Trudeau's First Moves

[Derek 2.0]

And the F-35. So?

Lockheed doesn't make airliners, and left the market decades ago because it couldn't compete against Boeing, McDonnell Douglas(now Boeing) and Airbus.

[Smallc]

Lockheed doesn't make airliners, and left the market decades ago because it couldn't compete against Boeing, McDonnell Douglas(now Boeing) and Airbus.

They're still competitors in some areas. The point is that this is in Canada's strategic interest. Bombardier has a long history in Canada. It has made regional airlines for decades. The C series is the next logical step. The problem is, fuel prices and their own lack of knowledge in this area has done them few favours.

[Big Guy]

The PM of Canada is standing in front of his new Cabinet and having a press conference.

Hello - The Prime Minister is taking questions from the press in public !!!!!!!!!

[Derek 2.0]

Just as GM and Chrysler weren't. Bombardier has existed for a long time. It's existence is just as strategic as the Canadian shipbuilding industry that you say is so important. No government is going to let a large corporation that employs so many people and is so important for Canadian innovation fail. With this quarter's results, Bombardier has written off their losses for the C-series. If they can get it in the air now it's pretty much pure profit.

Bombardier isn't a "strategic company", as business jets have yet to decide a war........the 30+ Canadian Aerospace companies contributing to the F-35 are.....

If you feel Bombardier is a good investment, dig through your sofa for change and you could probably buy controlling shares.

[ToadBrother]

The PM of Canada is standing in front of his new Cabinet and having a press conference.

Hello - The Prime Minister is taking questions from the press in public !!!!!!!!!

Won't it be something to have a PM that isn't afraid of a scrum?

[Derek 2.0]

They're still competitors in some areas. The point is that this is in Canada's strategic interest. Bombardier has a long history in Canada. It has made regional airlines for decades. The C series is the next logical step. The problem is, fuel prices and their own lack of knowledge in this area has done them few favours.

In what areas? Lockheed, Raytheon and Bombardier have/had working business interests, but Lockheed and Bombardier don't directly compete, your suggestion that they do is as founded as stating John Deere and Kennworth are competitors because they build things with wheels........

[Smallc]

In what areas? Lockheed, Raytheon and Bombardier have/had working business interests, but Lockheed and Bombardier don't directly compete, your suggestion that they do is as founded as stating John Deere and Kennworth are competitors because they build things with wheels........

They're both systems integrators for defence projects:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.44593-bombardier-among-canadas-big-defence-and-security-players-at-cansec-2013.bombardiercom.html

[Smallc]

Bombardier isn't a "strategic company", as business jets have yet to decide a war........the 30+ Canadian Aerospace companies contributing to the F-35 are.....

Having an aerospace industry is strategic.

[Derek 2.0]

They're both systems integrators for defence projects:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.44593-bombardier-among-canadas-big-defence-and-security-players-at-cansec-2013.bombardiercom.html

I just said as much above........but thanks for supporting my point by confirming the past Lockheed/Raytheon/Bombardier partnership

[Derek 2.0]

Having an aerospace industry is strategic.

We have a Canadian aerospace industry, Bombardier is but a failed part.......Bell Textron Canada, AVCORP, P&W etc don't need handouts after poor investment and business practices.

[Smallc]

We have a Canadian aerospace industry, Bombardier is but a failed part.......Bell Textron Canada, AVCORP, P&W etc don't need handouts after poor investment and business practices.

I agree with you. The reality (I think) is that no one will let them fail, as they employ too many people in provinces (Quebec and Ontario) where all of the parties have a pretty good seat count.

[Derek 2.0]

I agree with you. The reality (I think) is that no one will let them fail, as they employ too many people in provinces (Quebec and Ontario) where all of the parties have a pretty good seat count.

Trudeau will devastate the 30 plus profitable companies involved in the F-35, creating 30 more Bombardiers of varying sizes.......all the while, investing billions into failed Bombardier........A savvy investor would see the folly in investing in losers as opposed to the winners.

[Smallc]

Trudeau will devastate the 30 plus profitable companies involved in the F-35,

And if we select the Super Hornet he could create a small windfall for Bombardier (which is involved with Boeing for F-18 maintenance here) and for Boeing in Winnipeg. If we select The Rafale, the thing will be built here, and we'll own the code. We can do our own construction, maintenance, and upgrading through the entire life cycle. It's not a lose lose situation.

[Derek 2.0]

And if we select the Super Hornet he could create a small windfall for Bombardier (which is involved with Boeing for F-18 maintenance here) and for Boeing in Winnipeg. If we select The Rafale, the thing will be built here, and we'll own the code. We can do our own construction, maintenance, and upgrading through the entire life cycle. It's not a lose lose situation.

Now you're making things up......Canadair, now owned by Bombardier, use to have the CF-18 maintenance contract via L-3, which Bombardier divested itself from over a decade ago (in 2003). L-3 MAS, now a standalone company, provides services to the RCAF, including the Hornet upgrade, and is involved in the F-35 program. Boeing contracted out the Hornet upgrades to L-3 MAS, which completed the work in Mirabel Que and Cold Lake.

Boeing Canada, in Winnipeg, provides support to the civilian airline industry, both through fleet support and limited production (of parts) for its commercial airliners. Boeing won't close its current St Louis plant to reopen it in Canada. (Don't BS a former Boeing employee)

Dassault aviation has next to no footprint in Canada, outside contracted support for business jets. 65 Canadian built Rafales will cost a fortune, as we have no current industry base for Canadian production..........but you're right, we will own it, and will get to pay more in development and support than an F-35 over the life of the aircraft. But we will lose-lose, as we'll get to pay more for a limited Canadian produced aircraft, then support it through its life (after the French have retired it) and get to pay to integrate it into NORAD and use our current stores of munitions.......then we get to "invest" in those 30 additional companies that will be on the outside of the F-35 production for the next several decades and go the way of Bombardier ........brilliant idea

[Smallc]

The French don't even have all of their Rafales yet - they won't be retiring them any time soon.

As for the F-18 contract - I had misread about the change. The rest of the information comes from everything I've read. There's no reason boring could not set up a facility for maintenance in Winnipeg, and no reason Dassault could not find a partner to build the Rafalr here, as MD did with the F-18 decades ago.

[The_Squid]

F-35..... really?

[Smallc]

F-35..... really?

Sorry. I'll discontinue this line.

[cybercoma]

I'm trying to sort out whether this is an insult or a compliment.

She's impersonating our esteemed anti-immigration poster.

[WestCoastRunner]

Now that US Intel suggests that a bomb was present on the Russian flight, does anyone think Trudeau will give Obama another phone call and say 'Never mind, I changed my mind' about bombing ISIS"?

[Smallc]

Now that US Intel suggests that a bomb was present on the Russian flight, does anyone think Trudeau will give Obama another phone call and say 'Never mind, I changed my mind' about bombing ISIS"?

No, he'll say, how many trainers do you want us to send?

[WestCoastRunner]

No, he'll say, how many trainers do you want us to send?

Don't we have an obligation to do more than that when fighting terrorists?

[ReeferMadness]

I think a certain member will know what I'm talking about.

Ahhh. Dog whistle forum post.

[overthere]

They're still competitors in some areas. The point is that this is in Canada's strategic interest. Bombardier has a long history in Canada. It has made regional airlines for decades. The C series is the next logical step. The problem is, fuel prices and their own lack of knowledge in this area has done them few favours.

The C series is a massive mistake, which is why Bombardier is in deep deep shit and begging for more billions from Canadian taxpayers. Again.

Bombarider was doing OK with business jets and commuter craft until they gambled it all on the C series.

The business jet biz is slumping as it always does in slow economic times. They lost focus on the area where they excelled, commuter aircraft, and Embraer has now eaten their lunch and taken much of their market.

Now it appears that Trudeau will pick a combat fighter based on how it can help the shareholders of Bombardier at the expense of the ROC.

How do we get ot these f***king idiotic places where politics supplants sense?

Edited November 4, 2015 by overthere

[overthere]

No, he'll say, how many trainers do you want us to send?

Don't forget that trainers can carry up to 20 blankets each. I'm talking about those really nice warm Hudsons Bay blankets.

[The_Squid]

It's a good move to pull out our fighter jets...