PIK Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/24/another-liberal-health-care-scandal First, despite CCACs claims 92% of their $2.4 billion annual budget goes to direct patient care, Lysyk found almost 40%, or close to $1 billion, is spent on administration and co-ordination. While the CCACs are supposed to offer a home visit to patients with complex medical conditions within 24 hours of hospital discharges, this only happens about half the time, partly because many discharges occur on Fridays and some CCAC nurses don’t work weekends. Lysyk found the cost of providing services to patients varied widely across the province as did the criteria used to determine eligibility for transition care in complex cases. Between 2009 and 2013, the average annual salary of the 14 CCAC CEOs went up by 27% to almost $250,000 during a period of so-called wage restraint in the public sector. Here we go again, public servants getting most of the money and we the people get screwed again. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Michael Hardner Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 I hope people start paying attention to these things. Yes, the Liberals seem to be in charge when the worst of the worst happens but we need to watch expenses all of the time. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 Unfortunately when the Conservatives are in charge they fail to put in place the measures that allow watching the government to occur. They're more focused on watching us. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Posted October 1, 2015 Meanwhile, back at the ranch, wait times just got longer in Ontario. So much debt.... The Ontario government has cut funding for physician services by a total of 6.9 per cent since February, "which includes across-the-board cuts and a number of targeted cuts that affect specific specialties," said OMA president Dr. Michael Toth. "These short-sighted cuts to physician services will result in longer wait-times and reduce the access to care for Ontario's patients," he said. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/ndp-warn-cuts-to-ontario-doctors-fees-will-mean-longer-waits-1.3252589 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 Meanwhile, back at the ranch, wait times just got longer in Ontario. So much debt.... since the moderator chose to remove my initial post... let me ask in a 'different way'. Canadian wait times are one of your long-standing favourite go-tos. Of course each and every time in the past when you've been challenged to actually produce complete/representative U.S. wait times, particularly for the disenfranchised U.S. citizenry, you've always ignored those requests... notwithstanding the always present triage management within Canadian wait times; something you have steadfastly refused to acknowledge in the past. in any case, what does your bringing up wait times have to do with this thread's OP focused on an organization tasked with moving patients from institutional to home/community care? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) He can't provide you with those numbers, waldo. American wait times are hidden because people in the US avoid going to the hospital/doctor due to the out of pocket expense. Even with the Affordable Care Act, a recent survey found that 1 in 5 Insured Americans avoid getting medical help because they're unsure of what costs they will incur. Those are the people who have coverage. That doesn't take into account people who don't have coverage. American wait times aren't due to an overloaded system. They're due to people fearing bankruptcy. Edited October 3, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
Queenmandy85 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 If the salaries of the administrators is an issue, an easy solution is to cut the salaries to $30,000 per year. I'm sure there are lots of unemployed people who would fill the void. Of course they won't have the education and experience, but who cares. Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 If the salaries of the administrators is an issue, an easy solution is to cut the salaries to $30,000 per year. I'm sure there are lots of unemployed people who would fill the void. Of course they won't have the education and experience, but who cares. It's a ridiculous response to the problem. In business, you first gather the information then analyze it then act. $250K seems like a high amount, I agree. I also think (from my observations) that there are lots of bubbles of poor management in organizations and healthcare seems to be one of these. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
dre Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 It's a ridiculous response to the problem. In business, you first gather the information then analyze it then act. $250K seems like a high amount, I agree. I also think (from my observations) that there are lots of bubbles of poor management in organizations and healthcare seems to be one of these. Managment is a self perpetuating entity that tends grow itself over time both in terms of size and cost. Especially in North America. Trying firing the top tier and giving tasks directly associated with production to the tier below. Then wait a little bit and see if the quality and number of widgets going out the door is affected. In most cases it wont be. Then repeat the process and fire the next tier. Keep doing that until production IS effected then hire the last tier you fired back and youre done! You now have a lean, production oriented management structure I have literally seen this work. The last company I worked for eliminated more than half of their management positions without any impact on production at all. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 I have literally seen this work. The last company I worked for eliminated more than half of their management positions without any impact on production at all. This is fascinating to me, and I want to pursue it but... thread drift. Would you start another thread in an appropriate forum with an example ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 It's a ridiculous response to the problem. In business, you first gather the information then analyze it then act. $250K seems like a high amount, I agree. I also think (from my observations) that there are lots of bubbles of poor management in organizations and healthcare seems to be one of these. It's not that high for 14 CEOs managing a total of $2.4 billion in contracts. I assume that the 14 CEOs are driven by the added layer of 14 separate LHINs. Health care system management and administrative positions attract (or repel) qualified talent based on the usual factors, with salary being an important consideration. CCACs are required to provide a lot of administrative support and oversight, including individual care plans for each client/patient: CCACs are non-profit organizations with independent community boards. CCACs are funded by the Local Health Integration Networks (LHINs). As health service providers, CCACs must comply with government legislation and regulations. The Home Care and Community Care Services Act, 1994 sets out the rights of clients; defines the services provided by CCACs; requires development, review, and coordination of a Plan of Care for each client; and addresses consents, privacy of personal health information, fees, quality management, complaints and appeals. Regulation 386/99 sets out the eligibility criteria for CCAC homemaking, personal support services, and professional services, and defines the maximum levels of nursing and personal support/homemaking services that can be provided to an individual. http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/contact/ccac/ccac_facts.aspx As Ontario struggles with so much debt and health care demographics, many aspects of its health care system will be challenged just to maintain current levels of long wait times and other services gaps. As discussed many times before, "free" access to all this red tape and wait listed services is not access to actual care, but it is still very expensive to manage. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 He can't provide you with those numbers, waldo. American wait times are hidden because people in the US avoid going to the hospital/doctor due to the out of pocket expense. Even with the Affordable Care Act, a recent survey found that 1 in 5 Insured Americans avoid getting medical help because they're unsure of what costs they will incur. Those are the people who have coverage. That doesn't take into account people who don't have coverage. American wait times aren't due to an overloaded system. They're due to people fearing bankruptcy. of course... you and I both know he won't... he can't... supply all encompassing and complete wait times for the U.S.. And, of course, as in the past in other threads that spoke to the failure of the U.S. health care system, even when presented with significant examples of long-wait times within "component layers" of the overall U.S. health care system, he refuses to accept them... to even acknowledge them. Which certainly doesn't preclude the guy continuing to drop references to Canadian wait times at any opportunity presented. Quote
socialist Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 of course... you and I both know he won't... he can't... supply all encompassing and complete wait times for the U.S.. And, of course, as in the past in other threads that spoke to the failure of the U.S. health care system, even when presented with significant examples of long-wait times within "component layers" of the overall U.S. health care system, he refuses to accept them... to even acknowledge them. Which certainly doesn't preclude the guy continuing to drop references to Canadian wait times at any opportunity presented. I've spent a lot of time in the USA. IMHO, they have excellent health care....quite a bit better than here. Have you ever been to the USA, MLW member waldo? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Topaz Posted October 3, 2015 Report Posted October 3, 2015 I've heard a number of times Americans talk about their health care and they have as many problems as WE do, so no matter what anyone says on here, they have their problems too. Quote
socialist Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I've heard a number of times Americans talk about their health care and they have as many problems as WE do, so no matter what anyone says on here, they have their problems too. There is no perfect system. But to think Canada's is the best is wrong. Many who slam the American system have no clue what it is like. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
cybercoma Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 The average doctor in Canada makes $380,000/year. Tell me again how much the people who run hospitals should make? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 4, 2015 Report Posted October 4, 2015 I'm a little confused. I assumed a CCAC was a mid-level administrator. My bad. They are administrators Community Care Access Centres (CCACs) with an average of 50,000 public users. BC's assessment of the contract size for running an operation like this seems pretty huge to me though. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted October 12, 2015 Report Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Most of the money always goes to the administrators and employees. Remember Paul Martin's huge gobs of cash going to the health are accord over ten years? All pretty much for nothing. It wound up enriching doctors, nurses, administrators and other health care workers, but not helping Canadians. As long as there is no private sector the beneficiaries extra money spent on health care will be those given charge of that money. Ontario was given billions extra and the Liberal government squandered it on buying off the unions, ignoring the needs of the public. access to care has not substantially improved and patients are not reporting that their care is better integrated or more patient-centred. And we show largely disappointing performance compared to other high-income countries, some of which have made impressive progress. http://www.scribd.com/doc/202844661/Where-You-Live-Matters-Canadian-views-on-health-care-quality-Results-from-the-2013-Commonwealth-Fund-International-Health-Policy-Survey-of-the-Gener Edited October 12, 2015 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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