WIP Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Not all refugees are from Syria - Top 5 Palestine 5,272,000, Syria 3,342,550, Iraq 1,428,308, Somalia 1,077,048, Sudan 500,014 I've been saying for awhile now...especially a year or two ago before the stream of refugees started reaching Europe, that this was a crisis of the Global South, and not something that could be easily defined with one simple cause/and one simple solution. All of these countries (including Palestine) have been subject to increasingly severe droughts in the past 10 to 20 years. In Sudan, the ethnic cleansings and wars perpetrated by the northern tribes that controlled the Sudan, responded to the drought by just taking more land from those to the west and in the south...it had nothing to do with religion....and that's why after a coalition of evangelical whackjobs and US NGO's (fronted by George Clooney) successfully lobbied to make South Sudan an independent nation, it's still the same warring cluster**** that it was before the war started...btw, where the hell is George Clooney, and why hasn't anyone in Hollywood with a microphone asked him about the value of his work and lobbying efforts? Palestine has the added problem along with declining water availability of not having control of underground aquifer sources of water. Israel controls the water, and uses most of the waters they share in common and even the bulk of the aquifers located in the West Bank for their goddammed new settler colonies! According to the UN agency tasked with monitoring this issue, Gaza's drinking water supplies will be unusable likely even before 2020.....what then? If refugees in Gaza are able to escape from the world's largest open air prison colony, who's shores will they end up on? Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Because Jordan has been a proxy US colony since...forever! But, the aid provided to house what are largely US-created refugees is not completely picked up by the US...especially now that millions are on the move. UN agencies like UNHCR scrupulously avoid judgment and just go about the task of providing aid....and shaking down monthly donors for more and more money! Really ? Guess which nation provides the most funding to UNHCR..... Total contributions to UNHCR in 2012 (USD) Donor Contribution JPOs Total United States of America 791,120,742 2,350,000 793,470,742 Japan 184,840,510 539,476 185,379,986 European Union 166,944,814 0 166,944,814 Sweden 117,915,465 385,782 118,301,246 Netherlands 102,169,590 1,263,261 103,432,851 United Kingdom 99,585,966 0 99,585,966 Norway 83,994,687 868,256 84,862,943 Germany 68,200,819 1,061,627 69,262,446 Canada 64,989,067 0 64,989,067 Denmark 57,646,744 492,809 58,139,553 Australia 48,379,940 264,533 48,644,473 Switzerland 37,340,180 207,279 37,547,459 Finland 23,805,751 522,412 24,328,164 France 22,491,363 768,576 23,259,939 Belgium 16,850,476 0 16,850,476 Spain [2] 13,979,819 937,090 14,916,910 Saudi Arabia 13,698,670 0 13,698,670 Italy 12,827,585 0 12,827,585 Ireland 12,090,556 0 12,090,556 Luxembourg 10,415,584 99,424 10,515,008 ...... http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c26c.html Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Now the Conservatives are saying that they take 20,000 refugees!!. They do everything to move up in the polls. Edited September 13, 2015 by Charles Anthony *Conservatives Quote
WIP Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Christianity supports cultural values that are barbaric too. And I know the laundry list of bad verses too. But, even though I'm not a Christian, I know that the theme throughout the New Testament (and even the OT prophets) was about concern for the poor and deprived. But, the fact that we have Christianities focused on accumulating wealth and congratulating the rich (something you sure as hell can't justify from the Bible) tells me that Christianity, like all organized religions, is a collection of beliefs and practices that end up being used for any good or evil purpose regardless of its origins and traditions. A case in point today, would be look at that goddammed Hungarian Catholic Church from top to bottom, and compare the attitude of its archbishop and most Hungarian Catholics interviewed with what their supposed leader is telling them should be the Christian response to a refugee crisis! It's not like all Christians are following the Hungarian example of threatening to kill any new refugees entering their country...many are doing what they can to take in refugees.....I even learned of a small village in southern Italy that in the last few years, has taken in many new immigrants and refugees, and sees them as a solution to their aging and emigration problem....not a burden that they would rather not have to deal with. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Really ? Guess which nation provides the most funding to UNHCR..... http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c26c.html And, like I said, it doesn't matter a crap, because the US controls Jordan and has a vested interest in keeping the royal family in power there. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
kimmy Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 The long walks across countries. The risky boat rides across the waters. It's more risky for children to go through these than to stay in their refugee camps in Turkey and other areas. Eventually, once the men have found a country who will take them, then the process of bringing the rest of the family begins. This process is common. So in short the ones arriving in Europe in waves are not the ones who need help the most? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 And, like I said, it doesn't matter a crap, because the US controls Jordan and has a vested interest in keeping the royal family in power there. Good...then we won't read any more posts about the miserly contributions from Canada either. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
drummindiver Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Because Jordan has been a proxy US colony since...forever! But, the aid provided to house what are largely US-created refugees is not completely picked up by the US...especially now that millions are on the move. UN agencies like UNHCR scrupulously avoid judgment and just go about the task of providing aid....and shaking down monthly donors for more and more money! Yes, Jordan is clearly the 51st state. Man, the rhetoric if a country has even a modicum of good relations with those "damn muricans". Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 So in short the ones arriving in Europe in waves are not the ones who need help the most? -k Not if they can set-up in Europe. The issue that needs to be answered is; are the camps in Turkey/Jordan inhumane that they need to be relieved? Quote
Canada_First Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) These people are poor. Syrians Hate Jews and Israel. View women as second class. View homosexualty as a crime. How is this culture going to mesh with our own? Will they just form ethnic ghettos in Canada and refuse to assimilate? Do we need more of that? Edited September 13, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
Canada_First Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 12000 refugees will cost $1.5 Billion. Thats insane. Just to help some people too cowardly to fight for the own country. If anyone invaded Canada. I wouldn't run. I'd pick up a weapon and defend my country. Quote
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Now the Conservatives are saying that they take 20,000 refugees!!. They do everything to move up in the polls. Realistically, given the media fuss of late, and even if there were no election in the offing, it's likely they would increase their targets somewhat. Any government would. What I do like is they're not crying and sobbing on air like Trudeau, and demanding we open the doors wide. And make no mistake, under either Mulcair or Trudeau the number of refugees would quickly rise into six figures. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 These people are poor. Syrians Hate Jews and Israel. View women as second class. View homosexualty as a crime. How is this culture going to mesh with our own Support for sharia law, and all that entails, is very high in the region. 74% in Egypt, 91% in Iraq, 89% in the Palestinian territories, 71% in Jordan. Pew didn't survey Syria in its last report because of the war but there's no reason to think it's any lower than the rest. On the question of whether women must wear veils, 87% in the middle east and north Africa said a wife must obey her husband. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 You're proposing that the refugee process and migration are more dangerous than staying in Syria? I find that pretty difficult to believe. -k Travelling through war torn desert nations in the middle of the summer? Not an easy journey. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Support for sharia law, and all that entails, is very high in the region. 74% in Egypt, 91% in Iraq, 89% in the Palestinian territories, 71% in Jordan. Pew didn't survey Syria in its last report because of the war but there's no reason to think it's any lower than the rest. On the question of whether women must wear veils, 87% in the middle east and north Africa said a wife must obey her husband. Based on your own statistics (and i am no expert to say true or false) there is about 15% to 30% (and I am sure much more in other countries like Iran, Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia) who can come here and become a model citizen so why you exclude everyone from middle east for immigration and paint them all as backward and anti women? Edited September 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Argus Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 Based on your own statistics (and i am no expert to say true or false) there is about 15% to 30% (and I am sure much more in other countries like Iran, Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia) who can come here and become a model citizen so why you exclude everyone from middle east for immigration and paint them all as backward and anti women? Because we can't easily separate them out from the mass of people who are perfectly in tune to their country's social values, especially when based on religious teachings. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) You're proposing that the refugee process and migration are more dangerous than staying in Syria? I find that pretty difficult to believe. -k No, I'm suggesting refugees know the process is hopelessly inadequate for the circumstances and that many are trying to get out ASAP before it completely breaks down. Europe will reach it's inevitable political limits of how many can be taken or allowed in. Refugees know, probably better than us, they're in a desperate and deadly race against time as well as everything else they're fleeing. Some people have made a bit of deal about refugees with smartphones and not looking overly bedraggled or destitute but why should it be so surprising, shocking or even evil that enterprising people of means and ability are at the forefront of the tsunami of humanity that is and continues to be displaced? Edited September 13, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Canada_First Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 No, I'm suggesting refugees know the process is hopelessly inadequate for the circumstances and that many are trying to get out ASAP before it completely breaks down. Europe will reach it's inevitable political limits of how many can be taken or allowed in. Refugees know, probably better than us they're in a desperate and deadly race against time as well as everything else they're fleeing. Some people have made a bit of deal about refugees with smartphones and not looking overly bedraggled or destitute but why should it be so surprising, shocking or even evil that enterprising people of means and ability are at the forefront of the tsunami of humanity that is and continues to be displaced? Why are they such cowards? They should pick up a weapon and fight for the country they love. If another country attacked Canada I would grab my guns and defend Canada. I wouldn't run away. I'd give my life for this country. Why aren't these Syrians doing the same? Quote
eyeball Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 I don't know. Btw didn't you flee Africa? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
PrimeNumber Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Why are they such cowards? They should pick up a weapon and fight for the country they love. If another country attacked Canada I would grab my guns and defend Canada. I wouldn't run away. I'd give my life for this country. Why aren't these Syrians doing the same? Maybe they don't love the country. Not everyone is a Nationalist. Edited September 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Canada_First Posted September 13, 2015 Report Posted September 13, 2015 I don't know. Btw didn't you flee Africa? Ok. No I did not flee per se. South Africa wasn't at war. It was being taken over by a far left black government. I was a child in Rhodesia but my father fought for the country against Mugabe. Quote
eyeball Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) No I did not flee per se. Per se? Not on a desperately overcrowded boat but safely on a airplane...perchance? I suspect every single refugee arriving in a boat would probably give their right arm to get their kids safely out another way if they could. Edited September 14, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Canada_First Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Per se? Not on a desperately overcrowded boat but safely on a airplane...perchance? I suspect every single refugee arriving in one today would probably give their right arm to get their kids safely out another way if they could. I left SA in 1992. On an airplane. First Class cabin. Arrived well rested and clean. I didn't cone here and go on welfare. I bought a house. Started doing business and was just as sucessful here as I was in SA.These people are coming here begging for handouts. Going on welfare. Using our resources. I suspect that most of the immigrants we take in today from the third world will be as sucessful as they were in the third world country they came from. We should only be taking in the educated or people with wealth. We don't need anymore garbage people. We have enough already. The mere sight of them makes me ill. Such low class. Why does the left want to import large amounts of third world people so badly? I don't understand it. They're dragging Canada down. Edited September 14, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
eyeball Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Whatever you say chief. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Canada_First Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 Whatever you say chief.Why us it so important to flood Canada with Muslims and/or third world people? Quote
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