Are Ontario teachers really going to Strike?

Boges · April 17, 2015

If these people Strike when the Premiere is Kathleen Wynne, they will never be happy with any administration.

http://www.640toronto.com/2015/04/17/etfo-pushes-for-no-board-report-inching-closer-to-strike/

The Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario is requesting a “no board report” pushing them closer and closer to a complete strike.

In a release issued by ETFO they make assurances that they will continue bargaining with the government and the Ontario Public School Boards Association but the release does say, “They appear intent on eroding our existing rights and taking us back to the bad old Mike Harris days.”

Seven school boards could be affected by strike action starting with the Durham District School Board on Monday.

Chair of the Durham board promises they are working with the provincial government to transit current marks to university and colleges in case a strike does happen.

http://www.cp24.com/news/union-representing-ontario-high-school-teachers-walks-away-from-negotiations-1.2328299

The union representing Ontario's public high school teachers says it has suspended labour negotiations with the Ontario Public School Boards Association and the government management team.

In a memo sent out Tuesday, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation said they have reached an “impasse” after 14 days at the central bargaining table and are temporarily walking away from negotiations to give the other side an opportunity to “reconsider their current bargaining positions.”

“Our negotiating team will remain ready to return to the table if and when OPSBA and the Government are ready to enter into serious discussions,” the memo said.

I have yet to read specifics on what exactly these teachers want and what the province is offering. I imagine they don't want the public to know what type of trivial frill that a good majority of the public doesn't get that they're willing to screw up the school year over.

To evoke the name Mike Harris when Kathleen Wynne is in power is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

Going on Strike a few weeks before the end of the school year is perhaps the most offensive thing. But of course, they're doing it for the children. :rolleyes:

Hydraboss · April 17, 2015

Don't worry, they'll demand class size reductions, more staff, all that "for the children" stuff - and then they'll get a raise in pay and go back to work happy.

But of course, they're doing it for the children as you say.

socialist · April 18, 2015

Similar to my brothers and sisters in BC, we have to fight for learners in this province. Would you be in favour of the government increasing class sizes to the degree that your child is now getting hurt because there isn't enough supervision? Or your child's grades suffer because the teacher just doesn't have the same amount of time to spend with each student as once was possible? Or the teacher says that s/he can't meet with you after school hours since that is outside his/her working day? Spend some time in a public school. Choose a kindergarten classroom where there are 4 or more children with high behavioural needs that have to be watched closely so they don't take off or hurt someone, three or more that are still not 100% toilet trained and need frequent reminders and 3 that don't speak English. Now imagine 10% more children in that classroom and possibly fewer adults to support the classroom and keep everyone safe and learning. Now imagine your child in that classroom and tell teachers they have no right to strike.

Michael Hardner · April 18, 2015

I have yet to read specifics on what exactly these teachers want and what the province is offering. I imagine they don't want the public to know what type of trivial frill that a good majority of the public doesn't get that they're willing to screw up the school year over.

Of course this strike is going to evoke the same tired arguments about teachers, unions, education, that we've heard for decades. I don't think there will be anything new to come out of those discussions but perhaps this: those of us who have argued those things to death already could perhaps consider the meta-point you have made here: "I have yet to read specifics"

It took me FOUR (!) articles before I could find a single mention of what the issue might be. As such, only this editorial piece on the NP indicates that it's about a wage freeze:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/kelly-mcparland-faced-with-debt-hobbled-government-ontario-teachers-unions-are-reduced-to-bluster

Maybe left and right can agree that the situation with reporting is unacceptable.

Ash74 · April 18, 2015

Similar to my brothers and sisters in BC, we have to fight for learners in this province. Would you be in favour of the government increasing class sizes to the degree that your child is now getting hurt because there isn't enough supervision? Or your child's grades suffer because the teacher just doesn't have the same amount of time to spend with each student as once was possible? Or the teacher says that s/he can't meet with you after school hours since that is outside his/her working day? Spend some time in a public school. Choose a kindergarten classroom where there are 4 or more children with high behavioural needs that have to be watched closely so they don't take off or hurt someone, three or more that are still not 100% toilet trained and need frequent reminders and 3 that don't speak English. Now imagine 10% more children in that classroom and possibly fewer adults to support the classroom and keep everyone safe and learning. Now imagine your child in that classroom and tell teachers they have no right to strike.

This strike has nothing to do with class sizes. It is all about pay.

Your argument does not match what the teachers gestapo is preaching

Topaz · April 18, 2015

I can see more and more parents putting their kids in private schools and then, the public school board will be laying off teachers. Why doesn't the teachers say, we will keep what we have and go two years longer on our contracts and wait for the next contract to strike, if we have too.

Boges · April 18, 2015

I can see more and more parents putting their kids in private schools and then, the public school board will be laying off teachers. Why doesn't the teachers say, we will keep what we have and go two years longer on our contracts and wait for the next contract to strike, if we have too.

Because that would be logical.

Bob Macadoo · April 18, 2015

I can see more and more parents putting their kids in private schools and then, the public school board will be laying off teachers. Why doesn't the teachers say, we will keep what we have and go two years longer on our contracts and wait for the next contract to strike, if we have too.

It won't matter how many freezes they lay low for.......everytime the same people will say they are overpaid......they've been on a wage freeze and no one has recognized that.

socialist · April 18, 2015

I can see more and more parents putting their kids in private schools and then, the public school board will be laying off teachers. Why doesn't the teachers say, we will keep what we have and go two years longer on our contracts and wait for the next contract to strike, if we have too.

Lots of rural areas don't have private schools in the vicinity. Private schools often inflate marks to please parents who pay a lot of money for artificial marks. Many think private schools are better, but they are not.

Ash74 · April 18, 2015

It won't matter how many freezes they lay low for.......everytime the same people will say they are overpaid......they've been on a wage freeze and no one has recognized that.

Wynne needs to look strong in this. If She gives in than all the other unions will be lined up looking to cash in.

socialist · April 18, 2015

Wynne needs to look strong in this. If She gives in than all the other unions will be lined up looking to cash in.

Do you want to go back to working 7 days a week under terrible conditions for $5/hour? Didn't think so. Maybe you should be thankful for what unions have accomplished for the lower and middle classes. But I guess you support the 1%.

Ash74 · April 19, 2015

Do you want to go back to working 7 days a week under terrible conditions for $5/hour? Didn't think so. Maybe you should be thankful for what unions have accomplished for the lower and middle classes. But I guess you support the 1%.

According to Justin Trudeau I already am part of the 1%. I disagree and am far from rich and do not make as much as a senior teacher. Nor am I any longer a union member. I was a elected union steward 6 times and witnessed first hand the protection of the lazy and the unfair treatment of workers with talent. Not too mention the disregard for the truth when it suited the union. The fight was for more workers not the wages or hours of the members. this is where I saw the business model that was being used for the unions gain. (Least they were not embezzling it. Hello OPPA)

The unions are just like any other business. They need good press and paying customers. The teachers are not asking for a smaller class size or complaining because they have too many hours. The complaint is wages and the unions know that they cannot sell this to the public.

jacee · April 19, 2015

Dp

Edited April 19, 2015 by jacee

jacee · April 19, 2015

It took me FOUR (!) articles before I could find a single mention of what the issue might be. As such, only this editorial piece on the NP indicates that it's about a wage freeze:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/kelly-mcparland-faced-with-debt-hobbled-government-ontario-teachers-unions-are-reduced-to-bluster

Maybe left and right can agree that the situation with reporting is unacceptable.

I found more.

There is always a wage issue in negotiations but that isn't mentioned here:

/education-funding-still-won-t-fully-support-issues-like-special-education-full-day-kindergarten

(ETFO) is concerned [about] longstanding structural funding issues ...

... "While Ontario has embraced an integrated model for special education, funding to school boards is not providing the supports that teachers require to meet the needs of all students," said ETFO President Sam Hammond. "There are not enough educational assistants and class sizes aren't adjusted ...

... we are concerned that Kindergarten class sizes are too large and that the grants don't provide designated early childhood educators with sufficient planning time with teachers.

... "The government's incentive funding to consolidate schools would have a negative effect of driving elementary schools and students into high school settings.

... ETFO recommended areas to achieve savings including changing EQAO to random sample checks ...

Edited April 19, 2015 by jacee

Ash74 · April 19, 2015

I found more.

There is always a wage issue in negotiations but that isn't mentioned here:

/education-funding-still-won-t-fully-support-issues-like-special-education-full-day-kindergarten

(ETFO) is concerned [about] longstanding structural funding issues ...

... "While Ontario has embraced an integrated model for special education, funding to school boards is not providing the supports that teachers require to meet the needs of all students," said ETFO President Sam Hammond. "There are not enough educational assistants and class sizes aren't adjusted ...

... we are concerned that Kindergarten class sizes are too large and that the grants don't provide designated early childhood educators with sufficient planning time with teachers.

... "The government's incentive funding to consolidate schools would have a negative effect of driving elementary schools and students into high school settings.

... ETFO recommended areas to achieve savings including changing EQAO to random sample checks ...

Which will all be forgiven if the teachers are given raises.

jacee · April 19, 2015

ETFO - teachers via their union dues - also fund educational program materials and programs:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1505457/addressing-the-legacy-of-racism-against-aboriginal-people-an-imperative-for-educators-government

.

MiddleClassCentrist · April 19, 2015

The Ontario Public Schoool Boards Association (ADMIN) has been the sticking point with OSSTF. Financial issues haven't even really been addressed.

They are demanding teachers take on increased responsibilities, increased time required at school, increased supervision before and after school, mandatory extra curriculars, more forced professional development... and on top of all that they want to take away professional freedom of teachers to create assignments, evaluations and assessments as well as remove class size caps.

Remember, the Ontario Teachers's were creamed last round with forced legislation. They have had a 3 year wage freeze and lost many benefits. They can no longer bank sick days. They weren't even allowed to negotiate.

It's disheartening to see so many people hate on one of the most important professions to sustaining a modern society, without even having all of the facts. I hope you people at least recognize that your beligerent ignorance will be witnessed by teachers who will likely say "Why the F--- am I even doing all this extra stuff I don't have to for people's kids and grandkids who think I am scum."

If I was a teacher witnessing all of the garbage on social media, I'd stop running a robotics club or coaching a team for sure because why should I? People think I'm scum either way.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist

Hydraboss · April 19, 2015

They are demanding teachers ...., more forced professional development... .

This is hilarious. I watched for several years while my brother and sister in-laws (both teachers with the local board) dropped their kids off with my wife, went and signed in at the "Professional Development" seminars in the morning, and then were back in 20 minutes to grab their kids and disappear back home (and golfing in the case of the BIL). PD days my ass. "Forced professional development"?? You meant to say "forced days off with pay".

It's disheartening to see so many people hate on one of the most important professions to sustaining a modern society, without even having all of the facts. I hope you people at least recognize that your beligerent ignorance will be witnessed by teachers who will likely say "Why the F--- am I even doing all this extra stuff I don't have to for people's kids and grandkids who think I am scum."

If I was a teacher witnessing all of the garbage on social media, I'd stop running a robotics club or coaching a team for sure because why should I? People think I'm scum either way.

Teachers ARE scum (most, not all). They have certainly earned this reputation through their actions (and inactions). "Beligerent ignorance"?? Perhaps for those people that form their opinions without knowing first hand how teachers actually operate, but for those of us who are intimately familiar with their tactics (and how the individual schools manage their budgets), the best thing that could happen would be for these lazy, self righteous, money grubbing forms of life to throw in the towel and go do something more in line with their mindsets. Like bag men for the local protection racketeers.

edit - In case you didn't guess, I'm not a fan of teachers. Just saying.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Hydraboss

MiddleClassCentrist · April 19, 2015

This is hilarious. I watched for several years while my brother and sister in-laws (both teachers with the local board) dropped their kids off with my wife, went and signed in at the "Professional Development" seminars in the morning, and then were back in 20 minutes to grab their kids and disappear back home (and golfing in the case of the BIL). PD days my ass. "Forced professional development"?? You meant to say "forced days off with pay".

That isn't what happens on PD. You get forced to sit through and participate in useless garbage that the ministry or board has come up with. It's not a vacation... or my wife wouldn't hate it so much.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist

Hydraboss · April 19, 2015

MCC, maybe someone should tell that to the principal, "assistant" principals (no such thing as Vice Principals anymore), and assorted teachers that go to the local Irish pub in town to have a couple of pints on "Professional Development" days. I'll give them this: they certainly look sheepish when you walk over and say hi.

PD days somehow mysteriously always end up on a Friday and/or Monday of a long weekend......hmmmmm.....must be the only times they can book really high quality PD speakers.

Bob Macadoo · April 19, 2015

The unions are just like any other business. They need good press and paying customers. The teachers are not asking for a smaller class size or complaining because they have too many hours. The complaint is wages and the unions know that they cannot sell this to the public.

I can agree with this statement.....they are. They behave like any business.....they aren't treated in the media like any other business though. Good and bad.

socialist · April 19, 2015

This is hilarious. I watched for several years while my brother and sister in-laws (both teachers with the local board) dropped their kids off with my wife, went and signed in at the "Professional Development" seminars in the morning, and then were back in 20 minutes to grab their kids and disappear back home (and golfing in the case of the BIL). PD days my ass. "Forced professional development"?? You meant to say "forced days off with pay".

Teachers ARE scum (most, not all). They have certainly earned this reputation through their actions (and inactions). "Beligerent ignorance"?? Perhaps for those people that form their opinions without knowing first hand how teachers actually operate, but for those of us who are intimately familiar with their tactics (and how the individual schools manage their budgets), the best thing that could happen would be for these lazy, self righteous, money grubbing forms of life to throw in the towel and go do something more in line with their mindsets. Like bag men for the local protection racketeers.

edit - In case you didn't guess, I'm not a fan of teachers. Just saying.

Too bad you can't open your mind and realize that teachers care about all kids. Maybe this will help you see the light. http://www.smh.com.au/world/i-wish-my-teacher-knew-teachers-third-grade-assignment-goes-viral-online-20150419-1mo7gw.html?eid=socialn%3Afac-13omn1676-edtrl-other%3Annn-17%2F02%2F2014-edtrs_socialshare-all-nnn-nnn-vars-o

Hydraboss · April 19, 2015

And that has what, exactly, to do with teachers "pd days" where they do anything except "professional development" and a strike? Nothing, that's what. A once-noble profession has been destroyed by self-serving individuals.

Socialist, it's too bad you're not really a teacher. Your little act on this board is pathetic.

socialist · April 19, 2015

And that has what, exactly, to do with teachers "pd days" where they do anything except "professional development" and a strike? Nothing, that's what. A once-noble profession has been destroyed by self-serving individuals.

Socialist, it's too bad you're not really a teacher. Your little act on this board is pathetic.

Anyone dumb enough to believe teachers go to an Irish pub or go golfing on ProD days is delusional. Fairy tales are entertaining.

Hydraboss · April 19, 2015

Okay then. I must have been "delusioning".

Keep trying to convince people that teachers and the boards only schedule pd days on Fridays and Mondays so they don't disturb classes. See if that gets any traction.

Your "profession" (let's just keep the illusion going shall we?) has turned into a joke. And, unfortunately, the good teachers along with it.