Immigration

[Topaz]

Since Charles, locked my topic because is was "poor attempt to start a discussion" There were several replies BUT, Charles the boss and so what the point was Immigration has kick out many families in the last ten years for various reasons and I thought and many other people who heard this also agreed that it was one unreal reason to kick the guy out of the country, when months before, this government was bring in "foreign" workers. The fact that the guy was helping his girlfriend did NOT stop a Canadian from getting a job. I could go on but Charles may lock this one too, so I'll just ask Charles, is this better????

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't worry...it was a wonderful, romantic story. Think of it as a combination of HGTV home remodeling and international house hunters. There was love, wall repair, immigration law, a border crossing to the evil USA, and maybe even a deportation ! Hope they live happily ever after in the U.K.

Isn't it legal in Canada to have your friends repair cracks in the wall ? Was there any pay involved (no jokes please).

What is the actual law that was violated ?

[scribblet]

I don't think he did violate any law actually and originally IMO this was just another attempt to smear Harper with a sob story. However, I think what happened is when crossing the border they were asked for info. and their cell phones, which border security people can legally do. They searched his cell phone and found material which in their opinion led them to believe he was illegally working in Canada. Illegally working in Canada will get you kicked out.

It appears that they were wrong, but it leads to the question of cell phones and incriminating evidence... IMO if there is a question of legality anywhere, delete everything on your phone before crossing the border. Or, take a burner phone with you that has nothing on it other then some contacts.

[bush_cheney2004]

OK...but aren't the elements of illegal employment in Canada documented somewhere? If a U.S. utility employee crosses the border to help out after an ice storm or other disaster, is he/she working illegally ?

[scribblet]

OK...but aren't the elements of illegal employment in Canada documented somewhere? If a U.S. utility employee crosses the border to help out after an ice storm or other disaster, is he/she working illegally ?

Good question, as far as border security goes I don't know. I would think that if a U.S. utility employee crosses the border they would have an exemption...

[Derek 2.0]

OK...but aren't the elements of illegal employment in Canada documented somewhere? If a U.S. utility employee crosses the border to help out after an ice storm or other disaster, is he/she working illegally ?

Not if the intent/purpose is declared, and both the employee/employer register and file Canadian tax returns (Doesn't often result in a tax liability).......after all, the American utility worker is still being paid by his American employer.........

Its much the same going in the opposite direction. For example, I've worked for previous and currently work for a large US corporation, that has subsidiaries in Canada. I'm entitled to go to business meetings, courses, briefings etc in the United States devoid of any extra fuss (as I'm employed by the Canadian division), but when I'm "working" directly for the US parent in the United States I do so under a sponsored type L visa, and have to file an American tax return, likewise a Canadian return......my tax liability for each country is then dependent on time working in each country.

[Moonlight Graham]

This story is odd. I don't see the big deal unless the guy was getting paid by girlfriend to help her. Otherwise he's not employed and thus not "working" so he doesn't need a work visa I wouldn't think.

[Guest]

I could understand it if it was after today's game...

Edited June 28, 2015 by bcsapper

[Canada_First]

We have almost unchecked immigration in this country. We are the world's garbage can. We allow all the world's garbage people to live in Canada. They're laughing at us that we give everything away to a bunch of people who paid nothing into it.

[Michael Hardner]

We have almost unchecked immigration in this country. We are the world's garbage can. We allow all the world's garbage people to live in Canada. They're laughing at us that we give everything away to a bunch of people who paid nothing into it.

No, we're a model of integration, dialogue, acceptance and prosperity.

That's why fringe opinions like yours sound like odd goat bleats from the dark woods. Other countries have whole parties that go this way. Thankfully, these are mostly the opinions of a dying demographic.

We've been hearing them for decades now, and Canada is still Canada. Young immigrants who grew up here have Canadian attitudes, at least the many that I work with every day.

[PIK]

No micheal we are not. we are foolish to allow such numbers of people in to this country especially people that do not share our values and morals. And yes it work good for a long while but not now. IMO This country is heading to a very nasty future, because of uncheck immigration, this is where the great charter of rights comes back and bites us in the ass. Trudeau SR is still haunting us.

[Argus]

No micheal we are not. we are foolish to allow such numbers of people in to this country especially people that do not share our values and morals. And yes it work good for a long while but not now. IMO This country is heading to a very nasty future, because of uncheck immigration, this is where the great charter of rights comes back and bites us in the ass. Trudeau SR is still haunting us.

Immigration made sense for much of our history. We had wide open spaces, and almost anyone willing to work could be a farmer, fisherman, lumberman, etc. Didn't matter what their education was. Didn't really even matter if they spoke the language. The work wasn't complicated. And if they didn't want to work, well, they starved, or gave up and went back home. No skin off our noses.

Fast forward to the 1970s.

Jobs are getting increasingly complicated. Computers are coming into play. Technology is filtering into every type of job imaginable. Communications skills are starting to become much more important. And at that time the Liberal government pivots our main source of immigration from Europe to the third world. Who's in the third world? Much less sophisticated people than in Europe, with much less education, and far less comparable job skills.

Suddenly, there's a wide gap between the type of people Canada's economy needs, and the kind of people its getting. Further, the implementation of social programs means failed immigrants don't have to go home any more. They can stay and get government subsidies.

Fast forward to the 80s. Mulroney's government decides to triple immigration, despite economists suggesting this will not help the economy, in hopes that it will lure more ethnic voters to the Progressive Conservative party. Even more third world immigrants flood into Canada even as technology assumes an ever growing importance in society and in work.

Here we are in 2015. Virtually every job above minimum wage requires the ability to work with multiple technologies and enhanced communication abilities. The tories announce, out of the blue, that they're increasing immigration this year. The NDP and Liberals promise to increase immigration from the third world even more, and the NDP in particular, promise to abandon screening them for job skills, language skills, and education. No party, with eyes on ethnic votes, appears to give a damn at the possible damage they're doing to Canada, only on what benefits they can get from promising the world to ethnic groups.

This is the sad state of immigration in Canada. Yet anyone who questions its wisdom gets called names by leftists who have, bizarrely, embraced Mulroney's vastly increased immigration numbers as holy writ which only the most evil of racists would dare to question.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

IMO This country is heading to a very nasty future, because of uncheck immigration, this is where the great charter of rights comes back and bites us in the ass.

Everything in your post is IYO, not IMO.

[PIK]

And the liberals brought in tons of people from French Africa just to keep French speakers numbers up and ,that is the problem.

[TheTomTrudeau]

Why aren't the leaders arguing about immigration? It should be in the top ten most important topics.

[Michael Hardner]

Why aren't the leaders arguing about immigration? It should be in the top ten most important topics.

Harper brought it up during the debates, basically defending the status quo with extra screening for security.

[Hudson Jones]

We have almost unchecked immigration in this country.

I am curious: Are you some kind of a satirical character who comes in here with extreme and mostly false information to make fun of Harper supporters?

We have one of the strictest immigration policies in the G8.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Hudson Jones

[Argus]

That's why fringe opinions like yours sound like odd goat bleats from the dark woods.

Way to engage in respectful dialogue, Mister Facilitator.

Other countries have whole parties that go this way. Thankfully, these are mostly the opinions of a dying demographic.

Your belief is entirely unsupported by fact. Vast numbers of Canadians dislike our immigration system and always have. Every poll taken shows this. Nor is it only old people. Lots of young people dislike being in classes where they are the minority in their own country.

And other countries have whole parties that go this way because they have proportional rep type government. If Trudeau and/or Mulcair give us proportional rep you can be certain there will be an anti-immigration party in Canada, and that they will get seats in parliament.

Young immigrants who grew up here have Canadian attitudes, at least the many that I work with every day.

Interestingly, there are a lot of immigrants in this new area where I live. Know how I know? Because of all the little girls who wear hijabs. My neighbour across the street seems like a nice guy. He was born and grew up in Canada. But when it came time to get a wife, he, of course, returned to the old country to get a proper Muslim girl to marry. His attitude on the hijab is that they're an absolute religious requirement for all females. His wife certainly doesn't go outside without one - not that she goes outside much... When I met my new White neighbour, one of the first things he did was introduce me to his wife. I've spoken to the Arab-Canadian neighbour a half dozen times now, several times with his wife hovering not far off. He's never introduced us.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

Immigration has been positive to Canada. True we can be more selective and enhance the system so that we can pick more of those with best of education and assets and those who are already adopted or adoptable to this culture (which likely means less of those who refuse to give up the hejab) and less of refugees. Also keep the number more reasonable at around 150 to 200,000 annually not to absorb more than we can handle. That said overall immigrants have higher education than Canadian born and many have either directly or indirectly created jobs and contributed to growth in this country economic-wise and/or population-wise. Canadian is about tolerance and acceptance and diversity. Those who oppose immigration based on skin color or race or looks are the ones who are going against the Canadian culture not those who simply wear a hejab.

Another important factor that those who oppose immigration are forgetting is that WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS either ourselves or our parents/grandparents or ancestors have immigrated to this country (unless you are a native) so what gives you the right to deprive other people of better lives when yourself or your family/ancestors came to this country to better your life???

[Argus]

No micheal we are not. we are foolish to allow such numbers of people in to this country especially people that do not share our values and morals.

Let's remember why our current immigration numbers are as high as they are. Immigration was raised from about 84,000 to 250,000 by Mulroney in order to improve the PC party's chances of getting ethnic votes.

However, given the ambiguity of the economic arguments, Ms McDougall carried the day by stressing the benefits to the Progressive Conservative Party from increased immigration, especially in urban areas such as Southern Ontario. Ms McDougall's own riding of St. Paul's in downtown Toronto is extremely sensitive to immigration issues, and the political aspect of the issue is underlined by the fact that the minister's principal policy adviser on immigration is her chief of staff, Ruth Archibald, who used to be a full-time Tory organizer. Creating new potential links to the Conservative Party echoes a theme taken up at the last national Conservative convention by the minister responsible for multiculturalism, Gerry Weiner. He talked about ways the Tories could try to make inroads among ethnic-minority voters, who have long been considered partial to the Liberals.

http://www.immigrationwatchcanada.org/1990/10/24/mcdougall-wins-battle-to-increase-immigration/

[Argus]

Everything in your post is IYO, not IMO.

On the other hand, you don't care about Canada or its culture one bit. You've said as much. If we could bring over a hundred million immigrants you'd be all for it.

[Argus]

Why aren't the leaders arguing about immigration? It should be in the top ten most important topics.

Because they want ethnic votes. And in the case of the Tories, they not only want ethnic votes but are terrified of saying ANYTHING that could possibly be construed as anti-immigrant or anti ethnic or racist or whatever. So they won't say anything bad about immigration any more than they'll say anything bad about official bilingualism.

[Argus]

Immigration has been positive to Canada.

Based on what evidence or information?

One must remember that no one ever sat down and analyzed Canada's actual needs, nor set forth any goal posts to reach, nor ever measured whether we had reached them.

If by 'mostly positive' you mean it's increased the population here, then okay. It's created a lot of jobs? But it's created a lot of workers for those jobs. More economic activity? So? A bigger pie isn't any better at feeding you if you have more people eating it.

That said overall immigrants have higher education than Canadian born

I keep hearing this, and I keep running into foreigners with university degrees driving cabs and working as security guards.

We have Canadian born university grads working as barristas and servers. What do you think happens to a foreigner who speaks very fractured English and has no contacts when he arrives with his degree from an unknown university?

Another important factor that those who oppose immigration are forgetting is that WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS

This is a sorry old cliche'. Sorry. First, let's remember that when we came here, we overwhelmed and destroyed the local native culture. Is that something we think we should allow to happen to us? Second, most of the immigration history of this country consists of British coming here, to a British colony. There weren't exactly cultural issues involved. Also, when immigrants came here, they either made it on their own, or they went home. It's not spoken of much, but a substantial number failed and returned home. Now they remain here and we pay their way.

The days when anyone could come here, and through hard work, succeed, are largely gone. You didn't need to speak much English when you arrived long ago. You came to work on farms, or cutting trees, or on fishing boats. In the post WW2 period, when a lot of non English Europeans arrived, most of them, without very good English, could still find work in the trades, and other not very complicated jobs. Today, without an excellent command of the language, and a recognized skillset, you're largely going to be on low income wages the rest of your life. That means that, given our progressive tax system, you're not going to be paying taxes to pay for all the services like health care and education you consume.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Argus, on 12 Aug 2015 - 7:22 PM, said:

Based on what evidence or information?

Argus, I have known many university professors who taught thousands of students to work their way up to graduation to become future engineers and doctors in this country to build and cure citizens. I know of many researchers and doctors and nurses who came to this country who joined workforce soon after arrival and became tax payers. I know of many came as students and stayed on and later joined workforce and became tax payers for decades and positive contributors to this country. Why you concentrate only on a minority unsuccessful ones (or not as successful) who are doctors and for the first few years they have to drive taxis. Btw, taxi drivers are paying taxes too which pays for Canadian healthcare and else.

Argus, Based on many released statistics by government agency immigrants have higher education than Canadian born so this is my evidence not to mention that I have met lots of immigrants in my life.

Argus, Based on what you say it was okay then for your ancestors to come here since they were of English origin but now that some may come from non-English culture or because they wear hejab and look different then they must not have the rights to be here or enjoy equal rights right?

Next time you walk on street try to look at the good rather than evil. See the beauty of diverse faces (especially females ones lol) and next time you go to a Chinese, Mexican, Spanish, Greek, Lebanese restaurants, praise the lord for this multicultural country to have such diverse food in this country and praise the mix marriages and the beautiful children who come out of these mixed marriages. Look at the GOOD rather than the EVIL.

especially people that do not share our values and morals.

Many immigrants HAVE MORALS AND VALUES of their own too so who tells you or why you think that your values and morals is any higher or better than those who are born in other countries?? Is your claim based on the rate of rape/sexual assaults or pornography, adultery, drug use and violent crimes?

Edited August 13, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Hudson Jones]

I was going to respond to Argus, but what's the point?

His last two paragaphs in post #23 is all opinion based on Argus' feelings. There is absolutely no evidence, statistics or anything concrete to back up his feelings.

The following from Statistics Canada is an important indicator of how immigrants, and more specifically, the immigrant's children do when they arrive in Canada - Note that these are immigrants who do not speak English or French at home:

Among 1990s immigrants, 310,000 were children between the ages of 5 and 16. For many of these children, the first language learned and used at home was neither English nor French. The language skills of children of immigrant parents just entering the school system were weaker than those of Canadian-born parents, but the longer the children lived in Canada , the smaller the gap in performance became, until it disappeared. In fact, in later years, the academic performance of many of these students surpassed that of their Canadian-born counterparts.

We need immigrants to fill the jobs that the baby boomers are leaving behind. Despite immigration, we're still coming short in filling the positions left behind by the retiring baby boomers. This is another non-emotional point, backed by Statistics Canada:

Fewer young people about to enter the labour force than those about to leave it

In 2011, census data showed for the first time that there were more people in the age group where people typically leave the labour force (55 to 64), than in the age group where people typically enter it (15 to 24).

The Argus' and the PIK's can whine all they want about immigration, but in reality, we NEED immigration. This is according to the HARPER government - This is from 2011:

Ottawa starting to tackle rapidly aging workforce with renewed urgency

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and the highest levels of the public service are immersed in a flurry of closed-door talks aimed at tackling the rising costs of health care and retirement benefits in the face of a shrinking number of working-age taxpayers available to foot the bill.

Internal government documents obtained by The Globe and Mail show Canada’s aging population is no longer a problem on the horizon, but rather one that will impact the federal government this year. It's a challenge Ottawa is now discussing more openly and with added urgency.