Paris Terrorist Attacks

[Smallc]

So the nerds of Anonymous have apparently taken down over 5000 Twitter accounts belonging to ISIS members and sympathizers.

If they and governments can find a way to choke off the money supply, they'll do more damage than all the bombs we can drop on them.

[Black Dog]

For a short timer perhaps. Recent history seems to show that it won't last long though, unless we're willing to stay there, ala Japan, Korea and Germany.

The problem of ISIL and the problem of global Islamic terrorism are linked, but not inextricably so. There's no panacea solution, but that doesn't mean one should take anything off the table wrt to the specific issue of ISIL's position in Syria and Iraq.

I'm also, to add to that, not clear how that does anything for France, other than revenge (which can be important and powerful on its own).

I'm a hawk and not a dove as most people know by my posts here. This problem though - a military solution is very short lived.

Again: it all depends on the problem you are trying to solve. If the idea is to destroy ISIL as a force in the region and roll up its territory, then military action is a straightforward way to achieve that. From my understanding of the group, I don't think they are an organization that would adapt well to being reduced to a rump guerrilla movement. Of course, military action would have to be part of a broader global anti-terror strategy (which would also necessitate taking action against the world's biggest supporter and financier of terrorism, Saudi Arabia).

[capricorn]

In case you haven't been paying attention, I think funnelling weapons into the region is a crime against humanity that should be stopped so sending people in to use those weapons isn't exactly something I'm prepared to support.

Yes, I'm well aware of your views on these issues.

[capricorn]

If you're going to commit to fighting ISIS militarily half-ass or "symbolically", I'd say flying Jets would be much safer than boots on ground training. You also avoid any chance of selling/giving arms to the enemy (or potential future enemy).

In addition, you avoid any of our ground troops being beheaded by murderous criminals should they be captured.

[Smallc]

In addition, you avoid any of our ground troops being beheaded by murderous criminals should they be captured.

Did that stop us in Afghanistan? For all the bluster, it was the Conservatives who 'abandoned our allies' in that fight.

[capricorn]

Did that stop us in Afghanistan? For all the bluster, it was the Conservatives who 'abandoned our allies' in that fight.

It was NATO that ended the Afghanistan mission, not the Conservatives. We were there for 12 years, the full duration of the operation.

[Smallc]

It was NATO that ended the Afghanistan mission, not the Conservatives. We were there for 12 years, the full duration of the operation.

We left the Combat operation 3 years prior. I don't fault the Conservatives for that. I'm faulting many Conservatives for the double standard.

[Scotty]

I have no doubt that you maintain that view. I have more confidence in mine and those who understand the situation far better than you or I.

I don't accept journalists as experts on complicated situations, and particularly those from the area involved, who are prone to being biased w/r one side or the other.

[Scotty]

Did that stop us in Afghanistan? For all the bluster, it was the Conservatives who 'abandoned our allies' in that fight.

But not in a vacuum. They did so to placate political opinion in Canada which had been turned against the mission by the liberals and ndp, and their allied media resources.

[Big Guy]

I'm not sure. I just have the balls to question it Why is it wrong? I'm just like the rest of us. I want to defeat ISIS but I don't want to chicken out.

Why do you feel that withdrawing from the air bombing - which everyone involved says is a waste of assets - is to "chicken out". I suggest that to blindly follow others on a path with which you disagree is "chickening out". To stay with the promises which you made when elected, in the light of criticism, shows a lot of "balls".

Three questions:

What is ISIS and who speaks for it?

How was ISIS created and how/why is it successfully expanding.

How do you differentiate between an ISIS fighter and a local villager?

[eyeball]

Speaking of Africa - the French were hinting today in wanting our help in Mali.

Wade into yet another quagmire that's bubbling over and blowing back in some imperialistic allies face? No thanks. Not until they're willing to make reparations to their former colonies and commit to subordinating their armed forces where required to the command of governments in-waiting consisting of ex-pats and refugees from former colonies. These should be vetted by notable luminaries with a history of pursuing peace - people like Aung San Suu Kyi, the Dalai Lama and Malala Yousafzai come to mind and I'm sure they could recommend others amongst their peers.

If we expect to put the brakes on WW3 we'll need to pull out all the stops. The solution to the nightmare the world descending into will require the greatest diplomatic feat of summitry the human race has ever attempted.

The five top members of the UN security council do not have the moral ethical background to lead it. Their moral obligation and challenge is to learn how follow it.

[Smallc]

They did so to placate political opinion in Canada which had been turned against the mission by the liberals and ndp, and their allied media resources.

So they're just a bunch of opportunists then?

[Big Guy]

The Paris bombing are starting to pay more and more dividends:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/11/muslims-face-worsening-environment-hate-uk-151118054323264.html

Muslims face 'worsening environment of hate' in UK. Report reveals that abuse, discrimination and the threat of violent assault have become a 'normal experience'. How many moderates are now going radical?

[poochy]

The Paris bombing are starting to pay more and more dividends:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/11/muslims-face-worsening-environment-hate-uk-151118054323264.html

Muslims face 'worsening environment of hate' in UK. Report reveals that abuse, discrimination and the threat of violent assault have become a 'normal experience'. How many moderates are now going radical?

Which moderates? They ones who are the targets of killers or the ones who share the same religion as the killers?

[Smallc]

They ones who are the targets of killers or the ones who share the same religion as the killers?

So every Christian is to be judged the same way? What?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Smallc

[poochy]

So every Christian is to be judged the same way? What?

Your desperation to straddle every fence has left you with virtually no opinion of merit, fyi you aren't the board conscience. and in this case you're reading something that isn't there. Perhaps you should go back and try much harder to understand what I was responding to, or ask someone else explain it to you.

[Moonlight Graham]

But not in a vacuum. They did so to placate political opinion in Canada which had been turned against the mission by the liberals and ndp, and their allied media resources.

Or that the mission had long become unwinnable bulls*t where we killed and were killed with no long-term prospects of success.

[Scotty]

Why do you feel that withdrawing from the air bombing - which everyone involved says is a waste of assets - is to "chicken out".

When you say 'everyone' you mean people like you who have no military experience whatsoever, and very little idea of what is actually going on over there, right?

How was ISIS created and how/why is it successfully expanding.

Incompetent local government was how it was created. And it has not been expanding for some time now.

[Scotty]

Or that the mission had long become unwinnable bulls*t where we killed and were killed with no long-term prospects of success.

The problem was we took on a job of culture change, and that is not something you finish up in a few years. The US spent decades changing Japan and South Korea.

To say it was unwinnable is nonsense. Of course it was winnable, and easily winnable. What we lacked was the patience, because in this world of sound bytes and short attention spans we want instant fixes.

[Scotty]

So they're just a bunch of opportunists then?

Aren't the actions of virtually all politicians tightly bound up in what they think will be popular and gain them votes?

[Scotty]

The Paris bombing are starting to pay more and more dividends:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/11/muslims-face-worsening-environment-hate-uk-151118054323264.html

Muslims face 'worsening environment of hate' in UK. Report reveals that abuse, discrimination and the threat of violent assault have become a 'normal experience'. How many moderates are now going radical?

I have noticed you have a tendency to believe anything which says bad things about the West without much effort at validating it. It seems this group advocates for Iranian Khomeni style Islam and spends much of its time attacking liberal Muslims.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/the-islamophobe-of-the-year-event-reached-a-new-low-this-year/

The United Kingdom has a very robust set of laws and regulations protecting against racism of any sort. You can be arrested for hurling a racial epithet at someone, for example or posting something on your facebook page that is racist. It has its own human rights commissions, and this private group contributes nothing to their mission.

[TimG]

The problem was we took on a job of culture change, and that is not something you finish up in a few years. The US spent decades changing Japan and South Korea.

I would argue that the US did not change the culture but simply benefited from a culture that was capable of supporting a modern technological state once conflict was ended.

[Smallc]

Aren't the actions of virtually all politicians tightly bound up in what they think will be popular and gain them votes?

And do we not generally criticize them for it?

[Smallc]

Your desperation to straddle every fence has left you with virtually no opinion of merit, fyi you aren't the board conscience. and in this case you're reading something that isn't there. Perhaps you should go back and try much harder to understand what I was responding to, or ask someone else explain it to you.

I am no one's conscience but my own. I am also no fan of Islam...or Christianity in any form. Islam is though, from what I can see, the worst religion. Whether that has to do with cultural practices of its believers, or simply the religion itself, I'm not sure. What I am sure of is that it's wrong to paint an entire group as the same simply because they share said terrible religion with a terrorist.

[WestCoastRunner]

How so?

Vladimir Putin: from pariah to powerbroker in one year:

"Second, Obama and Cameron have been forced to accept that Bashar al-Asssad[/size], Syria’s president, may stay in office, possibly for the duration of the proposed 18-month, UN-supervised Syria peace negotiation, as Putin has insisted all along."[/size]