First female to pilot F-35

[Hal 9000]

Boudicca lead an army to.

You think a woman can get a job flying a F-35 through affirmative action?

We were talking about F1, now your trying to inject something that was never said, never even suggested.

[On Guard for Thee]

And imagine you just making up other peoples opinions for them, nah, not you, never. The problem is, some of us have just evolved past you, but you still think we are fighting the old fights, when we really just don't care what women do with themselves and the equality they have, no more than i care about what you do.

And you call that comment as demonstrating being evolved...

[Wilber]

We were talking about F1, now your trying to inject something that was never said, never even suggested.

You don't think the same rules apply to becoming a fighter pilot?

[-1=e^ipi]

I am so proud to tell my daughters of these accomplishments

Why are you proud of accomplishments that you didn't not have any involvement in? Being proud of your own accomplishments or the accomplishments of the children you raise is one thing. Being proud of the accomplishments of someone completely unrelated to you who you never met makes zero sense to me.

I don't want to introduce the male individuals who try to diminish the female accomplishments.

Yes. You should do your best to protect your children from dissenting opinion. Because if they were to be introduced to dissenting opinion, there is the chance that they might make the wrong conclusion! This is why we need feminist safe spaces, biased media like BBC and CBC that filter out all the incorrect opinion and evidence, and have our schools teach the correct social justice narrative so that children are raised up to not think incorrect thoughts. *sarcasm*

Do you acknowledge the milestones for Black Americans ?

You haven't defined 'milestones'.

What's the difference between that and acknowledging a gender breakthrough ?

If the pilot were black, I wouldn't care either. Does that answer your question?

So what, men still controlled the money and called the shots. Married women couldn't own property, as soon as they married, any property they owned became their husbands. They couldn't hold public office or get custody of her own children.

Look, all I am saying is that certain versions of history are distorted and overly simplistic. If you look at the details, things are more complicated and nuanced.

They couldn't get custody of her own children.

And for the past few decades the custody issue has been completely reversed and is a major issues that MRAs want to see addressed. Equality with child custody hasn't been achieved, and I see little desire by mainstream feminists to want to achieve gender equity in this area. Also, as an individual that grew up in some very extreme circumstances, the biased child custody laws have greatly affected me in negative ways.

Until a year ago, a woman couldn't even be monarch unless there were no male heirs.

Existence of monarchy = evidence that society discriminates against women? What?

I have a better idea. Let's abolish the monarchy and become a republic.

Sure, they might have been refused a particular job because of affirmative action

Discrimination issues go well beyond affirmative action, especially when it comes to hiring people. It's politically fashionable to discriminate against white males when making hiring decisions because it helps reduce 'social injustice' and is the 'progressive' thing to do. If you, WestCoastRunner, or Michael Hardner were in a position about making a decision to hire someone for a job, and you had two candidates, myself and someone slightly less qualified but happened to be female, then my guess is that you would all be very tempted to hire the female because it would be the 'socially just' and 'progressive' thing to do. And if you did hire the slightly less qualified female, you guys would then give yourselves a pat on the back congratulating yourselves on making the 'progressive' and morally correct decision.

And there are statistics to back this up. Male unemployment is much higher than female unemployment. Unmarried female millennials outearn unmarried male millennials in urban areas in UK, Canada & US (why do you think this occurs in urban areas?... perhaps it is urban areas are more 'progressive' and therefore it is more politically fashionable to discriminate against males). If you look at some recent studies such as Oereopoulos 2011 you will see that there is clear discrimination in places such as Toronto against resumes with male names (and this effect is statistically significant and larger than the effect of having a foreign name). http://oreopoulos.faculty.economics.utoronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Why-Do-Skilled-Immigrants-Struggle-in-the-Labor-Market.pdf

But don't worry, I'm doing my part helping to reduce all of the wage gaps and therefore increase social justice. For much of 2013, I was making a maximal contribution to reducing all of these gaps.

They have no clue what real discrimination is. I'm a white male about as WASP as you can get and I say balls.

1. I'm not a WASP.

2. You having the perception that you have not observed discrimination does not mean that it does not exist. Society is very inhomogeneous and what you experience will vary depending on where you live, how old you are, etc. A female in a burka claiming that Islamic societies like Saudi Arabia do not discriminate against women does not mean that no discrimination against females in these societies exists.

[poochy]

And you call that comment as demonstrating being evolved...

Im sorry that you are incapable of joining us in the present where women can do anything men can without being patronized for every little thing they 'accomplish', this is your failing and one you should try to work on. Keep fighting those old battles though, even if you have to make up your opponents argument for them, omg, i just realized i never told my wife how proud i am of what she has accomplished for her gender by doing so much math at work! Did you know that women can be good at math?

Edited May 11, 2015 by poochy

[Big Guy]

This reminds me that every once in a while I read the world's oldest person has died. But the oldest in the world could (and probably does) die every day.

[On Guard for Thee]

Im sorry that you are incapable of joining us in the present where women can do anything men can without being patronized for every little thing they 'accomplish', this is your failing and one you should try to work on. Keep fighting those old battles though, even if you have to make up your opponents argument for them.

I might just be way ahead of you. Twas a long time ago I embraced gender equality.

[-1=e^ipi]

It gets tiring to constantly defend women's rights against so many men.

Except no one is attacking women's rights. Name 1 women's right that is being attacked in this thread. The right to be praised by everyone for an achievement more than you would if you were male and did the exact same achievement?

Why on earth do I bother trying to bring women's accomplishments and issues to this forum. It's simply ridiculous the bs I put up with. I'm done with this forum.

You could try going to a feminist safe space where you are protected from evil dissenting opinion. Atheism+ and tumblr are good options. It's too bad you can't do what Anita Sarkeesian did several years back and disable comments so that you don't have to read dissenting opinion. Your ideology can't survive in a free market place of ideas, so your best bet is hide from areas where people can express a dissenting opinion.

[Hal 9000]

Except no one is attacking women's rights. Name 1 women's right that is being attacked in this thread. The right to be praised by everyone for an achievement more than you would if you were male and did the exact same achievement?

You could try going to a feminist safe space where you are protected from evil dissenting opinion. Atheism+ and tumblr are good options. It's too bad you can't do what Anita Sarkeesian did several years back and disable comments so that you don't have to read dissenting opinion. Your ideology can't survive in a free market place of ideas, so your best bet is hide from areas where people can express a dissenting opinion.

I think WCR really is done this time.

[Wilber]

1. I'm not a WASP.

2. You having the perception that you have not observed discrimination does not mean that it does not exist. Society is very inhomogeneous and what you experience will vary depending on where you live, how old you are, etc. A female in a burka claiming that Islamic societies like Saudi Arabia do not discriminate against women does not mean that no discrimination against females in these societies exists.

I don't care what you are and if I was running my own business I couldn't afford not to hire the most qualified person. You are right, claiming there is not discrimination doesn't make it a fact. You should have read all of your own link.

Notable exceptions in Europe were France, where women could not vote until 1944, Greece (1952), and Switzerland (1971 in federal elections and 1990 in all cantonal elections). It is worth noting that countries that took a long time to adopt women's suffrage were often actually pioneers in granting universal male suffrage."

Why do you think that was?

[Michael Hardner]

But go ahead, take 'correct' side of the argument even if there is absolutely no need for it.

You're really just overthinking this. Toasting a milestone is a pretty common thing.

People are arguing all over the map on this thread to tell us that we shouldn't do that. Well, if you don't want to then don't I guess...

[-1=e^ipi]

This is a typical tactic of that poster, he will make up an argument for you and then condemn you for it, i think there is a word for that sort of arguing.

I think you are looking for strawman argument.

It's like to some on this forum, you're not allowed to have an opinion on things, unless it's the 'right' opinion.

Yes, this is the 'progressive' way. Be it gender issues, climate change, global warming, islamism, or whatever. And it seems to be getting more intolerant every day. At least some people such as Bill Maher are starting to realize how ridiculous things are becoming.

[Michael Hardner]

It's like to some on this forum, you're not allowed to have an opinion on things, unless it's the 'right' opinion.

Right. Like for somebody to acknowledge a milestone, they're called all sorts of crazy things, such as 'manipulated' and so on. I think people should just breathe and enjoy life a little.

[poochy]

Right. Like for somebody to acknowledge a milestone, they're called all sorts of crazy things, such as 'manipulated' and so on. I think people should just breathe and enjoy life a little.

Of course if you ignored the poster who made the op you might be right, but we shouldn't, and you aren't.

Edited May 11, 2015 by poochy

[Michael Hardner]

You haven't defined 'milestones'.

I don't have a definition for such a thing. The media brought this to us and I say... "sure, that seems like a thing. Great to hear."

If the pilot were black, I wouldn't care either. Does that answer your question?

Not really. What *would* you care about, I guess, is my question.

[poochy]

I might just be way ahead of you. Twas a long time ago I embraced gender equality.

Of course you were, i mean, you must be better than the rest of us, where would your self image come from if you couldn't make up peoples opinions and then look down at them for them.

[-1=e^ipi]

Did you know that women can be good at math?

Wow really! I never knew. Thank you for enlightening me. And thank WestCoastRunner for this thread. I never knew that women could fly planes. But apparently they can! *sarcasm*

I don't care what you are and if I was running my own business I couldn't afford not to hire the most qualified person.

Now what if you were a worker for the government and you didn't have to care about profit margins? Then what choice would you make?

Why do you think that was?

Because society at that time was very patriarchal, sexist and didn't value women as much as men.

[-1=e^ipi]

The media brought this to us and I say... "sure, that seems like a thing. Great to hear."\

The mainstream media is a propaganda machine that has been infiltrated by the social justice warriors. Just because the media tries to sell you a narrative, doesn't mean you should buy it. The gender/sex of the pilot should be irrelevant.

Not really. What *would* you care about, I guess, is my question.

I care about lots of things. Your question is too general to give an answer.

Edited May 11, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[Michael Hardner]

The mainstream media is a propaganda machine that has been infiltrated by the social justice warriors.

Ah... ok then. Conspiracy then. Check.

I care about lots of things. Your question is too general to give an answer.

You equated what was perceived as a milestone by the popular press to some silly non-event. I asked you what oppressed groups you ... I don't know .... relate to. I'm trying to find out what you think the criteria should be for marking these things but as usual you don't want to be pinned down to anything at all I guess.

So, I'll just say I'm ok with the mainstream press being a proxy for popular appetites with regards to notable social landmarks. I don't know what your position is, except that you don't agree with mine.

Does that wrap it up with a nice bow ?

[On Guard for Thee]

Of course you were, i mean, you must be better than the rest of us, where would your self image come from if you couldn't make up peoples opinions and then look down at them for them.

Oh woe is me for having disagreed with you. Hint...I dont have to make up your opinions for me to do that. The ones you proffer provide that opportunity.

[-1=e^ipi]

Ah... ok then. Conspiracy then. Check.

It's not conspiracy. The BBC has actually achieved Poe's law (see other thread). Look at the portrayal of #gamergate by the media. Look at how the CBC refuses to show the Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

I asked you what oppressed groups you ... I don't know .... relate to.

Relate to? You mean belong to? Well I'm neuroatypical. I'm asexual, so am a sexual minority. I'm not cisgendered as explained in the other thread. Does that answer your question?

How are you measuring oppression to determine what groups count as oppressed?

Edited May 11, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[Michael Hardner]

Does that answer your question?

How are you measuring oppression to determine what groups count as oppressed?

I just wanted to know whether/what social milestones you noted, but I'm going to stop asking now.

[-1=e^ipi]

I just wanted to know whether/what social milestones you noted, but I'm going to stop asking now.

But you haven't defined milestones and I'm not sure what you mean by 'noted'.

[Smallc]

But you haven't defined milestones and I'm not sure what you mean by 'noted'.

That's because he can't. It's all about having the 'right' opinion.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think the words are complicated - note, milestone. You can define them any way you like.