The cost of Migrants

[CITIZEN_2015]

Are you saying you don't approve of my values? Yet, evidently, you have that right. I, on the other hand, do not have the right to dissaprove of Muslim values. Why is that?

But you do more than disapproval. You attack them. The other guy call them all filth!!!!

[Argus]

Syria was actually a fairly socially moderate state, so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that a lot of people like to delude themselves that 'moderate' Islam means the same as moderate means in Canada.

A moderate middle east Muslim is one who doesn't believe in suicide bombs or genocide or supporting terrorism. That does not at all preclude him believing that God requires women to cover themselves, or that women must obey their husband, or that Jews are pigs, or that homosexuals should be imprisoned, if not killed. The society over there is centuries behind ours in terms of social equality.

[CITIZEN_2015]

That's the second time I've seen you spitting out accusations about people being or liking Jews. You have a problem with Jews?

I have no problem with Jews whatsoever or unlike you any other race or religion. All my posts say that I judge people NOT based on race, religion, skin color, gender, orientation but size of their hearts and minds. And you know it well since you have been reading my posts.

Edited September 14, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

But you do more than disapproval. You attack them. The other guy call them all filth!!!!

I'm not attacking Muslims. What I'm doing is discussing immigration policy, and the, in my opinion, inadvisability of bringing over Muslims from that region who are unlikely to integrate, and who have socially regressive believes which are inimical to our own, and which are supported by their religion, which means unlikely to change any time soon. Further, satistics show they make a poor showing economically, as well. In my opinion, for those reasons, bringing over hundreds of thousands of them is not wise. That's my opinion and it's supported by the many cites I've posted on the subject.

Your opinions are based on reflexive emotions and nothing more.

[Argus]

I have no problem with Jews whatsoever or unlike you any other race or religion. All my posts say that I judge people NOT based on race, religion, skin color, gender, orientation but size of their hearts and minds. And you know it well since you have been reading my posts.

Then why do you accuse people of being Jews?

[ToadBrother]

I'm not attacking Muslims. What I'm doing is discussing immigration policy, and the, in my opinion, inadvisability of bringing over Muslims from that region who are unlikely to integrate, and who have socially regressive believes which are inimical to our own, and which are supported by their religion, which means unlikely to change any time soon. Further, satistics show they make a poor showing economically, as well. In my opinion, for those reasons, bringing over hundreds of thousands of them is not wise. That's my opinion and it's supported by the many cites I've posted on the subject.

Your opinions are based on reflexive emotions and nothing more.

Have you any significant evidence that regular immigrants from that region don't integrate?

[Canada_First]

I have no problem with Jews whatsoever or unlike you any other race or religion. All my posts say that I judge people NOT based on race, religion, skin color, gender, orientation but size of their hearts and minds. And you know it well since you have been reading my posts.

We and more importantly you, have no way to know the content and make up of 11 million refugees hearts and minds.

What we do know is that Syrian Muslims largely dislike Jews and disapprove of Israel. Wishing to destroy it.

They view homosexuality as a serious crime.

Women are little more than property.

Those are facts. Thats what we do know.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Then why do you accuse people of being Jews?

Why you see it as accusation!!!!!!???? When I see someone who so strongly supports certain group of people I ask if they belong to that group to see how biased or unbiased they are. You only accuse if you falsely state someone of being or doing a bad thing. Why you regard my statement as accusations. I think it was you or your friend who once asked me if I belong to certain nationality for admiring them for what they have achieved. I did not see it as accusations but a question so why do you see it as accusation?

Edited September 14, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

What we do know is that Syrian Muslims largely dislike Jews and disapprove of Israel. Wishing to destroy it.

They view homosexuality as a serious crime.

Women are little more than property.

Those are facts. Thats what we do know.

These are your facts. And when you call them names (like filth which I quoted you), this is clearly biased and bordering hate. So nothing that you say I believe and no one in her or his right mind will either when the hate is so transparent.

Edited September 15, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Canada_First]

These are you facts. And when you call them names (like filth which I quoted you), this is clearly biased and bordering hate. So nothing that you say I believe and no one in her or his right mind will either when the hate is so transparent.

FACTS are not personal belongings or preferences. They simply are.We must protect Canada against severe Islamic beliefs in order to protect the citizens in Canada now.

[Argus]

Have you any significant evidence that regular immigrants from that region don't integrate?

I can point to information from other countries, but Canada keeps almost no information based on race, religion or immigration. We don't know if Muslims are more likely to be commiting domestic assaults or rapes or anything else here than other Canadians, for example. We don't know what their social beliefs are, or what percentage of Muslim women here wear the chador or burqua. We do know that in general, people from the middle east perform poorly in economic terms as compared to other immigrants, but that information isn't nearly as fleshed out as it could be. Everything else is, as MH likes to say, anecdotal. For example, accidentally gleaned in an Ottawa Citizen story on the need for a community center for Somali teens, the author stated that the centre was even more impportant given that more than half the youths in custody in Ottawa's regional detentiona centre were Somalis. Plus, I've met a number of them, and spoken to a number of women who've dated or interacted with them. The evidence is all anecdotal, but it certainly points to their attitudes about women being regressive.

We didn't start getting Muslim immigrants until the 70s, and then it was a trickle. We really don't "know" whether Muslims will integrate or not. My point is why are we taking the chance given their demonstrate failure economically, and the rather poor attitudes of people int he middle east towards the values we hold?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

FACTS are not personal belongings or preferences. They simply are.We must protect Canada against severe Islamic beliefs in order to protect the citizens in Canada now.

We must protect Canada and its citizens from people like you and this is our fact. If you guys ever good in number, there will be chaos and likely civil war. This is not the Canada I want. God save Canada from your kind. You only bring chaos, riots, conflict, hate and civil war.

Edited September 15, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Canada_First]

Israel is a Jewish nation and one of our best friends.

Syrian Muslims dislike Jews and wish to destroy Israel. Our Canadian Jews may not be safe with this massive drop shipping of extremist Syrian Islamists into Canadian cities.

Why should we put our citizens at great risk?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Canada_First

[CITIZEN_2015]

You are making allegations you cannot prove. Like Syrians hating Jews. Like Canadian Jews will not be safe (we have already one million Muslims. How many Canadian Jews are hurt past many years?). Like they are all extremist Islamists. And as I said you have demonstrated your hate for them What you say nobody will believe you. You discredited yourself by calling Syrians filth as you showed your nature.

Edited September 14, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[cannuck]

I make it my practice to look into things which are bandied about a lot, like accusations against the Catholic Church. A lot of people like to throw accusations against the Catholic Church because of decades old child abuse. Virtually none of them know anything about the numbers involved, though. They've just heard a lot about it on the news.

The actual numbers of priests involved are, statistically, about the same as that in any other profession, or in the general population at large, in fact. In other words, Catholic priests were no more likely to be abusers of underage people than clerics from any other religion, or doctors, lawyers, teachers - or parents.

I just go about my business kind of a Forest Gump, if you will. In that process, I have met a fair number of people who were raised in Catholic orphanages (most in the '50s) and residential schools. I also have had the incredible good fortune to become acquainted with RCMP Sergeant who finally managed to press the Mt. Cashel investigation to its logical conclusion. I take their testimony as far, far more representative of reality than an internet link of any kind. Just as happened at Mt. Cashel, authorities in the post war period either turned a blind or ignorant eye to the cult and its conduct. A bit of attention to the stories from residential schools (not only Catholic BTW) would give you a far better idea of the correct proportions of abuse.

What you should have said is the number of priests (and nuns) CAUGHT were about the same as that in any other profession. I can tell you from all that I have learned that sexual, physical and emotional abuse of children was simply part of EVERY DAY LIFE in these institutions. And it wasn't some tiny minority of those involved.

What more could you expect when the sponsors of the Dark Ages made sexual deviance a pre-requisite to remaining in "service"?

Edited September 14, 2015 by cannuck

[Argus]

I just go about my business kind of a Forest Gump, if you will. In that process, I have met a fair number of people who were raised in Catholic orphanages (most in the '50s) and residential schools. I also have had the incredible good fortune to become acquainted with RCMP Sergeant who finally managed to press the Mt. Cashel investigation to its logical conclusion. I take their testimony as far, far more representative of reality than an internet link of any kind. Just as happened at Mt. Cashel, authorities in the post war period either turned a blind or ignorant eye to the cult and its conduct. A bit of attention to the stories from residential schools (not only Catholic BTW) would give you a far better idea of the correct proportions of abuse.

You're making my point for me. This type of abuse took place back in those days anywhere children were vulnerable, be they Catholic run orphanages or orphanges and boarding schools run by other institutions, including the government. For that matter, I think I posted something about the experience of Prince Charles at his high priced boarding school in Scotland. Among other things he was left in a cage naked under a cold shower. Back then, we didn't have the same sense of protectiveness of children, and smacking them was considered normal "spare the rod, spoil the child". If such things happened to a prince in a top flight boarding school one can imagine what happened to oprhans in other institutions... But that was society then.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/12/child-abuse-at-prince-charles-former-school-scotland

[hitops]

You realize the police in most jurisdictions are forbidden to keep statistics based on ethnicity, race or religion, right?

You realize that without that, you have no point right?

[Canada_First]

You realize that without that, you have no point right?

So because we don't keep track if it that means it's not happening?

[hitops]

Average immigrant earnings as per stats canada

United Kingdom 41,812

United States 41,867

Other North Europe 33,848

Germany 42,601

India 22,878

Pakistan 16,015

West Asia and Middle east 13, 817

http://global-economics.ca/empin_immigrant_region.htm

Today's newcomers, despite being highly educated, take longer to become self-supporting than their predecessors. Some never do. What is even more worrisome is that their children are dropping out of school, creating an intergenerational cycle of poverty.

"They're pulling the economy down," Drummond said. "I don't think people have really understood that."

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/2007/07/25/immigrant_dream_turning_sour.html

Thirty-five per cent of foreign-born residents in the survey were unable to handle everyday literacy tasks; this rises to 42 per cent when adults from the U.S. and British Isles are excluded.

http://www.nald.ca/library/research/brokword/page22.htm

Thanks for the decade-old references, with two-decade-old data. Did you even read those links yourself? They focus on data from the 80's and 90's. Quite irrelevant, the situation is very different today.

Something current:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Canadians

"Indo-Canadians are significantly more likely than the Canadian average to have a university degree, and most Indians in Canada are socio-economically middle class.[2] 54% of Indo-Canadians have household incomes greater than $60,000, compared to the Canadian average of 46%."

My guess is that if you have a university degree, you have basic literacy.

Anybody who has recently been to university, knows it is disproportionately packed with kids of Asian immigrant parents. As a doc I can tell you Indians are massively over-represented relative to their population in that line of work. In my department it is roughly a third. That is massively beyond their represented population. it is the same in nearly every hospital in any city I've worked or studied at, and same in the US.

http://www.profitguide.com/opportunity/from-india-with-money-30247

"....average household incomes of $95,000, or 14% above the Canadian average"

A book about it published in 2014:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=vo_HBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=statistics+on+indo+canadians+incomes&source=bl&ots=pVMO_d2b0O&sig=5eczPT53dbXuaG9fE_HJswXJ5Po&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCGoVChMIs931wYv4xwIVDHuSCh3dlQa7#v=onepage&q=statistics%20on%20indo%20canadians%20incomes&f=false

"The average annual income of Indo-Canadian is 20% more than the national average income in Canada"

My wife is Indian so I know tons. The universal joke among the kids is of success-driven parents who kick their butts until they are getting 100% in everything and becoming doctors. Then tons become doctors or other high-paying professions. This is the normal path for Indian immigrants today.

Edited September 15, 2015 by hitops

[hitops]

So because we don't keep track if it that means it's not happening?

No but it means you can't claim it is.

Pianos are falling from the sky. What, we aren't measuring how many are falling? Well then obviously you can't say they are not, can you?

Edited September 15, 2015 by hitops

[Canada_First]

Muslim gangs are raping white girls in Europe. That is happening and is verifiable.

Muslims in France are running wild. Thats also verifiable.

Muslim population doubles every 10 years. Once 10% in Canada the same will happen here. The left is happy to have it happen. I believe the left wants to destroy western nations by flooding them with Muslims who will eventually take over.

Every area of Canada has a mosque in it. So one day they'll be able to vote in majority of Muslim Mps and Mpps and local government. At that time they will be able to Change the constitution and vote in Sharia law.

[Derek 2.0]

And with that, a redux of Fortress Europa

European governments are aiming to deny the right of asylum to innumerable refugees by funding and building camps for them in Africa and elsewhere outside the European Union.

Under plans endorsed in Brussels on Monday evening, EU interior ministers agreed that once the proposed system of refugee camps outside the union was up and running, asylum claims from people in the camps would be inadmissible inEurope.

I think this and the American response, coupled with domestic polling of Canadians, will offer further resolve to the current Government's refugee policies........rue those that jumped too soon in offering to bring in thousands of unwanted refugees.

[Canada_First]

That's much better. Keep them over there away from us in the civilized western society.

[waldo]

Fortress Europa........rue those that jumped too soon in offering to bring in thousands of unwanted refugees.

are you really suggesting the numbers/(latest) response in Europe is the same as... here? Hundreds of thousands versus tens of thousands. That you could use the word "unwanted" is certainly in keeping with the Harper Conservative position! You are consistent with the/your party!

.

[Peter F]

From the Guardian article linked by Derek 2.0:

The European commissioner for migration, Dimitris Avramopoulos, admitted that the proposed policy was flawed since target countries in Africa were “not willing” to host EU-sponsored refugee camps on their soil.

Build camps in places where they won't be built. Problem solved.