CITIZEN_2015 Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) so Rhodesia (1965 - 1979) was a majority rule? Blacks treated equally before the law and became ministers and prime ministers (like Ian Smith) and shared the wealth of the country on a fair basis. I wonder which planet you have been living all these years!!!!!!!!. A parallel but an opposite universe? Rhodesia wasn't an Apartheid state. Blacks could work. Oh I see so blacks could work!!!! (likely to produce that wealth for the minority rich whites like you). I bet they could also breath. So much rights white Rhodesia gave to its majority black population. Incredible!!!!! Edited September 11, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Canada_First Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Blacks in Rhodesia had a heck of a lot more freedom then the blacks in S Africa did during that time. In Rhodesia it was a points based system. The more points one gained the more freedoms afforded. This was to prove loyalty to the State. It wasn't perfect but it also wasn't apartheid as you claim. Quote
Canada_First Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Oh, Mr. Canada_First. Your posts are like an old friend that no one missed. It's just Canada_First. No Mr. Required. I'm happy you find my posts informative and forthcoming. Thank you. Quote
Rue Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Peter F I want to answer your question about whether it was great to come to Canada as a refugee. My mother and grandparents on both sides fled to Canada. My mother was initially rejected even though she was a doctor needed in her specialty in Montreal back in 1949-50. So for me to bad mouth anyone seeking a new life escaping hardship is on one level something I should not do. It makes me a two face if I do. I am grateful to be here. What I think the other gentleman's point was, and is the point of a lot of us who are immigrant or refugee children, and let's face it much of the nation if not all of it is other than our native peoples, is that we on the one hand understand people who come here and want to be here on the other hand we do not understand people who come here and DEMAND and EXPECT and will not compromise, assimilate and work within the system but to demand to be allowed to pick and choose only those parts of the system they like. My mother assisted refugees from the Ukraine ironically who may very well had been part of a family of Jew haters in the Ukraine.She also helped Indo-Pakistani refugees fleeing Uganda, and helped in Haiti. She never explained why, I knew why. So for me when I see suffering people yes I want them helped but I do understand people saying, let's do it sensibly and not be foolish doing it so we bring in terrorists or people within the refugees who will exploit them which has happened already with other groups. I have security concerns like many Canadians. We are not anti refugee but yes we are concerned about security and respect our country's right to secure itself as they did when we came here. Also we did not expect Canada to do a thing for us when we came. We had no government programs or assistance. People in our own communities and we on our own as individuals helped ourselves. Is it good the government today does things for refugees that we never enjoyed, sure. But what we are saying and that gentleman is saying if I understand him is that if our government holds its hands out to us, we can't just expect that and feel entitled to it. That's what he means. He is expressing a value I was taught and so many of us from so many groups were. Also this is not easy for me to explain to you but yes I have conflicted feelings believing Canada should help people who have no respect for Canadian values. If they do great. If they do not, yes I have problems with that as most of we refugee/immigrants do. We do not understand people coming here and being given the gift of Canada opting out of certain values. Yes its causing a clash and its part culture, part religion. Me personally I do not think all Muslims should be written of as terrorist extremist. I think its unfair and if we screen properly and plan properly we can help and take in. I just don't trust the knee jerk liberals screaming to let Syrians in and I will tell you why....because as a minority I know such people...they follow trends...when it makes them feel good they say, bring em in....then weeks later they will be the first telling these same people-you better bloody well be tolerant of sex education and homosexuality-suddenly their smiling and tolerance changes... Peter F I do not get knee jerk liberals-they say what makes them feel good. Sorry I trust people more who talk ugly and say-you want to come here, be prepared to fit in, bite your lip, work hard and not demand things. That ugly talk is real. That I get. I don't get, this righteous crap of welcoming people with supposed passion while underneath the smile are people who the moment the Muslims they take in opt out or show religious exclusivity panic and then expect the so called right wing to do the dirty work. This country to me was taught to me to be a fusion of two sets of values-one being native, the other being a dynamic tension between British an dFrench legal values. To me the British-French dynamic was inherently Christian and democratic. The native one was more cooperative and decentralized and not as rigid in definition or tied to materialism as the British-French one was for defining who and what we are. I was not brought up to demand Christians or natives conform to me. Out of respect I learned their cultures and religions. No Christian asked me to stop being Jewish. No Christian said, do not be a Jew. What they did ask is I treat them the way I wanted to be treated and that is what I asked. Most people do that and based on that simple principle we do fine. What the person is talking about you responded to are people that come to Canada genuinely do not feel they will have to change, compromise, and give up anything. At this time it happens to be Muslims but it could be Jews, Christians, virtually anyone this man and I have a bone to pick with if they come here and do not respect the laws and show some basic desire to assimilate and conform. Is that unfair to expect? Well I did it and so did so many other immigrants and refugees is what we are saying and it made us better people. But no I do not hate Muslims per se or anyone. I hope that explains it. As for Rhodesia, I think what history shows now, too many years after the fact was that the media portrayed Ian Smith as a white racist protecting white farmers. The press defined him no differently then they once did Confederate State leaders, basically a white slave owner. Ian Smith was not a bigot. He loved Africa, African heritage and respected his black workers, paid them well and treated them as equals. People did not see him as African even though he was African-he was always a white man in Africa, not an African in Africa. Not all black people of Zimbabwe hated him. He was certainly not the racist extremist the British press turned him into so the person on this thread comes from a people who hate being called racist simply because they were white because that to them is racist. I know people like that man who was once called Rhodesian. They defined you by how hard you worked not your skin colour-I know because some came to Israel to work on a kibbutz with me. They were Christian, they respected Jews and Arabs and they bloody worked hard. Racist no. A product of British colonial days yes, but no these were not elite white evil people. I can not go through life writing off Muslims as evil any more then I can Canadians who say to me, I am worried the values of Canada are being eroded and destroyed. Everyone to me has the right to dignity and to be heard and respected. I don't get knee jerk liberals who arbitrarily decide the values of some are more poignant than others. Sorry I don't. I do not expect anything from you. Its great of you understand me, but you do not have to. For Canada I just hope we find the way to balance helping the new with preserving and protecting what makes this country so great and I am sorry, I do not want this country embracing certain Muslim values any more then I want it embracing certain Christian or Jewish values. Why? Because we Jews and Christians have evolved past the literal word of God to a more abstract, creative and flexible way of co-existing-we don't find science negates God but proves the God abstraction, i.e., that behind one level of awareness or meaning always appears another and it never ends as we explore it. Our dialogue has been enriched by our association with native beliefs, Taoists, Buddists, Hindus, Christians and Jews of every sect, on and on, but no its not helped by rigid, fundamentalist extremists bringing values here that ridicule what we have achieved. I won't sugar coat what it is like liberals. One last thing. No I do not get saying, bring Syrians in, but remain silent about Assad and ISIL. I call bullsheeyit on that. People flee because we remain silent when tyranny raises its ugly head. Harper is right that we fight ISIL. Mulcair and Trudeau are contributors to the problem, they empower ISIL by thinking we should remain paralyzed only reacting to its murderous tantrums. We have options. Our country was built by people who said no to Hitler. That I know as a Jew. No knee jerk liberal gave a damn about Hitler. They said as they do today-its not our problem, don't meddle. Bull crap. I thank the people of Canada who said, Hitler must be stopped. So when you ask me is it great to be Canadian yes...but its great because of the sacrifice people made to take down Hitler. That I know. Quote
Argus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Many other mebers here seem to know what IT is. Many other members here have IQs smaller than their waist size. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Exactly. Well said. And I think that is what scares some people as they see Iran as a future regional power and a threat to a certain country (would be thread hijacking if I name that country) also located in the middle east. And yes her and all of her female Iranian friends were stunningly beautiful and very progressive minded and intellectuals and very feminist too. Good for them. Iran is a threat to any country their missiles can reach. Anyone who doesn't see that knows nothing. And the 'certain country' would be the one they've been threatening to destroy for some time now, the one they've been funding and equipping terrorists to attack, which is an act of war, the one full of Jews. You might recall I kept trying to get from you a reason why Iran hated Israel so much. I believe your answer was that Iran had a deep respect for human rights and so was affronted by Israel's imperfect record... But no, of course Iran loves Jews! It's a wonderful place full of socially advanced people and beautiful women! Syrians love them too! Why, they're fleeing ISIS because they love Jews and will find some in Europe! Nearly all Muslims love Jews, well, except for those ever so rare 'extremists', don't you know... So no Jew needs to worry about tens of thousands of them flooding into his country! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Well no, they are not, Indians (and other Asians are). Below is the American story, and ours is pretty much the same: Average immigrant earnings as per stats canada United Kingdom 41,812 United States 41,867 Other North Europe 33,848 Germany 42,601 India 22,878 Pakistan 16,015 West Asia and Middle east 13, 817 http://global-economics.ca/empin_immigrant_region.htm Today's newcomers, despite being highly educated, take longer to become self-supporting than their predecessors. Some never do. What is even more worrisome is that their children are dropping out of school, creating an intergenerational cycle of poverty. "They're pulling the economy down," Drummond said. "I don't think people have really understood that." http://www.thestar.com/opinion/2007/07/25/immigrant_dream_turning_sour.html Thirty-five per cent of foreign-born residents in the survey were unable to handle everyday literacy tasks; this rises to 42 per cent when adults from the U.S. and British Isles are excluded. http://www.nald.ca/library/research/brokword/page22.htm Edited September 11, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Rue Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Canada First I will hold my chair out for you any day. Quote
Argus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Anecdotes don't make evidence. There is no evidence domestic abuse is higher in the sikh community than any other immigrant community. You realize the police in most jurisdictions are forbidden to keep statistics based on ethnicity, race or religion, right? Edited September 11, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 You can believe what you want and have the right to do so and since I have read your comments what you believe is totally worthless to me as well as a few others like you. That said I let the readers on the forum to read your comments and mind and decide whether what you and a few of your kind say which is hate propaganda (generalization of certain group of people as violent and rapist and stereotyping which based on definition of the word bigotry qualifies for that) or what I say (that there are good and bad people in every race, religion or group of people and people are equal and to be respected regardless of race, religion, color, national origin, gender, orientation but judged only based on the size their hearts and their mind) is UNCANADIAN. If only there were camps for people like him, eh! Re-education camps, maybe! Gulags? Then perpetually outraged people like you wouldn't have to read them any more! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Many other members here have IQs smaller than their waist size. Speak for yourself? Quote
GostHacked Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Many other members here have IQs smaller than their waist size. Quebec recently passed laws that make it a crime or punishable to insult a certain religion. Guess which one it is. I'll let you think about the impact of that one. Quote
Argus Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Speak for yourself? Case in point... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Quebec recently passed laws that make it a crime or punishable to insult a certain religion. Guess which one it is. I'll let you think about the impact of that one. I don't care what Quebec does. Such laws will be annulled by the SC anyway. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Argus and Ogft please stop it. Are you adults? Because right now you're acting like children. Quote
Argus Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Argus and Ogft please stop it. Are you adults? Because right now you're acting like children. I'm trying to communicate, and with him that means I have to reach deep, deep down into my childhood. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Canada First I will hold my chair out for you any day. Birds of a feather as they say or brain in this case. So, maybe between the two of you..? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Birds of a feather as they say or brain in this case. So, maybe between the two of you..? During my time in Africa we welcomed Jews. Jews did very well in our countries. Funny how when black majority took over most Jews and whites left.I'm contemplating going back though. I do miss it. It's hard to leave the place of your origin. Quote
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 It's hard to leave the place of your origin. Yes...I've wanted my own spaceship ever since I was a little kid. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Yes...I've wanted my own spaceship ever since I was a little kid. If you dislike Canada so. Why not just leave? Quote
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 I was talking about Earth actually. And it's a nice enough place but the locals have taken a lot of the fun out if it. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) The cost is too high we cannot afford more costly migrants right now. We have Canadians who are tired hungry and poor. Let's rake care if that first. Edited September 12, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
kimmy Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 So... why are such a small percentage of the Syrian refugees women and children? Why is such a large majority of them male? If it were really about protecting people most severely affected by the conflict, wouldn't we see a more even split along gender lines? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) So... why are such a small percentage of the Syrian refugees women and children? Why is such a large majority of them male? If it were really about protecting people most severely affected by the conflict, wouldn't we see a more even split along gender lines? -k Maybe it's a strategic decision of families to put their effort into getting the family member most likely to survive the trip here. Once that person does get here they turn their efforts towards helping the rest follow. Edited September 12, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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