, but the principle is the same) I suggest a more valid explanation would be : Question; "Why did that person shoot that Protestant?" Answer: "Because the shooter in Catholic." Question: "What does that tell you?" Answer: "That all Catholics shoot Protestants". And of course "That the Catholic religion teaches to kill Protestants." This is the kind of logic I read on this board. As to the rest on my post, the majority of Catholics (or people who consider themselves to be Catholic) do not follow the major tenets of what they consider to be their faith. I suggest that the same condition is the prevalent in all religions. Edited February 6, 2016 by Big Guy Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 Just saw an interesting argument on another board: Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior. Some Muslims kill and punish Iraqi's, Syrians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) of the Muslim faith. We are outraged and call them terrorists. What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
dialamah Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? I don't see much difference in motivation, but it is true that Israelis are limiting their punishment to their local area. Perhaps if worldwide anti-semitism continues to rise, it'll eventually motivate Jewish extremists to expand their punishments.
Guest Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 I suggest a more valid explanation would be : Question; "Why did that person shoot that Protestant?" Answer: "Because the shooter in Catholic." Question: "What does that tell you?" Answer: "That all Catholics shoot Protestants". And of course "That the Catholic religion teaches to kill Protestants." This is the kind of logic I read on this board. As to the rest on my post, the majority of Catholics (or people who consider themselves to be Catholic) do not follow the major tenets of what they consider to be their faith. I suggest that the same condition is the prevalent in all religions. Therein lies the basic difference, acknowledgement of which seems to be difficult on here. I just blame the one who shot, and don't try to tell him why he shot. As to what a majority thinks, I don't think it matters when we're talking about 1.5 billion people. Even a minority can be significant.
Big Guy Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 Therein lies the basic difference, acknowledgement of which seems to be difficult on here. I just blame the one who shot, and don't try to tell him why he shot. As to what a majority thinks, I don't think it matters when we're talking about 1.5 billion people. Even a minority can be significant. And if you believe that Islam is inherently violent and a danger to non-Muslims then what do you suggest we in Canada do about it? Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 Just saw an interesting argument on another board: Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior. Some Muslims kill and punish Iraqi's, Syrians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) of the Muslim faith. We are outraged and call them terrorists. What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? I don't think that's an interesting argument at all. It's nonsense. Absolute and utter tripe. Sorry, but there it is. I mean, have you seen how many UN resolutions Israel has garnered? Get back to me when the Israelis burn a village in Nigeria.
Guest Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 And if you believe that Islam is inherently violent and a danger to non-Muslims then what do you suggest we in Canada do about it? I don't. I believe in telling the truth about individual and group actions and their relationship to a religion. Do you not?
GostHacked Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 You haven't read the Quran. I have. Which interpretation have you read?
GostHacked Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 What is the Quran's main message? What's the Bible's main message?
Guest Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 What's the Bible's main message? Stay out of hotel room bedside table drawers.
Rue Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Just saw an interesting argument on another board: Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior. Some Muslims kill and punish Iraqi's, Syrians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) of the Muslim faith. We are outraged and call them terrorists. What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? Your analogy I believe shows how you try deflect this thread and use it to piss on Israel. Provide the names of the people you refer to as "we". I contend you fabricated a category called "we" and there is no we other than in your imagination. Provide the names of Jewish Israelis who kill and punish Palestinians and then the names of the Israeli Judges and government civil servants and members and the names of Jewish Israelis who approve this and then come on this board to criticize Muslims for killing. You made this allegation and I quote; " Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior." Please explain, who is the we? Give their names. I would argue your words above necessarily suggest those of us on this forum questioning the allegations we are Islamophobic as condoning killing Muslims by Israels ends here and now. Please stop smeering. Please stop inciting hatred against Israeli Jews. Please stop using Israeli Jews as hate targets on this thread. As well, you called Israel a theocracy. That contention is false.. It argue it shows once again you misstate what Zionism and the concept of a Jewish state is and try pass it off as referring to as one who practices Judaism. You know that is false. The founding Zionists were atheist. The majority of Israelis don't even practice Judaism. They define their Jewishness as a nationality not a religion and so does Zionism. The concept refers to Jews as being a group of nationals, a collective of nationals. Please explain how Bibi Netanyahu is a Rabbia and how the generals of the IDF are Rabbias and the cabinet that rules the country are Rabbias. You make ridiculous claims, back them up. How is Israel a theocracy? Explain the religious clergy who run its government. Please. They don't bloody exist. There is no religious council that runs the country. That is a blatant falsehood. No its not Iran the country you represent on this forum and you are well aware of the difference between the Israeli and Iran governments. Edited February 6, 2016 by Rue
Hal 9000 Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 Just saw an interesting argument on another board: Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior. Some Muslims kill and punish Iraqi's, Syrians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) of the Muslim faith. We are outraged and call them terrorists. What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? Isn't it telling that you (collective "you") have to search for the worst possible acts to compare muslims to? Maybe it would help if you had a thread that delved into all the good things that muslims and Islam have offered the world. You know, talk about all their contributions to the the world of science, technology, environmental causes, human rights and freedoms, the arts, music, literature...that sort of thing. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Rue Posted February 6, 2016 Report Posted February 6, 2016 Question - "What religion are you?". Answer - "I am Roman Catholic". Question - "Do you believe in and/or practiced sex before marriage?" Answer - "Yes". Question - "Do you go to church every Sunday?" Answer - "No." Question - "Do you use contraceptives?" Answer - "Yes." Question - "Do you believe in abortion?" Answer - "Yes." Question - "Do you go to confession and take communion when you go to church?" Answer - "No." But these are the major tenets of the Catholic Church. I suggest that is the conversation one could have with the majority of Catholics. I suggest this is not a conversation one would have with a majority of Catholics but is in fact simply you throwing out subjective bigoted stereotypes about how you think Catholics think. These represent voices in your head, no more, no less.
Argus Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Just saw an interesting argument on another board: Some Israelis kill and punish Palestinians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Israel) of the Jewish faith. We accept that behavior. Except Israel is a democratic state with an independent judiciary and is a democracy to boot, and has no death penalty. I think you are confusing them with Iran, the brutal theocracy which executes and tortures children, and which you have repeatedly called on Canada to befriend. Some Muslims kill and punish Iraqi's, Syrians and any others who they consider to be a threat to their theocracy (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) of the Muslim faith. We are outraged and call them terrorists. Maybe you get back to us when Israel murders prisoners by setting them on fire, or drowning them, the way your friends in IS do. Maybe you give us a call when Israel sets up sex slave auction houses for underage girls the way IS has. What is the difference in those two motivations and our reaction to them? Except for Jew haters, there are any number of extremely obvious differences, some of which I have pointed out. Edited February 7, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Big Guy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Isn't it telling that you (collective "you") have to search for the worst possible acts to compare muslims to? Maybe it would help if you had a thread that delved into all the good things that muslims and Islam have offered the world. You know, talk about all their contributions to the the world of science, technology, environmental causes, human rights and freedoms, the arts, music, literature...that sort of thing. I do not own a position. I have no reason to paint Muslims as something they are not. I see them as normal, healthy and productive as the rest of us. If you feel that that this religious group requires "boosting" as to "their contributions to the the world of science, technology, environmental causes, human rights and freedoms, the arts, music, literature...that sort of thing." Then feel free to do so. I believe most informed people already realize that fact. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I don't think that's an interesting argument at all. It's nonsense. Absolute and utter tripe. Sorry, but there it is. I mean, have you seen how many UN resolutions Israel has garnered? Get back to me when the Israelis burn a village in Nigeria. IF you mean the number of "Security Council resolutions directly critical of Israel for violations of its Charter obligations and international law" that Israel has ignored then Yes - read on: http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/ As to burning, have you heard about Gaza? Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I don't. I believe in telling the truth about individual and group actions and their relationship to a religion. Do you not? I certainly do - as long as the "truth" is objective factual information not some interpretation based on preconceived and prejudicial attitudes. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I certainly do - as long as the "truth" is objective factual information not some interpretation based on preconceived and prejudicial attitudes. Yeah, me too.
Guest Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 IF you mean the number of "Security Council resolutions directly critical of Israel for violations of its Charter obligations and international law" that Israel has ignored then Yes - read on: http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/ As to burning, have you heard about Gaza? Yeah, that's them. I'm not gonna look it up, but I think it's about half of the resolutions the UN has made saying "stop that, it's awful". I just wonder where that says acceptance to you. As for the Gaza reference, I looked for confirmation of a rocket attack by that smoking Nigerian village on Boko Haram, but I couldn't find one. Mossed covering it up, I suppose.
eyeball Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Edit> Just to be clear, my statement is referring to the evil that religions are cabable of bringing out in people. I'm not referring to "evil religions".You're talking about a thing. You might as well be talking about a two by four. You can use it to build a food bank or cave someone's head in with it and like a religion you'd have no more business saying the evil two by four made me do it. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hal 9000 Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 You're talking about a thing. You might as well be talking about a two by four. You can use it to build a food bank or cave someone's head in with it and like a religion you'd have no more business saying the evil two by four made me do it. I agree with the analogy, however Ive heard the same one in reference to guns and knives. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Which interpretation have you read? Pickthall in book form. However, this site... http://quran.com/ ...has them all; so depending on the Surah...all of them. Note how the site both provides audio as well as modern Arabic versions. At the bottom of the page are links to the other sites I find useful. What 'interpretation' of the Quran have you read? What's the Bible's main message? As far as I understand...Do unto others as you would have done unto you. (Mathew 7:12) Go and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37). What message do you feel is the main one of the Bible? How about Buddhism? Edited February 7, 2016 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 I agree with the analogy, however Ive heard the same one in reference to guns and knives. An ideology exists like a collective in my opinion. A sum of human thought and action. Thus it is more than a 2x4. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Pickthall in book form. However, this site... http://quran.com/ ...has them all; so depending on the Surah...all of them. Note how the site both provides audio as well as modern Arabic versions. At the bottom of the page are links to the other sites I find useful. What 'interpretation' of the Quran have you read? As far as I understand...Do unto others as you would have done unto you. (Mathew 7:12) Go and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37). What message do you feel is the main one of the Bible? How about Buddhism? Is the version you ascribe to the Shi'ah or the Sunni one, to start with?
DogOnPorch Posted February 7, 2016 Report Posted February 7, 2016 Is the version you ascribe to the Shi'ah or the Sunni one, to start with? There is no difference between the two sect's Quran. The Schism started after Mohammad's death as to who got to take-over. Ali or Abu Bakr. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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