Cecil the Lion and the Phenomena of Public Shaming.

[WIP]

They'll be more likely to think twice now too. That can't hurt.

Agreed! It's bad that so many get away with causing so much harm, but at least one of them didn't.

[WestCoastRunner]

Another tragedy in all of this are the Cubs that were left behind. Jericho can only do so much to protect them. When Cecil was killed it may also be a death sentence for the Cubs.

[Derek 2.0]

But killing endangered animals is not something you can expect the proper authorities to deal with in a court of law. It's too late for that and it might be too late to save most of these species at all. If, from now on, these "hunters" will think twice because there is a legitimate danger their lives will be ruined too, then it was certainly, without question, worth it.

Maybe so, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that rich North American hunters are a major contributing factor in the eventual extinction of the African Lion........I would think habit loss caused by the estimated doubling of the human population of sub-Saharan Africa by 2050, resulting in the the Lion's natural habitat being converted to farm land, likewise the killing of lions that attack livestock by locals, accounts for far more lion deaths than rich Big-White-Hunters...........

--------

One of the oldest and most successful animal conservation groups in North America is Ducks Unlimited, which since the 1930s has conserved over 10 million acres of wetlands, watersheds and forests across North America.......The majority of DU members, and in turn donors, are Duck Hunters........sometimes those with actual vested interests are the most effective avenues for change, as opposed to those that don't understand the issue, but go out of their way to "like" or "tweet" said issue, that seems popular for 15 minutes..

Edited August 2, 2015 by Derek 2.0

[kimmy]

And if he is telling the truth and doing something legally then why is he being pilloried?

He wasn't doing something legally. That is an established fact. His defense is that he claims he didn't know they were breaking the law.

And what weight should we give his claims? He has a proven track record of poaching. And he has a proven track record of lying about it. He was caught and confessed to both of those things in the United States, when he and his buddies drove into a Wisconsin wildlife reserve, killed a bear, then drove back to Minnesota and lied to authorities in claiming they'd killed the bear there, instead of in the protected wildlife area. We know he did that, because he confessed to it.

And that whole scenario doesn't sound too different from what he and these guides did this time: drove into the national park where Cecil was protected, and lured him out into the neighboring farmer's land where they killed him. The farm owner has been charged in connection with this as well; he was in on it. You really don't think Dr Walt was aware that this farm was right next to the national park when he booked his safari? That he didn't know they were heading into the national park? You don't think he was the least bit suspicious that they insisted on leading the lion back the direction they came from before they let him shoot it?

You think all of this just didn't register with him? You think the guides told him something like "No, Meester! Must not shoot lion here! Haunted forest! Evil spirit! Much bad luck! Must lure lion back to farm before shoot!" and he bought it? Do you think Dr Palmer graduated dental school and became this financially successful by being stupid? Personally, I think his claim that he didn't know what was going on is a big fat lie.

And the question of his legal guilt only matters in court. He might get extradited to Zimbabwe and a judge there can decide if they believe his version of the story.

There's lots of things that are legal, but are still scummy. If Dr Walt had gone to Zimbabwe and got real permits to hunt a lion that wasn't on protected land and part of a research project, that might have been legal, but I still don't have to like a guy who goes out and blows $50,000 to kill an endangered animal so he can feel like a big man.

Are we going to shut down slaughter houses of commercial processing of meat because some people do not like to kill animals?

Surely one must err on the side of fairness rather than playing into an emotional knee jerk reaction to a personal view of the world.

Cattle and pigs are never going extinct. Rhinos and lions and whales and lots of other things probably are.

Do you want your grandkids to grow up in a world where the only animals left are ones that we've decided to grow in feed lots? That's the direction we're heading.

-k

[GostHacked]

I'm personally starting to get tired of FB friends sharing this story

WWWTT

Easy solution, ditch Facebook. It is a vehicle that perpetrates this type of behaviour. Most social media works the same way. I am all for a public shaming in a sense, but I do not advocate deliberately making his family a target of harassment.

[GostHacked]

Attacking the profit motive, as you say, seems like a fruitless mission. How many rich guys are there around the world? I don't even think this dentist can be called wealthy. Can a dent really be made in the demand? Compare this to the drug trade, going after the drug users is pointless. The African nations should be going after the traffickers of animal parts, but they don't seem to be able or willing to do much about it. Wrecking one person's life over a single animal is typical of the media horde.

If he can drop 50 grand on a trip, I'd classify that as well off. No matter how high you put the price there will be someone out there with enough cash that will want to do this type of activity.

[GostHacked]

You're sidestepping the morality part. Is there NOTHING your dentist would do in his/her spare time that would cause you to pause before giving her/him your business ?

How long you gonna go around with that hook in your mouth?

[WIP]

This latest story tells us something about his character: Dentist who killed Cecil the lion was accused of sexual harassment by a former employee at his practice and settled out of court for $127,500

Dr. Walter Palmer, the Minnesota dentist who has achieved worldwide notoriety for killing the most famous lion in Africa paid out $127,500 in 2009 to settle a sexual harassment claim, it was revealed today.

The settlement was made to a former employee at his Minneapolis practice who alleged that Dr. Palmer subjected her to 'ongoing and unwelcome sexual harassment by, but not limited to, verbal comments and physical conduct involving her breasts, buttocks and genitalia'.

The woman alleged that Dr. Palmer, who has gone into hiding since he slaughtered Cecil the lion, was asked to stop his behavior, but continued. Her complaint also alleges she also lost her job because she reported his alleged untoward conduct.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3179047/Dentist-killed-Cecil-lion-accused-sexual-harassment-former-employee-practice-settled-court-127-500.html#ixzz3hiVcbBvp

Seems dentistry is even a more lucrative business than a lot of us realized!

[WIP]

Easy solution, ditch Facebook. It is a vehicle that perpetrates this type of behaviour. Most social media works the same way. I am all for a public shaming in a sense, but I do not advocate deliberately making his family a target of harassment.

I kept my Facebook account active for all of about 3 or 4 weeks a few years ago when I got talked into signing up. Once you join, Facebook won't let you leave! A lot of people who are my age and older don't like using facebook, so I wasn't seeing much point to sign up for surveillance by marketers....and maybe government agencies too. I found myself collecting Facebook "friends" that I either didn't like or didn't want to know.

But, I've found having a Twitter account at least useful for getting news and information. Main complaint about Twitter is the fake clickbait accounts and you soon find yourself in a likeminded silo where everyone shares the same opinions and information if you express your opinions on public issues.

[GostHacked]

Irrelevant....encroachment and safety for humans by/for the people who actually have to scratch out a living means more dead lions. It's easy to sit in a comfy "North American" city and preach that crap to sub-Saharan Africans desperate to survive by any means necessary.

So when is America declaring war on lions? I mean that dentist must have felt soooooooooo threatened by an animal several thousand kilometers away.

Also your trolling backfired on you in a sense that these lions were protected meaning ... ah screw it, why the F do I bother.

[GostHacked]

I trust you have proof?

I believe I can help you here. Lions can run, faster than a human. That seems to prove that a truck was needed. Also if they are in a remote area then they would need some kind of transportation to get to the hunting grounds.

[Derek 2.0]

I believe I can help you here. Lions can run, faster than a human. That seems to prove that a truck was needed. Also if they are in a remote area then they would need some kind of transportation to get to the hunting grounds.

Hence, prior to the advent of trucks, humans were unable to hunt lions.............thanks for the help.

[GostHacked]

I don't really disagree with this comment.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's always African nations, the rain forest nations, and basically non white western nations that these alleged crimes are occurring that seem to only garnish western attention.

Lots and lots of examples happening right here right now in western nations, but squat concern!

Is raising a pig for slaughter any different than raising an animal to hunt any different?

Screaming double standard!

WWWTT

I don't see anyone raising lions for purposes of hunting.

[WIP]

I don't see anyone raising lions for purposes of hunting.

The habitats for wildlife in southern Africa are disappearing and getting broken up into parcels of land too small for large land animals to maintain healthy, sustainable populations. Populations are still increasing while large sections of land are being sold off to foreign investors and fenced off to grow cash crops for foreign markets. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the leaders that the US and Europe have kept in place will put anything and everything up for sale!

All that said, the backstory here that doesn't get enough attention is the motley collection of wealthy sociopath collectors who want to say they killed one of the last ___________ before they became extinct. Walter Palmer's misfortune is being the unlucky great white hunter to get noticed by the social media movement and not be rich enough to be completely sheltered from public wrath!

[On Guard for Thee]

I hear just lately that after the latest illegal killing of a lion, Zimbabwe has shut down a large area for hunting of local game, including elephants. Now I ask, what kind of a dolt goes hunting an elephant? Is it because it's fairly easy to hit because it's such a huge animal, or is it because the have to stalk it, perhaps across a grassy plane while you take aim from a jeep with the hired driver at the wheel? Or is it just because they love the exquisite taste of elephant meat? It's true you can't ever find it on the shelf, not even at Costco. Or is it somehow "stimulating" to bring down such a large beast. Too bad for Dr. Walt. He belongs to a group that we'd probably be better off without. Maybe let's send them out on the plain and get in our jeeps.

[WWWTT]

I don't see anyone raising lions for purposes of hunting.

Just because you're ignorant on this subject does not have any relevance beyond that of just your own opinion bro!

I found this on my first search! You're going to have to pick it up a few notches bro because the level of debate on this site is at a higher level. (sorry to come off a little harsh)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/03/canned-hunting-lions-bred-slaughter

Now this term is new to me "canned hunting" but I have heard of this before for some time now happening on at least two continents (NA and Africa)

Now that I'm debating from a stronger position with you, I'll post the question again, What's the difference between raising pigs for a rib fest and canned hunting?

WWWTT

Edited August 3, 2015 by WWWTT

[WWWTT]

The habitats for wildlife in southern Africa are disappearing and getting broken up into parcels of land too small for large land animals to maintain healthy, sustainable populations. Populations are still increasing while large sections of land are being sold off to foreign investors and fenced off to grow cash crops for foreign markets. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the leaders that the US and Europe have kept in place will put anything and everything up for sale!

And here's the screaming double standard!

North America and Europe were at one time thousands of years ago (at least much of Europe) covered with forests and way more wildlife. But it was all cleared to make way for human advancement/development.

So where's the effort to buy up farms and land to return to the wild in NA and/or Europe? Where's the outcry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gray_wolf_populations_by_country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_brown_bear

And this is probably one of the most saddest stories you will ever hear!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_lynx

The beautiful Iberian Lynx was once a jewel across Portugal and Spain!

This feline was completely devastated through human expansion that killed off it's primary prey of rabbits.

Did you know the Iberian Lynx is the world's most endangered feline and Europe's most endangered carnivore????

Where's the outcry?

WWWTT

Edited August 3, 2015 by WWWTT

[GostHacked]

Just because you're ignorant on this subject does not have any relevance beyond that of just your own opinion bro!

I found this on my first search! You're going to have to pick it up a few notches bro because the level of debate on this site is at a higher level. (sorry to come off a little harsh)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/03/canned-hunting-lions-bred-slaughter

Now this term is new to me "canned hunting" but I have heard of this before for some time now happening on at least two continents (NA and Africa)

Now that I'm debating from a stronger position with you, I'll post the question again, What's the difference between raising pigs for a rib fest and canned hunting?

WWWTT

The difference is what animals we consider domesticated farm animals for consumption. Lions are not fitting into this category. I am not sure your argument position is any stronger when you understand the difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.

Food and necessity (in a sense) -A pig gets slaughtered and we have food.

Entertainment - A lion gets slaughtered and what do we have? Does anyone eat lion?

But I will say I am disappointed to hear that these canned hunt farms exist. It's no longer hunting by the true traditional sense of the word. It really should be illegal.

[sharkman]

And as I suspected, the media horde has decided to go all activist on AMERICAN hunters this summer(like no rich bastards from Asia, Europe or Russia go hunting? And of course black poachers get ignored).

Here's some more read meat for them.

Two things may cause the drive-by-media to take it easy on the hunter. One, it's a she. A female won't get the blood of the man hatin' feminists boiling, in the media lynch mob. Two, she works at a university, something the MSM no doubt deeply respect as universities are bastions of liberal ideology. Oh, and I'll throw in a bonus third, reports are that the giraffe didn't have a name, though researchers are digging furiously. If they find a name, I'm betting on Cedrick.

[sharkman]

So when is America declaring war on lions? I mean that dentist must have felt soooooooooo threatened by an animal several thousand kilometers away.

Also your trolling backfired on you in a sense that these lions were protected meaning ... ah screw it, why the F do I bother.

Like half of your posts in this thread aren't trolling?

[WWWTT]

The difference is what animals we consider domesticated farm animals for consumption. Lions are not fitting into this category. I am not sure your argument position is any stronger when you understand the difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.

Food and necessity (in a sense) -A pig gets slaughtered and we have food.

Entertainment - A lion gets slaughtered and what do we have? Does anyone eat lion?

But I will say I am disappointed to hear that these canned hunt farms exist. It's no longer hunting by the true traditional sense of the word. It really should be illegal.

Fully am aware of domestication!

Domestication actually LIMITS/RESTRICTS and REDUCES wild life!

Not necessarily writing that canned hunting is a good thing. But NOBODY has the MORAL HIGHER AUTHORITY to impose their ethics upon how others may choose to earn a living!

Yes that's right! Those people in South Africa whom choose to maintain a canned hunting ranch are earning a living and generating income! That IS THEIR RIGHT! Are you saying those people do not have a right to earn a living for themselves and their families?

WWWTT

[kimmy]

And as I suspected, the media horde has decided to go all activist on AMERICAN hunters this summer(like no rich bastards from Asia, Europe or Russia go hunting? And of course black poachers get ignored).

Here's some more read meat for them.

Two things may cause the drive-by-media to take it easy on the hunter. One, it's a she. A female won't get the blood of the man hatin' feminists boiling, in the media lynch mob. Two, she works at a university, something the MSM no doubt deeply respect as universities are bastions of liberal ideology. Oh, and I'll throw in a bonus third, reports are that the giraffe didn't have a name, though researchers are digging furiously. If they find a name, I'm betting on Cedrick.

Ok, so first off Cecil had a name because he was part of a long-running research project. It's not just something people tacked on after he was killed.

Second, how did you hear about this Sabrina Corgatelli person? You heard about it because people are mad at her and the media picked up on it. So spare us the clap-trap that people aren't mad at her because she's a woman. The stuff on her facebook page makes clear that's not the case.

She's clearly loving the attention, trolling people on her facebook page. "To all the haters. Stay tuned, you’re gonna have so much more to be p***** off about."

She doesn't have a dental practice. She does have a web store, where she sells hunting apparel. 95% of people probably think she's scum, but they're not the peope who would buy her stuff anyway. Her customers would be a bunch of Ted Nugent type assholes, and killing a bunch of wild animals probably makes her a hero to them. She's probably hoping all this attention brings more Ted Nugent pricks to her web-store.

-k

[WIP]

And here's the screaming double standard!

North America and Europe were at one time thousands of years ago (at least much of Europe) covered with forests and way more wildlife. But it was all cleared to make way for human advancement/development.

So where's the effort to buy up farms and land to return to the wild in NA and/or Europe? Where's the outcry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gray_wolf_populations_by_country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_brown_bear

And this is probably one of the most saddest stories you will ever hear!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_lynx

The beautiful Iberian Lynx was once a jewel across Portugal and Spain!

This feline was completely devastated through human expansion that killed off it's primary prey of rabbits.

Did you know the Iberian Lynx is the world's most endangered feline and Europe's most endangered carnivore????

Where's the outcry?

WWWTT

I think the system of setting aside nature reserves has been a mistake ever since Teddy Roosevelt created the first national parks in the US more than a century ago. The reserves shrink whenever land becomes too expensive or opportunistic leaders like piece-of-crap Wisconsin Governor - Scott Walker give the go-ahead for mining operations right in the middle of the parks.

The idea that we can live the kind of polluting, energy-wasting and resource-depleting societies we've created and have set-asides that will save endangered species is a joke! The larger the animals, the more unbroken territory they require. And their continued viability in those spaces is drastically affected by pollution and changes in weather patterns brought on by climate change. This is why any talk of "sustainable hunting" of endangered species is bullshit to begin with. Every loss among the endangered large land animals depletes already shrinking populations and harms the gene pool, making them increasingly unlikely to survive into the future.

I know this is a story about Africa because lions, leopards, elephants, rhinos, hippos etc. get wider public attention. There are certain species that will get the attention of the public and others that won't....which is why Greenpeace focused on harp seals off Newfoundland rather than the Alaskan seal hunt because their seal pups weren't cute enough to spark public outrage and donations coming in. That's the story of human motivations and the kind of world we live in!

[bush_cheney2004]

And here's the screaming double standard!

North America and Europe were at one time thousands of years ago (at least much of Europe) covered with forests and way more wildlife. But it was all cleared to make way for human advancement/development.

So where's the effort to buy up farms and land to return to the wild in NA and/or Europe? Where's the outcry?

Agreed...how dare those (black) Africans "destroy" natural habitat for agriculture, ranching, and other economic development.

[BubberMiley]

I thought comparing social media outrage to getting hung from a tree in a lynching was parodied to the point where no one would make such a ridiculous analogy ever again. Do they really think talking in overblown hyperbole helps them make their case?