Machjo Posted September 17, 2015 Report Posted September 17, 2015 Should working or studying in Canada without a visa be a criminal offence? Right now, working or studying in Canada without a visa is not considered to be a criminal offence. It merely involves deporting a person and preventing him from returning to Canada for a year. Not making it a criminal offence has two drawbacks: 1. The punishment is not severe enough to serve as an effective deterrant and worse yet 2. Since the fundamental human rights of foreign nationals who are detained for deportation to protection from arbitrary arrest and detention, to the presumption of innocence, and to a fair trial are not protected, many innocents likely get deported too. To make it a criminal offence with one year of imprisonment followed by deportation would: 1. Serve as an effective deterrant to working or studying in Canada without authorization, and more importantly 2. Protect the fundamental human rights of the accused since Charter rights would then apply to them, and in so doing protect Canada's reputation as a country that respects due process. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Moonlight Graham Posted September 17, 2015 Report Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Why would we want to spend all that money for trial, appeals, imprisonment when we can just deport the scumbags? They don't belong here, stop trying to fudge the system. Why do you need a trial etc? You either have a visa or you don't. CBSA officers and immigration officers etc. are given certain legal decision-making authority by the government. Sounds like someone you care about got caught breaking our laws and you want them to stay. I don't doubt officers may make mistakes etc. and I'd support stricter training and oversight, but not huge spending to protect millions of foreigner's rights. Do you know how many people attempt to enter this country every year? Edited September 17, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
PIK Posted September 17, 2015 Report Posted September 17, 2015 Don't worry the SCC will intervene and make it OK. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Shady Posted September 17, 2015 Report Posted September 17, 2015 If somebody's here on a visa that's expired, they need to go back to where they came from, or apply for another form of citizenship/legal status. Quote
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Posted September 18, 2015 Supposing that we replaced one year of incarceration with deportation and a re-entry ban for life with few exceptions (only possible through due process). It's not as simple as visa or no visa. Was the person working at all? In one case an Australian was deported for working illegally in Canada without a visa for helping his Canadian girlfriend build her patio for free! Also, does neglecting due process really save money? In our case, taxpayer money was wasted in arresting and detaining her for deportation when she would have eventually bought her own flight ticket anyway. Had the police sent a plainclothed undercover police officer with a hidden video or audio camera, we would not have even known. He would have noticed the suspicions were unfounded case closed. That not having been done, collecting witness statements, DNA, and alibi names and contact information would likewise have been less expensive. They had not expected someone would have found her a lawyer from the outside. It had to spend taxpayer money on a bail hearing only to prove some comments in the CBSA statement to have been false. The admissibility hearing is costing taxpayers even more money and now her lawyer is saying that not only should she win the case but, depending on how the next hearing date turns out, it might even be possible to sue the CBSA! (though we have yet to consider the costs in time and money vs. how much we could get, plus my fiancée's emotional state at the time). As it's turning out, not only does the CBSA have no proof of her guilt, but she has proven able to prove her innocence to a high degree thus showing the charges to be highly suspect. Yet even a win is shallow given the cost in time and money. Both we and the taxpayer lose and the CBSA shall have accomplished nothing of its original aim; only waste everyone's money for nothing. Taxpayers' money aside, losing a case harms the CBSA's public image of competence, especially if she does end up suing (which is still a possibility). So tell me, how does this save money compared to had the police at least offered to collect evidence, especially seeing that it was so easy to obtain? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Posted September 18, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136134/Brit-helped-girlfriend-DIY-given-eight-days-leave-Canada-immigration-officials-ruled-doing-local-job.html Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Posted September 18, 2015 The link above is a direct consequence of foreign nationals not being protected by th Charter. And that us just what is reported. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Michael Hardner Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Can you explain ? The article seems to be about labour code violations not human rights. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Posted September 18, 2015 The human right to protection from arbitrary detention, to the presumption of innocence, and to a fair trial. Right now the CBSA is in the habit of skipping a crucial part: obtaining proof that the accused actually committed a violation in the first place. Without that, anything that follows is an abuse of a person's fundamental human rights. How do you explain that a CBSA officer can decide that helping one's girlfriend put a DIY patio together constitutes 'working in Canada without a visa?' For all we know, the officer just disdn't like Britons so came up with such a bogus charge. Without protecting fundamental human rights, we must expect such abuses of power. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Michael Hardner Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 The human right to protection from arbitrary detention, to the presumption of innocence, and to a fair trial. ... Without protecting fundamental human rights, we must expect such abuses of power. I don't believe people should be detained in this way for any more time than required to send them back home. But a right to a trial ? Does any country do that ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Should working or studying in Canada without a visa be a criminal offence? Our attitude towards people working and studying in Canada should be as laissez-faire as it is towards Canadian money we've allowed to be invested in countries these people come from. In fact It should be even easier for human beings to move around than money. The freer the people the freer the trade. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Argus Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 I don't believe people should be detained in this way for any more time than required to send them back home. But a right to a trial ? Does any country do that ? Actually, since the Bertha Wilson decision, we have to provide them with a lawyer, and however many years of appeals they want to go through while fighting deportation, not to mention paying for their upkeep during this entire time period. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Our attitude towards people working and studying in Canada should be as laissez-faire as it is towards Canadian money we've allowed to be invested in countries these people come from. In fact It should be even easier for human beings to move around than money. The freer the people the freer the trade. I actually agree with you, I think worker mobility is one of the few things the EU has gotten right. I'd have no issues with an International Wokers Visa, valid in all countries that are signatories of said convention, a convention that also outlines the minimum standards and expectations of workers rights in each country. Quote
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Posted September 18, 2015 I don't believe people should be detained in this way for any more time than required to send them back home. But a right to a trial ? Does any country do that ? Wouldn't the guilty decline trial anyway? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.