Peter F Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) I'm suggesting (based on the evidence) that a very high percentage of people from Egypt (men and women) believe in the practice. If we bring 50K refugees and 10% of them are from Egypt, using the 92% number, we're going to end up with about 4500 people who are at least somewhat comfortable with the practice. An assumption that I would dispute - but nevertheless lets assume its true that 92% of Egyptians approve of FGM. Do you suppose their children have a greater or lesser chance of undergoing such mutilation in Egypt ? Would the same rate occur if they were in Canada? Edited September 10, 2015 by Peter F A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I'm suggesting (based on the evidence) that a very high percentage of people from Egypt (men and women) believe in the practice. If we bring 50K refugees and 10% of them are from Egypt, using the 92% number, we're going to end up with about 4500 people who are at least somewhat comfortable with the practice. per Harper Conservative government figures: over the last decade (2004-2013), 36,642 immigrants from Egypt have settled in Canada. Please apply your math skills:
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 The one constant of Canadian cultural and political discussion is that any suggestion that some other culture or religion elsewhere in the world is bad for some reason, or has bad things about it or is in desperate need of change, will draw left wingers falling all over themselves to proclaim that Canada is just as bad, if not worse. I don't think anyone said Canada is just as bad or worse. Posters have said repeatedly that you should be condemning the acts and not the entire culture. They've pointed out how our culture has barbaric acts as well, but we rarely see them as such (e.g., mutilating women's bodies by stuffing their breasts with silicone pouches, parading children around with make-up and sexualized clothing in child beauty pageants). The thing is you wouldn't define our culture by these things and you would be insulted by anyone who would. That's the point. Criticize the acts, call FGM, honour killings, forced marriages disgusting, abhorrent, whatever. Saying their entire "culture" is barbaric is just insulting though.
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 does it just come natural for you to equate every Muslim with IS/ISIS/ISIL... or do you have to work at that? The societies and cultures and values of that region are very tightly closed and intertwined in a very conservative, deeply observant religious grip. And there is virtually no room to question them because if it's the will of God, then you don't question that. If you do you get arrested or killed for blasphemy or insulting God. The only way it's ever going to change is through outside pressure. Unfortunately, there is NO such pressure coming from the Left, only from the Right. You won't find Obama criticising Egyptian society for mutilating girls, or Mulcair or Trudeau talking about the need for ME governments to put in legislation to combat domestic violence or respect womens rights. That's for damn sure! You won't even see them uttering a peep of protest about the vicious homophobic cultures and government laws there. That wouldn't be respectful of their cultures, after all! No, what you'll see them doing is berating Israel and putting their arms around Arab leaders for photo ops to show how inclusive they are. And you, of course, are a prime example of the Left here. No criticism of any of the brutal misogeny and violent homopobia is acceptable to you - unless it's about the Catholics, of course, or the Jews. Any attempt to point out how backward and brutal many aspects of ME culture is draw you stumbling forward to frantically defend them and proclaim Canada is just as bad! It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 You are correct. The mosque that he visited while on the campaign trail, and didn't allow the media into, has not, to my knowledge, been convicted of being a terrorist spawning ground. my apologies. good on ya! Of course, that Montreal mosque in question (visited in 2011) was visited by Trudeau a month before... a month before... the Pentagon released information on it. Of course, that didn't stop Harper Conservatives from leveraging that Trudeau visit on many fronts - we could visit the history of that... if you'd like.
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 You certainly like putting words into people's mouths here. Nobody defends FGM, honour killings or anything else like that. Don't be ridiculous. Of course they do! Of course you do! That's what you've been doing for the last several pages! Oh, you don't specifically defend the acts, but you earnestly defend the brutal and misogynistic cultures behind those acts from any and all judgement or criticism! And in doing so, you are, in effect, defending the acts themselves. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Of course they do! Of course you do! That's what you've been doing for the last several pages! Oh, you don't specifically defend the acts, but you earnestly defend the brutal and misogynistic cultures behind those acts from any and all judgement or criticism! And in doing so, you are, in effect, defending the acts themselves. It's not my fault you have difficulty comprehending what people are saying. If you think people are defending those things, then you should probably have someone with a better grasp on language explain posts to you. Or perhaps, just maybe, you're intentionally putting words in people's mouths to be offensive. Are you trolling, Scotty? Is that what you're doing?
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I feel we should get them over here where the supposed 92% rate of FGM is significantly lower. Are you suggesting they should be left there? The problem is that these acts are a product of the religion based culture of the ME, and when you bring over hundreds of thousands of people from that area, to join together with hundreds of thousands more already here, you help build up a subset culture here within Canada which is self-sustaining. They have their own community centres, their own mosques, their own gathering places, where that cultural mindset is supported and reinforced. I don't WANT hundreds of thousands, let alone millions of people in Canada with that kind of barbaric value set. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Luckily you are a minority. Because, unlike you, I'm not willing to defend female genital mutilation, honor killings, child rape and wife beating? It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 It's not my fault you have difficulty comprehending what people are saying. If you think people are defending those things, then you should probably have someone with a better grasp on language explain posts to you. Or perhaps, just maybe, you're intentionally putting words in people's mouths to be offensive. Are you trolling, Scotty? Is that what you're doing? You don't have the intellectual honesty to deal with your own behaviour. Go ahead and keep proclaiming your innocence while you defend repressive, brutal, misogynistic and homophobic cultures in the name of being inclusive and open-minded. You might fool yourself, but you're not fooling me. And I don't give a shit if I'm offending you. Your self-delusional defense of such things disgusts me. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 And you, of course, are a prime example of the Left here. No criticism of any of the brutal misogeny and violent homopobia is acceptable to you - unless it's about the Catholics, of course, or the Jews. Any attempt to point out how backward and brutal many aspects of ME culture is draw you stumbling forward to frantically defend them and proclaim Canada is just as bad! I've not said word one about Canada... quit making shyte up. Please sir, it would be a thread distraction to discuss the, as you say, "brutal misogyny and violent homophobia of Catholics/Jews".
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Are you trolling, Scotty? Is that what you're doing? bingo!
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I don't think anyone said Canada is just as bad or worse. Posters have said repeatedly that you should be condemning the acts and not the entire culture. They've pointed out how our culture has barbaric acts as well, but we rarely see them as such (e.g., mutilating women's bodies by stuffing their breasts with silicone pouches, parading children around with make-up and sexualized clothing in child beauty pageants). The thing is you wouldn't define our culture by these things and you would be insulted by anyone who would. That's the point. Criticize the acts, call FGM, honour killings, forced marriages disgusting, abhorrent, whatever. Saying their entire "culture" is barbaric is just insulting though. So, you are equating forced marriage with children, removing womens' sexual genitalia, systemic misogyny, systemic homosexual abuse,murdering cartoonists (to be fair, anyone who depicts Mohammod, cartoon or no) which is all cultural based, to narcissism displayed by a very small percentage of the population? So, this narcissism has been going on for centuries, hey, and we riot and kill when not allowed our narcissism, hey?
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 bingo! Troll alert Troll alert No valuable content added Troll alert
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 So, you are equating forced marriage with children, removing womens' sexual genitalia, systemic misogyny, systemic homosexual abuse,murdering cartoonists (to be fair, anyone who depicts Mohammod, cartoon or no) which is all cultural based, to narcissism displayed by a very small percentage of the population? So, this narcissism has been going on for centuries, hey, and we riot and kill when not allowed our narcissism, hey? WTF is wrong with you people? How about all of you guys try reading what's written instead of making up mouth-breathing garbage. I'm not going to dignify these fabrications anymore. If you want to talk about what I actually said, then address what I said instead of your intellectually dishonest lies that you claim are what I'm "really" saying.
Scotty Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) I don't think anyone said Canada is just as bad or worse. Posters have said repeatedly that you should be condemning the acts and not the entire culture. They've pointed out how our culture has barbaric acts as well, but we rarely see them as such (e.g., mutilating women's bodies by stuffing their breasts with silicone pouches, parading children around with make-up and sexualized clothing in child beauty pageants). The thing is you wouldn't define our culture by these things and you would be insulted by anyone who would. That's the point. Criticize the acts, call FGM, honour killings, forced marriages disgusting, abhorrent, whatever. Saying their entire "culture" is barbaric is just insulting though. Our culture might have an unhealthy obsession with sexual attractiveness on the part of both sexes, but that's a hell of a far cry from cutting off little girl's clitorises because you fear they'll become whores otherwise. And while you might protest at the sexualized clothing of young girls, society has made it very clear that young girls are completely off limits, even for pictures, let alone any sexual behaviour, right up to 18. Meanwhile, there is an unhealthy obsession with little girls as sex partners in the middle east, derived from the fact the prophet married a 9 year old girl, which you completely ignore. Nobody even knows the degree of child rape going on in the region because no one would ever report such things to the police. Besides, what's worse, a culture which makes girls dress up attractively, or one which throws black ghost sheets over their heads and orders them to be invisible upon pain of beatings or death? Edited September 10, 2015 by Scotty It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) WTF is wrong with you people? How about all of you guys try reading what's written instead of making up mouth-breathing garbage. I'm not going to dignify these fabrications anymore. If you want to talk about what I actually said, then address what I said instead of your intellectually dishonest lies that you claim are what I'm "really" saying. what the fu5k is wrong with you people? What, it's exactly what you said wtf is wrong with you? Edited September 10, 2015 by drummindiver
On Guard for Thee Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Because, unlike you, I'm not willing to defend female genital mutilation, honor killings, child rape and wife beating? Um, I would refer you to a Canadian document known as the criminal code.
eyeball Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 In the meantime, it's worth noting that this discussion isn't about ISIL, but rather fundamentalist religious and cultural fanatics of all stripes from the middle east. ALL stripes? Do you have any examples of liberal progressive fundamentalist religious fanatics...even one? A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I don't WANT hundreds of thousands, let alone millions of people in Canada... don't shyte your pants here... this is simply a waldoFactoid (per StatsCan): "On a regional basis, Asia (including the Middle East) remained Canada's largest source of immigrants between 2006 and 2011. Among all recent immigrants who arrived between 2006 and 2011, roughly 661,600 or 56.9% came from Asia (including the Middle East)."
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Would the same rate occur if they were in Canada? So we should bring them all here, then?
Smallc Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 per Harper Conservative government figures: over the last decade (2004-2013), 36,642 immigrants from Egypt have settled in Canada. I'm not talking about immigrants. People who choose to move here and contribute are very different than refugees.
cybercoma Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 So we should bring them all here, then? Really? Strawman much?
waldo Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 Troll alert Troll alert No valuable content added Troll alert Troll alert Troll alert No valuable content added Troll alert .
drummindiver Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 don't shyte your pants here... this is simply a waldoFactoid (per StatsCan): "On a regional basis, Asia (including the Middle East) remained Canada's largest source of immigrants between 2006 and 2011. Among all recent immigrants who arrived between 2006 and 2011, roughly 661,600 or 56.9% came from Asia (including the Middle East)." but but harper doesn't let immigrants in he's a big meany but but by your own numbers, that's over a million immigrants in just over 5 years not too shabby
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