Moonlight Graham Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 To start with Israel receives no foreign aid from the U.S. Israel is the US's #1 recipient of foreign aid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_States_relations#United_States_aid Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Argus Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Are you arguing for the status quo then? Are you arguing for Israel's continued expansion into Palestinian territory? Absorbing the Palestinians into Israel? What are your suggestions? . I am opposed to the settlements and always have been. Check my posts from ten years ago. The only logical resolution I can see for this issue is, as I have previously stated, for the gaza strip to be absorbed by Egypt and for the West Bank to be absorbed by Jordan. There are no religious, cultural, linguistic, or ethnic differences between the Palestinians and the Jordanians. Hell Jordan used to be part of Palestine but was carved off by the British, and it has previously absorbed parts of the West Bank. I concede that a significant amount of bribery would have to be involved to get Jordan and Egypt to go along, but given what that mess is costing us now I don't see that as unreasonable. Edited November 13, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 That's because you are ignorant about the situation and apparently have no clue what kind of a condition they live in. No, it's because you're ignorant about the situation in the middle east and have no clue what kind of conditions Arabs in general live in. You have no basis for comparison and, let's face facts, no interest in making one. That, plus the fact that you have a bigoted view of the Arabs, which prevents you from considering that they could prosper... Name me one Arab country which prospers without the aid of oil found, developed and maintained by westerners. And by the way, not hating Jews does not mean I am bigoted against Arabs. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) There are these two particular bits of unpleasantness that, no doubt, daily remind the King of Jordan why he keeps the Palestinians apart from the Hashemite kingdom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan Edited November 13, 2015 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 There are these two particular bits of unpleasantness that, no doubt, daily remind the King of Jordan why he keeps the Palestinians apart from the Hashemite kingdom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan I would say it should instead remind them of the inadvisability of allowing large, armed groups to form within their borders. They could absorb the Palestinians, the other Palestinians, that is, but that doesn't mean they let Hamas and Fatah operate as armed factions. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted November 13, 2015 Report Posted November 13, 2015 I would say it should instead remind them of the inadvisability of allowing large, armed groups to form within their borders. They could absorb the Palestinians, the other Palestinians, that is, but that doesn't mean they let Hamas and Fatah operate as armed factions. But that's exactly what the PLO did in 1970...Jordan's wishes or not. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Rue Posted November 15, 2015 Report Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Jacee your rationaliztion of being hypocritical about who you apply boycotts to by using the name of Jews speaks for itself. Even if you think Jews are involved in these boycotts it does not make your blatant hypocracy in who you choose to get righteous about less hypocritical. BDS was started by a Fatah terrorist who has repeatedly stated in speeches his agenda is to use the boycott as but one tool in a war to dismantle Israel as a Jewish state and that he agrees with any and all tactics including terrorism and violence to dismantle Israel. This is not and has never been about settlements. Its about aging war to dismantle Israel. This is precisely why the boycott clearly does not differentiate between products grown on the West Bank and products grown behind the green line. It punishes all Israelis. It also punishes the very people in the Israeli peace movement who were trying to convince Netanyahu to consider alternative approaches. The BDS movement is about coercion. Boycotts of Jews in the Middle East started in 1922. In fact the Durban conference called for the current BDS movement using the false analogy Israel was racist and all of Israel need be dismantled. The current BDS movement sends students onto campuses bullying other students and shutting down debates and demanding anyone Jewish be fired. That is a fact and its something trendy leftists won't admit. BDS shuts down free speech but demands people listen to their pinion. BDS is using the tactics of the SA, Nazi Storm Troopers and this is where the boycott idea actually came from, the SA. Where the hell do you think the tactic of burning books, screaming people down, harassing them simply because of their views comes from hmmm? BDS is about one thing an done thing only-telling the world Muslims can have states, anyone else in the world can identify themselves a as a collective entitled to a state but not Jews. You can hide behind the pretense that this is only about settlements but its not and never was. This is about a war to put Jews down and tell them the are inferior to Muslims, that we are dhimmi not entitled to statehood and guess what-the days of telling us our place are over. This does not help Palestinians one iota. It exploits them. As well, good luck on your BDS. The world is waking up to global Islamic terrorism. The days of suggesting the world's ills are only caused by Jews not knowing their place is coming to a rude end. Its not Jaffa oranges you have to worry about-its the very people you appeal to, and call to engage in putting Jews in their place who you have to worry about. Edited November 15, 2015 by Rue Quote
Big Guy Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Posted November 20, 2015 About 30 years ago, there was this American citizen who worked for the government in the sensitive area of intelligence analysis. He used his position to spy and turned over sensitive security documents to another former power. He was caught, convicted and sentenced to life. He was just released. Was it Russia or Syria or Iran or another enemy of the USA that he was feeding this data? No, It was the American and Canadian good buddy - Israel! At first the Israelis lied and denied any association with Pollard but finally admitted that indeed, he was spying for Israel against America. And as his punishment, Israel made Pollard (now still in American jail) a citizen in 1990. How is that as an "up-your-nose" to the USA? Israel has been fighting for Pollards release and extradition for years. Now 30 years later, Netanyahu has welcomed the release of this Israeli hero: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/israeli-spy-pollard-released-prison-151120094129649.html Pollard has shown no remorse. "I don't think there's any doubt that the crime merited a life sentence, given the amount of damage that Mr. Pollard did to the United States government," AP quoted Joseph diGenova, who prosecuted the case as a US government lawyer in Washington, DC, as saying. "I would have been perfectly pleased if he had spent the rest of his life in jail." So this is how Israel sees its "friends" and "allies". I wonder how many spies they have in Ottawa? The USA may be dumb enough to continue to be used by this self serving regime in Jerusalem. Canada should be more intelligent. Time for Canada to sever all ties with Israel. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Bonam Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 So this is how Israel sees its "friends" and "allies". I wonder how many spies they have in Ottawa? Huh? You do know that every nation spies on every other right, including its allies? That's just how things are done. Quote
Big Guy Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Posted November 21, 2015 Huh? You do know that every nation spies on every other right, including its allies? That's just how things are done. So you are suggesting that Canada has spies in the USA and Israel gathering their secret military intelligence reports and sending them back to Canada? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
cannuck Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 So you are suggesting that Canada has spies in the USA and Israel gathering their secret military intelligence reports and sending them back to Canada? Here I thought Celine Dion was doing entertainment for money in Las Vegas! Quote
Rue Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Moonlight Graham the quote you provided interestingly went on in the next sentence to state that all foreign aid to Israel ended in 2007? Why did you delete that sentence? You are absolutely wrong Graham. Foreign aid ended in 2007 and you chopping off that sentence speaks loudly. Quote
Rue Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 The quote Moonlight Graham used to claim Israel receives foreign aid from Israel in fact states: Since the 1970s, Israel has been one of the top recipients of US foreign aid. In the past, a portion was dedicated to economic assistance, but all economic aid to Israel ended in 2007 due to Israel's growing economy. Moonlight deleted the words in bold. Mr. Graham you are wrong about stating Israel receives foreign aid from the US and your deleting the actual words you quote speaks for itself. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 What about the billions in military aide? Quote
Rue Posted November 22, 2015 Report Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) What about it. Its been discussed countless times on this forum and how it benefits the US economy. Tell me why are you even discussing it. You don't discuss military aid to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq. You didn't discuss how Obama funded and trained ISIL with Erdogan. You don't discuss Russia funding Syria or China Sudan? This pathetic attempt to raise the Zionist hold on the US canard is past spent. Knock yourself out. By the way if you or anyone else wants to deliberately or accidentally cut off sentences when you quote things, careful, I might tell Benjamin Netanyahu on you, Edited November 22, 2015 by Rue Quote
marcus Posted November 23, 2015 Report Posted November 23, 2015 What about it. Its been discussed countless times on this forum and how it benefits the US economy. Tell me why are you even discussing it. Because it contributes to the continuous occupation and the abuse of the rights of Palestinians. Once the American people realize that around $4 billion a year of their tax money is given to Israel, instead of it going to support infrastructure, seniors and healthcare, then the shift will be complete. At the moment, academia in the U.S. is in a transition. It doesn't matter how much the lobby groups and wealthy donors push, the more they squeeze and try to shut down debate and criticism of Israel, the stronger the voices get. Another group has joined the BDS movement: Anthropology professors vote overwhelmingly to back boycott of Israeli universities. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
GostHacked Posted November 23, 2015 Report Posted November 23, 2015 What about it. Its been discussed countless times on this forum and how it benefits the US economy. Tell me why are you even discussing it. You don't discuss military aid to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq. You didn't discuss how Obama funded and trained ISIL with Erdogan. You don't discuss Russia funding Syria or China Sudan? This pathetic attempt to raise the Zionist hold on the US canard is past spent. Knock yourself out. By the way if you or anyone else wants to deliberately or accidentally cut off sentences when you quote things, careful, I might tell Benjamin Netanyahu on you, Which is also an economic benefit. Israel does not have to spend as much on weapons. Quote
Rue Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Ghost Hacked, Israel spends in fact more money on purchasing US weapons than it would making its own You would know that if you actually did some research on defence expenditures and understood how they work. In fact there is a growing movement in Israel that argues it would be far cheaper and better for Israel to withdraw from the US military industrial network which forces it to purchase American weapons at far higher a cost than it could get them by building it themselves. That won't happen or now the same reason when Justin tries to pull Canada out of the F35 boon doggle that won't happen. Its called business. Its got nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with procuring and securing buyers through complex networks of legal liability dependency through signed contracts. Israel in fact had a similar happening as what happened in Canada when Canada tried to create its own fighter jet. When Canada tried to create the Arrow it was shut down. Likewise when Israel created the far superior Tsfir jet at the time, it was shot down. There is reason Canada does not make its own cars. Stop and think. This has nothing to do with sinister Zionist dependence on the American people through shape shifting lizards. Would just one Zionist diatriber do some research as to how the current military alliance came about and why the US uses Israel to refine its weapons? Lol. Right. The US does not simply give Israel weapons. What a stupid contention. There is a price tag, there are conditions attached-to start with it requires Israel to take incomplete weapons and complete them before they are operational and then send them back to the US after refinement where they are then sold to make profit for the US businesses. The military aid to Israel that is truly beneficial you will never know but stop and think. If you think Canada stopped manufacturing the Arrow or Israel stopped manufacturing the Tsfir jet for no reason go find out why. Also go find out what the difference is when for example Germany sent 6 state of the art naval vessels to Israel compared to when the US provides military aid. Compare the exchanges and the terms and conditions. Lol like that will happen Better still do any of the Zionist diatribers know about the exchanges in military technology between Israel and China. Of course not. You have any idea how the Americans did not want Israel and China forming a military alliance and exchange and why? Hmmmm? The US is a great ally of Israel and vice versa but its business not pleasure. The US is a business. It owes Israel nothing. The alliance is based on more than business but an shared exchange of concern over terrorism and not withstanding Obama's 8 years of using POTUS to delegitimize Israel he failed and he has been unable to disassemble the US-Israel alliance because at its grass roots, military officials at lower levels in the US and Israel will not abandon each other's trust in spite of Obama and his civilian contractors who were hired to blow up the alliance. Epic failure. The attempt to remove the word Muslim from any reference to terrorism in any or all government documents-failed. The US has sent the equivalent in military aid to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE and Jordan. In fact it sends as much to Egypt and Saudi Arabia than it does Israel in the ME. Oh but you knew that. Military aid comes with conditions attached and some of you arm chair experts make zerio effort to find out what those conditions are not withstanding, they have been discussed over and over again to the same anti Israel geniuses that come right back on the forum and repeat the same mantra. . Ask Marcus where the weapons for Hamas Hezbollah, al Quaeda, ISIL, Iran, Yemen, the Taliban come from? Oh but wait he can only discuss Israel...forgot.. Ask Bug Guy who provides Iran and Hezbollah with their weapons....ooopsy we don't discuss that...... Go on look whose economies are dependent on the exporting of military products as their no.1 source of financial activity before you engage in the usual pap smeer about Yankee weapons aid to the Zionist remora. US, China, Russia, France Britain, Brazil, Israel, Canada, Belgium, Sweden, Germany, gee what a surprise. Who the hell do you think creates and sells weapons and who is employed by that? Any of you arm chair experts want to guess? Someone want to tell Justin the no.1 source of income in Canada is the sales of military weapons. What? No that is impossible. We are a nation that now hugs people and poses for photos. Can't be. Hey now, I know lets pretend its only Zionists who buy weapons and benefits from them. Edited November 24, 2015 by Rue Quote
GostHacked Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 I expected a long rant I won't read. Thanks Rue. Quote
jacee Posted November 24, 2015 Report Posted November 24, 2015 You don't discuss military aid to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq. You didn't discuss how Obama funded and trained ISIL with Erdogan. You don't discuss Russia funding Syria or China Sudan? Gee rue, that would be off topic: "American Israeli relations" is the thread title. . Quote
Big Guy Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Looks like Obama trusts Netanyahu like the rest of the world trusts him. While Obama was trying to get a deal with Iran, Netanyahu was sharing classified information with American congressmen in an attempt to sabotage the talks: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/spying-netanyahu-communications-report-151230074451057.html Meanwhile Obama was listening in on these "private" conversations where Netanyahu was trying to undermine Obama. Looks good on Israel for meddling in American politics and outed in their unsuccessful attempt to shape foreign policy. The USA now knows to count its fingers after shaking hands with Israel. What kind of meddling is Netanyahu doing in Canadian politics? Edited December 30, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2015 Report Posted December 30, 2015 Do all terrorist supporters hate Netanyahu? He must be doing something right. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Posted December 30, 2015 Do all terrorist supporters hate Netanyahu? He must be doing something right. I do know that most of the countries in the world do not trust him or current Israeli policies. I do not think that terrorists "hate" him. He is the best recruiter to their causes. He turns moderates into terrorists with every move he makes against Palestinians, every settlement he creates on Palestinian land and every periodic invasion of Gaza. He is the best thing that has happened to world wide terrorism. You may think that is doing "something right" - I do not. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
DogOnPorch Posted December 30, 2015 Report Posted December 30, 2015 It is your opinion that you think everybody doesn't trust Netanyahu and dislikes Israel. Some people are all too aware of the origins of the Palestinian Cause and who they decided to support during WW2. Not to mention their nasty habit of hijacking and blowing-up airliners, cruise ships and Olympic games...etc, etc. It is my opinion that only a certain sort of person supports the Palestinian Cause after finding out these facts. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted December 30, 2015 Report Posted December 30, 2015 The trouble is that your opinion also encompasses people who just flat out don't care one way or the other. You're the one who's chosen to make enemies out of everyone who isn't with you. Your side is just one more to try and steer clear of is all. You see a lot of that in the Quag. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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