Big Guy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 From the legal aspect, if there was a class action suit against the church and the church settled out of court to avoid a trial then it took both parties to "settle". If there was a settlement then there should be no additional claims - is that not correct? Those abused were entitled to compensation and have received it - have they not? What more do they want? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 I don't believe the Jews were subjected to 6 generations of genocide, now were they?And yet they still got their county back. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
jacee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 From the legal aspect, if there was a class action suit against the church and the church settled out of court to avoid a trial then it took both parties to "settle". If there was a settlement then there should be no additional claims - is that not correct? Those abused were entitled to compensation and have received it - have they not? What more do they want? Ya I think, like eyeball says, they want their country back. . Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Ya I think, like eyeball says, they want their country back. . Well, like I said, I was born here. This is just as much my country. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Well, like I said, I was born here. This is just as much my country. So were they, and they were here first. So its just as much theirs. Quote
Scott Mayers Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Posted June 6, 2015 To the TRC over a five year period, yes. You don't know that? Those were confidential reports to the IAP. They were done to receive compensation and likely do contain names of perps for verification. The churches lobbied hard to keep the perps names secret. You don't know much about the process at all, do you? It is. You are in no position to make that judgement as you have no clue about the process. The government and the churches were sued in a large class action suit. They settled out of court to avoid a trial. These processes and compensation are part of the settlement. As for the churches protecting the names of the perps ... I agree. Why don't you ask them?! I got the impression you personally heard the testimonies. But how is any testimony hold weight unless they are agreeing to one particular incident involving the exact same people, etc.? Claiming that these cases were all universally held in secret to protect people doesn't hold up as sufficient reason for the public to simply take BLIND FAITH in these claims. Nor should they. It's worse than Salem-witch-trial behaviors since the jury (the people) are NOT privileged to the evidences. Do you really think that you are being a fair person to presume it alright for us to transfer our faith into testimonials of various people with highly biased rationales to benefit in some ways or others? I demand the evidence. And I'm getting tired of our present Canadian momentum towards irrational appeals to emotional claims without fair justice. (The right of formal charges against accused, due processes, a trial prior to presuming guilt, etc.) You don't just think, "wow, that sounds horrible....therefore it is true that the accused is guilty and doesn't even deserve the fairness he/she didn't give to his/her victims." If these cases are closed to the public, we as a society should NOT have any onus to providing any compassion or compensation to it. Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 So were they, and they were here first. So its just as much theirs. Were aboriginal people born after me here before me? I'm of no other country. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Were aboriginal people born after me here before me? I'm of no other country. Im sure you could puzzle the answer to that question all by yourself. But here is something else you should ponder, the aboriginal people who bore the people who came after you, were here before you. Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Im sure you could puzzle the answer to that question all by yourself. But here is something else you should ponder, the aboriginal people who bore the people who came after you, were here before you. Is that somehow important in determining value as people? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Is that somehow important in determining value as people? Nope. Value as people is quite arbitrary. It does determine certain rights. Especially when you dig into the dishonoured treaties made with those people. Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Nope. Value as people is quite arbitrary. It does determine certain rights. Though I understand the legal ramifications, probably better than you, does that make sense? When you truly consider it, does it make sense? I have no other country. I'm as Canadian as anyone of any other 'race'. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Though I understand the legal ramifications, probably better than you, does that make sense? When you truly consider it, does it make sense? I have no other country. I'm as Canadian as anyone of any other 'race'. Yeah, nobody's doubting that. Any point here.... Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Yeah, nobody's doubting that. Any point here.... That these old arguments are kind of ridiculous. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 That these old arguments are kind of ridiculous. Perhaps to you because you haven't had any of your rights taken away because of your ethnicity. Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Perhaps to you because you haven't had any of your rights taken away because of your ethnicity. And neither have most aboriginal people alive today (being that aboriginals have a young population). I live this stuff every day. You have no idea what aboriginal life on reserve is actually like - how much that status quo that their leaders fight to keep is hurting them. Quote
Big Guy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 To jaycee - I commend you on your sensitivity and passion defending a position which reflects a minority opinion on this board - but I cannot agree with you. I do not believe in the divine right of kings or any privilege of birth. I do not believe that somebody deserves to be compensated for something done to their grandparents. I do not believe in affirmative action nor prioritization by culture or color or religion or whatever. I do not feel that I owe the aboriginals anything the same way as I don't owe Japanese Canadians for interment, Jews for the Holocaust, those million Tutsis who were murdered by the Hutu in Rwanda or those millions of people from Europe who ended up in Siberia complements of Stalin. I believe that this still is the land of opportunity for anyone and everyone who is prepared to work, save, invest and follow the law. The aboriginal has the same opportunity as any of the rest of us to succeed in our society. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 And neither have most aboriginal people alive today (being that aboriginals have a young population). I live this stuff every day. You have no idea what aboriginal life on reserve is actually like - how much that status quo that their leaders fight to keep is hurting them. First of all I don't live on a reserve but I have worked a number of times with people who do, so I do have an idea of life on some of them. Secondly, just as a for instance, government spending on FN education is about 30% less than it is for non native. The effects of yesterday are still being felt today Quote
drummindiver Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 That happened to many more people that weren't aboriginal. That's kind of been the point here - it was awful, just not genocide, and not even that unique. My own ancestors were a persecuted minority. No apology needed. As were mine. History. Let it go. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 ..... The aboriginal has the same opportunity as any of the rest of us to succeed in our society. I think not....note the operative phrase "in our society". There's your trouble..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
TimG Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Value as people is quite arbitrary. It does determine certain rights.Yep. Just like in South Africa where the pigment of one's skin determined what rights one had. Quote
Smallc Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 First of all I don't live on a reserve but I have worked a number of times with people who do, so I do have an idea of life on some of them. Secondly, just as a for instance, government spending on FN education is about 30% less than it is for non native. The effects of yesterday are still being felt today The education authority I work closely with will tell you it's not that simple. The fundin flows differently and the base funding doesn't tell the entire story. Quote
Argus Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Umm...I have white skin Self loathing. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Ya I think, like eyeball says, they want their country back. . They never had a country. WE have a country. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Self loathing. Perhaps for you. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 They never had a country. WE have a country. And can you just explain, briefly, the difference between THEY and WE... Quote
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