bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 It's been a long time, but history will not forget the Canadians who voluntarily joined U.S. military forces for the Vietnam War. Canada has been slow to embrace its Vietnam War veterans, but war memorials on both sides of the border now include Canadian names. The Canadian Vietnam Veterans Association estimates that about 20,000 Canadians enlisted, although other historians think that number may have been as high as 40,000. The association believes 12,000 Canadians actually served in combat roles in Vietnam. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lost-to-history-the-canadians-who-fought-in-vietnam-1.3304440 Interesting CBC reader comment notes that some Canadians would rather honor U.S. draft dodgers who fled to Canada instead of their own citizens going in the opposite direction. Wonder if they feel the same way about Americans who illegally fought as Canadians during WW2 ? Tomorrow is Veteran's Day (U.S.) and Remembrance Day (Canada)...for all veterans...thank you for your service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 It was a divisive war in Canada as well, even though we were not a combatant. Canadian Vietnam veterans fit in the same category as Canadian vets of the Spanish Civil War, even though there was an all Canadian battalion in that war. No official recognition. Wiki The Mackenzie–Papineau Battalion or Mac-Paps were a battalion of Canadians who fought as part of the XV International Brigade on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War. Except for France, no other country gave a greater proportion of its population as volunteers in Spain than Canada.[1 There was a kid in my high school, a nice enough guy but not much a student and had a bit of trouble fitting in. One day we heard he had quit school and months later he showed up again in his Marine Corps dress uniform. This was 1964 so the chances of him going to Vietnam were pretty high and I still wonder what happened to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Interesting CBC reader comment notes that some Canadians would rather honor U.S. draft dodgers who fled to Canada instead of their own citizens going in the opposite direction.Just SOME Canadians? I'd be surprised if it wasn't MOST Canadians.Wonder if they feel the same way about Americans who illegally fought as Canadians during WW2 ?It was actually illegal for Americans to volunteer to fight against tyranny. Why am I not surprised? Edited November 10, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Just SOME Canadians? I'd be surprised if it wasn't MOST Canadians. That's just wishful thinking by one Canadian. It was actually illegal for Americans to volunteer to fight against tyranny. Why am I not surprised? Illegal for the same reason it was illegal for Canadians to fight against "tyranny" in another nation's military force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'd like to see a cite for that. What happened to Americans who'd been thrown in jail for doing this once the US joined the fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'd like to see a cite for that. What happened to Americans who'd been thrown in jail for doing this once the US joined the fight? Those of a certain age don't need no steenkin' cite. President Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers, but they are still waiting for their own national holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 BC, I believe that Windsor On has a memorial for those who fought in Nam, Canadians didn't forget. Those brave souls that went into that hell hole should be remember as much of the US Prez and VP, who did everything they could to stay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Draft dodgers clearly get more respect out on the westcoast. Draft dodgers helped make the left coast what it is and it wouldn't have been the same without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Attending Remembrance Day ceremonies on November 11th is a well known way to honour the men and women who served Canada in times of war, military conflict and peace. There are many other ways, throughout the year, to remember the sacrifices and achievements of the one and a half million brave Canadians who served, and continue to serve, our country at home and abroad, and the more than 118,000 men and women who died so that we may live in peace and freedom today. Taking an active role to remember these people is one way to say "thank you." It in no way celebrates war, death, victory or defeat. As to Vietnam, I wonder how many of the families and friends of those 60,000 Americans who wasted their lives in Vietnam now wish these dead would have been draft dodgers and lived to see that they were right. Remember that the Americans used a lottery system (the draft) to decide which of their young would go to be used and/or sacrificed on the "fields of honor" no matter if they agreed or disagreed with the politicians who made the mistake of getting involved in Vietnam. But I hope we will remember the sacrifice of these folks who followed orders rather than go to jail or flee the country. Fortunately, we learned in 1944 that conscription was not a good idea and it took America another thirty years to learn that lesson. Yes, wear the poppy, remember those who sacrificed and make sure that we never again send our young and brave into battle unless it is the last resort. We sort of forgot in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and now Syria. In Flanders fields the poppies blowBetween the crosses, row on row,That mark our place; and in the skyThe larks, still bravely singing, flyScarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days agoWe lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,Loved and were loved, and now we lieIn Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe:To you from failing hands we throwThe torch; be yours to hold it high.If ye break faith with us who dieWe shall not sleep, though poppies growIn Flanders fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Not much difference to me....getting drafted to fight in Canada's imperialist empire wars or fighting for American imperialist empire wars. Veterans/Remembrance Day holidays honour veterans service and sacrifice to protect the rights of folks to safely politicize and argue about it while watching hockey on television back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Canada wasn't at war with Vietnam. If people chose to go, that's their business. I don't really care if they get "official recognition" for their service to the USA. It's no different (other than the numbers) of this guy who decided to join the fight with the Kurds. A Canadian volunteering with Kurdish forces in northern Syria was reportedly killed in a suicide bombing on Wednesday, and an Ontario mother said she was trying to verify it was her son, a Canadian Forces veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Lets not forget that it was a US Marine Vietnam Vet, that stood guard at our national war memorial after Cpl Cyrillo was gunned down, and our country went into lock down....and the memorial stood unguarded.... While not all Canadians feel the need to honor US vets, I sir have had the honor to share the battle field with US soldiers, and have no problems calling them brothers in arms....and would gladly do it all over again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Interesting CBC reader comment notes that some Canadians would rather honor U.S. draft dodgers who fled to Canada instead of their own citizens going in the opposite direction. Wonder if they feel the same way about Americans who illegally fought as Canadians during WW2 ? That would be a perfectly valid comparison if only Canadian actions in WWII consisted of propping up a tinpot dictator against a popular uprising, dropping toxic carcinogens all over someone else's jungle and dropping napalm on kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 That would be a perfectly valid comparison if only Canadian actions in WWII consisted of propping up a tinpot dictator against a popular uprising, dropping toxic carcinogens all over someone else's jungle and dropping napalm on kids. It's still a valid comparison for Canada propping up the imperial empire...Lancaster bombers were not dropping candy hockey pucks on kids and their families in Germany. Canada even made a nice profit from making napalm and defoliants for use in 'Nam. http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=55/Bombing-of-Hamburg-Dresden-and-Other-Cities-World-War-II-Database Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's still a valid comparison for Canada propping up the imperial empire...Lancaster bombers were not dropping candy hockey pucks on kids and their families in Germany. Canada even made a nice profit from making napalm and defoliants for use in 'Nam. Really? You're really going to compare fighting the Nazis in WWII to your imperial campaign against the people of Vietnam? You're really desperate for anything that will make you feel better about American aggression against third world countries. Maybe it's the fact that the US is regularly found to be the greatest threat to world peace in worldwide polling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Lets not forget that it was a US Marine Vietnam Vet, that stood guard at our national war memorial after Cpl Cyrillo was gunned down, and our country went into lock down.... The entire country went into lockdown??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Really? You're really going to compare fighting the Nazis in WWII to your imperial campaign against the people of Vietnam? I already did...and it was more than just "Nazis". Had to kill lots of different enemies to keep the imperialist British Empire rolling around the globe. France's Indo-China was just a smaller version of what you hold sacred to this day. Would it be better if they had a king/queen ? You're really desperate for anything that will make you feel better about American aggression against third world countries. Maybe it's the fact that the US is regularly found to be the greatest threat to world peace in worldwide polling. Well, I'm a veteran and can easily recognize those who try to make themselves feel better about their nation's historical "aggression". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I already did...and it was more than just "Nazis". Had to kill lots of different enemies to keep the imperialist British Empire rolling around the globe. France's Indo-China was just a smaller version of what you hold sacred to this day. Would it be better if they had a king/queen ? Yeah - fighting Nazis was "exactly" the same as invading someone else's homeland in the 3rd world. That's really reaching. :lol: Well, I'm a veteran and can easily recognize those who try to make themselves feel better about their nation's historical "aggression". Ohhh. Were you in 'Nam, BC? That would have definitely had to suck. Well, thanks for helping me feel better about our historical aggression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Yeah - fighting Nazis was "exactly" the same as invading someone else's homeland in the 3rd world. That's really reaching. Do you think Germany ignores its veterans ? "Remembrance Day" (Volkstrauertag) in Germany will be this Sunday, 11/15. That includes dead "Nazis". They're even remembered in Canada: https://powsincanada.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/volkstrauertag/ Edited November 12, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So much for remembering vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The entire country went into lockdown??? I don't recall being in lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you think Germany ignores its veterans ? "Remembrance Day" (Volkstrauertag) in Germany will be this Sunday, 11/15. That includes dead "Nazis". They're even remembered in Canada: I'm convinced you have a point in there somewhere - but don't worry, nobody will ever guess what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So much for remembering vets. I know it's politically incorrect of me but I see a distinction between people who fought the Nazis in WWII or served as peacekeepers to try to prevent war and people who volunteered and were sent to a pointless war in some godforsaken hellhole. The former are heroes and the latter are victims to right wing politics. I have a number of relatives who fought in WWII, including one who was in the 1st special forces and one who was shot down and served time in POW. These guys were farmers who walked off the farm for a cause. I would never encourage my children to join the military. And I'm cautious about engaging in remembrance ceremonies. In my experience, they tend to cross the line into war glorification exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm convinced you have a point in there somewhere - but don't worry, nobody will ever guess what it is. The point is obvious, except for those who want to work their own agenda using the sweat and blood of those who served and are remembered. The grave markers don't say which ones fit your sanctimonious judgement on history and war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.