drummindiver Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Just because I'm not Liberal, hoping Justin fails means Canada fails, and clearly that is not in anybody's best interests. Having said that, I don't agree with his first moves. So far, Justin Trudeau's first steps for government after winning the election have been the following: 1. A massive taxpayer funded renovation of the house he will be moving into, that will cost more than it would to knock it down and build a new one from scratch.2. Taking away the freedom of people to keep the government out of their daily lives to gather information on trivial things like "What kind of toilet do you have in your household?" by reinstating the mandatory long-form census,3. And now we are already talking about a bailout for Bombardier, since it can't make money off things like leer jets in an era where CEOs of companies are actually willing to tighten their belts by downgrading to 1st class.Wasting taxpayer money, declaring war on simple freedoms, and already preparing for a bailout for the incompetent. What a great start to a liberal government. Do you agree or disagree with his first day? What do you think he will do next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I disagree with the narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I disagree with the narrative. On what points ? Please expand on your disagreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) On what points ? Please expand on your disagreement.It's hard to do on my phone, but -Trudeau didn't ask for the renovation to the house. It was needed years ago and it has far less to do with cosmetics and far more to do with functionality and stability. The long form census existed throughout history. The reality is we need o collect good statistics. I personally think comprehensive databases are the way to go but people would find that even more intrusive. The Harper government was more than happy to bail out the auto industry. This is no different and is a strategic decision just the same. Edited November 4, 2015 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 First of all, the PM house NEEDS to be done, most Canadians would agree, I think, second, the long -form census needs to be done because the government needs to know how Canadians are doing and were the weak points are in the country and bailing out a company , depends on the company and since this company is Canadian, the government doesn't have to worry about it leaving the country as much as if it was a foreign owned and Harper did have a surplus from GM. We don't need anymore people losing their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Trudeau has really said nothing about bailing Bombardier, they've just been asked to do it by the company. If the long-form census info for researchers doesn't identity me by name or exact address, I'm fine with it. The Sussex reno wasn't Trudeau's idea and has been needed for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 2. Taking away the freedom of people to keep the government out of their daily lives to gather information on trivial things like "What kind of toilet do you have in your household?" by reinstating the mandatory long-form census, Do you want a good government with sufficient demographic information to make long term decisions, or do you want an ignorant government making decisions more on luck with insufficient information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 3. And now we are already talking about a bailout for Bombardier, since it can't make money off things like leer jets in an era where CEOs of companies are actually willing to tighten their belts by downgrading to 1st class. Actually, Bombardier is tanking because of its entry into the airline market with the C-Series....."investing" 100s of millions into the company so it can compete with Boeing and Airbus is a futile exercise...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think a shout out to one of the cabinet members is well deserved: Maryam Monsef - Democratic Institutions - Maryam came to Canada as a refugee from Afghanistan. Who would have thought those illiterate women from this god forsaken country could rise to the level of a Cabinet Minister. Good for her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Actually, Bombardier is tanking because of its entry into the airline market with the C-Series....."investing" 100s of millions into the company so it can compete with Boeing and Airbus is a futile exercise...... Unfortunately there may be great pressure on the new government to do that to appease the Quebec caucus and to shore up the Quebec Liberals. I do agree it's pointless, but we would hardly be the first country to shore up the domestic aviation industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think a shout out to one of the cabinet members is well deserved: Maryam Monsef - Democratic Institutions - Maryam came to Canada as a refugee from Afghanistan. Who would have thought those illiterate women from this god forsaken country could rise to the level of a Cabinet Minister. Good for her! I'm trying to sort out whether this is an insult or a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Actually, Bombardier is tanking because of its entry into the airline market with the C-Series....."investing" 100s of millions into the company so it can compete with Boeing and Airbus is a futile exercise...... Correct. to make it worse, they chose to neglect their business base in commuter aircraft and while they were doing that Embraer has comprehensively eaten their lunch. This will not end well. But let us not forget that Bombardier is based in Quebec. That matters a lot. The budget will balance itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 2. Taking away the freedom of people to keep the government out of their daily lives to gather information on trivial things like "What kind of toilet do you have in your household?" by reinstating the mandatory long-form census, "This data is used to plan public programs and projects such as equalization payments, Employment Insurance benefits, the Old Age Security program, and the Canada Pension Plan. The data also has an impact on public transit and transportation infrastructure, health-care infrastructure, social services, and education." You should do your research on what this data is used for before you dismiss it as trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm trying to sort out whether this is an insult or a compliment. I think a certain member will know what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 1. A massive taxpayer funded renovation of the house he will be moving into, that will cost more than it would to knock it down and build a new one from scratch. The place needs the renovation and since it's owned by Canada, Canada will pay for it. Deferred maintenance is the fault of every PM that has lived there since it was built. Just because you could build a new one for the same money doesn't mean you should. Hell, we likely spend more keeping Sea Kings in the air (or mostly in the air...). 2. Taking away the freedom of people to keep the government out of their daily lives to gather information on trivial things like "What kind of toilet do you have in your household?" by reinstating the mandatory long-form census, Those of us who find the LFC to be intrusive will just ignore it as we always have. Or lie on it. Or get mad about it. There won't be any substantial change to the process just because Juthtin says so. 3. And now we are already talking about a bailout for Bombardier, since it can't make money off things like leer jets in an era where CEOs of companies are actually willing to tighten their belts by downgrading to 1st class. Using taxpayer money to bail out Bombardier has become as "Canadian" as maple syrup and screwing the West. The company only ever posts a profit when they're being given more handouts. I'm pretty sure you could round up all the welfare given to this company over the years and supply every worker they ever had with a retirement fund large enough that they would never have to work again. More ass kissing for Kwebek corporations. Don't expect it to stop with another pseudo french guy at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 "This data is used to plan public programs and projects such as equalization payments, Employment Insurance benefits, the Old Age Security program, and the Canada Pension Plan. The data also has an impact on public transit and transportation infrastructure, health-care infrastructure, social services, and education."[/size] You should do your research on what this data is used for before you dismiss it as trivial.[/size] I think it typifies the previous government's view of research. If it wasn't of immediate political gain, or of short-term industry gain (although this data is enormously valuable for commercial purposes as well as governmental), it could be dispensed with. Frankly, the killing of the mandatory long form census was one of the most baffling moves by the Harper government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Unfortunately there may be great pressure on the new government to do that to appease the Quebec caucus and to shore up the Quebec Liberals. I do agree it's pointless, but we would hardly be the first country to shore up the domestic aviation industry. It might be cheaper to shore up the economy in Quebec the traditonal Liberal way: by gettign Chuck Guite to deliver a few hundred million to the ad agencies in Montreal. This Bombardier injection is pretty much endless and will be many billions deep and of course pointless. It will be pointless because the aircraft they are building aren't required in the marketplace. Oh and the marketplace already has two global builders with far deeper pockets than Quebec City, Ottawa or Edmonton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Unfortunately there may be great pressure on the new government to do that to appease the Quebec caucus and to shore up the Quebec Liberals. I do agree it's pointless, but we would hardly be the first country to shore up the domestic aviation industry. Funding a competitor trying to eat the lunch of Boeing and Airbus (which owns shares in Dassault, and also make biz-jets, in addition to its role in the Eurofighter consortium) should make for an interesting reboot to the Hornet replacement program........in one fell swoop, the Government is competing against the makers of the Super Hornet, Rafale and Eurofighter........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Actually, Bombardier is tanking because of its entry into the airline market with the C-Series....."investing" 100s of millions into the company so it can compete with Boeing and Airbus is a futile exercise...... Without governnment 'investment', Airbus and Boeing would never have been where they are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Unfortunately there may be great pressure on the new government to do that to appease the Quebec caucus and to shore up the Quebec Liberals. I do agree it's pointless, but we would hardly be the first country to shore up the domestic aviation industry. We did it for the auto industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 But let us not forget that Bombardier is based in Quebec. That matters a lot. The budget will balance itself. Just as Harper was happy to give money to companies based in Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Funding a competitor trying to eat the lunch of Boeing and Airbus (which owns shares in Dassault, and also make biz-jets, in addition to its role in the Eurofighter consortium) should make for an interesting reboot to the Hornet replacement program........in one fell swoop, the Government is competing against the makers of the Super Hornet, Rafale and Eurofighter........ And the F-35. So? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 We did it for the auto industry. True, but the circumstances were somewhat different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Without governnment 'investment', Airbus and Boeing would never have been where they are today. Airbus and Boeing are profitable, Bombardier isn't........The Russians and Chinese have tried to compete in the international market, with far larger investments, and failed.....sinking money into Bombardier is a bad investment and is why their share prices are tanking further, putting them into the realm of penny stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Airbus and Boeing are profitable, Bombardier isn't Just as GM and Chrysler weren't. Bombardier has existed for a long time. It's existence is just as strategic as the Canadian shipbuilding industry that you say is so important. No government is going to let a large corporation that employs so many people and is so important for Canadian innovation fail. With this quarter's results, Bombardier has written off their losses for the C-series. If they can get it in the air now it's pretty much pure profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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