Canada vs Duffy vs PMO

[socialist]

For somebody complaining about people making stuff up, you too do your share.

It was widely reported two years ago that Harb mortgaged properties to borrow $230,000 from Brian Karam to cover his repayment and legal fees. The transaction was reported to the Senate, not covered up.

...

You miss the point utterly, and completely.

Did you not hear when Wright testified under oath that he has never been sure, that in fact he still is not sure that Duffy's housing expense claims were illegitimate. Wright did know though that Duffy was greedy in abundance and that is what Wright based his decisions on.

You are sounding more and more like a robot who does not deal with humans on a daily basis. Have you never been in a situation where the issues are complicated, where loyalty plays an important role and where crystal balls are not available.

In your robotic world, crystal balls are always telling you what comes next. Life is that easy for you, right? Right.

[socialist]

It's the PM who said he fired Wright.

Harper has never, ever said he fired Wright. The media says Harper has said it, but Harper has actually never ever said it.

You should learn to distinguish about what is paraphrased in an article, and what is directly quoted as to what the PM actually said.

I will challenge you to find me one shred of evidence in which you can find a direct quote in which the PM says he 'fired' Wright. You will not be able to find one because there is none. Period.

[socialist]

For somebody complaining about people making stuff up, you too do your share.

It was widely reported two years ago that Harb mortgaged properties to borrow $230,000 from Brian Karam to cover his repayment and legal fees. The transaction was reported to the Senate, not covered up.

...

These are the facts:

PM Harper WAS fully aware, after the media had reported on it, that Duffy had

claimed expenses he had not actually incurred. PM Harper did not know

and neither did anyone else, including Wright (we still do NOT know

now) if Duffy could claim those housing expenses under the rules, as

vague as those rules are. But because some vague rules say that the

expenses COULD be claimed does not mean they necessarily SHOULD be

claimed. All that PM Harper could go on is to state unequivocally

that claiming expenses which were not incurred is wrong and therefore

he told Duffy that he had to pay back that greed.

Fact: the PM then instructed Wright to deal with the issue.

Fact: Prime Ministers, any PM, does not manage his own office in a

micro style. They cannot because other duties and much bigger files

keep any PM fully occupied, and therefore a CoS is hired to micro

manage the PMO.

Fact:Wright knew that Harper wanted Duffy to pay back those

expenses which were not actually incurred. Wright had conversations

with the PM on the effect that would have on other potential expenses

claimed by senators, etc.

Fact: Wright has always said, and testified under oath, that he

never told the PM about his personal payment to help Duffy AND the

government out of a bind.

Fact: the audit was never tempered with. An attempt is not the

same as an actual interference of an audit.

Fact: the sponsorship program was a systematic program running for

years. During those years, Paul Martin was finance minister and was

full aware of the budget item called 'sponsorship program'

Fact: A systematic program which was uncovered to be of a corrupt

nature (sponsorship scandal), is something completely different than

one instance of a CoS deciding to repay the tax payer with his

personal money, for a senator's GREED.

Spin it all you like, Justin. You can eat out

of Baynes slimy hands as much as you crave fake scandals. You are

even free to consider Duffy as your latest hero. Eat your heart out!

Staff working at the PMO at the time, did not reveal the source of

the payment because Wright has requested to keep that payment

confidential. Then the lies started in order to try and keep that

personal payment confidential.

Did Wright and others create a huge mess? Absolutely.

Were they (excluding Duffy) engaged in corruption? Not so if you

believe that Chretien could get away with lying about abolishing the

GST! That, too, was a lie, a complete lie. A lie to vault hmself

into the PM chair where he then sat for many years after.. You think Chretien's lie about scrapping

the GST was NOT known by his most closest of advisers? You seriously

think Chretien did not include others in his lie to scrap the GST????

I have read the emails, or most of them at least, and they are the facts. Did you read them?

What, exactly, within my comment do you not agree with? Please do tell.

That decision to pay the $90,000 from either the party or, as it turns out, from Wright personally, is what came first. All the rest follows as a result of a request by Wright to keep his payment confidential.

Follow the emails. The first action by the PMO was all about how to repay the money to the tax payers. Then all the rest comes later. All Wright had asked Duffy to shut up about was where the actual payment came from. Duffy was flip flopping all the time, read the emails, read them.

Did you read the three emails in which Duffy clearly indicates he feels he should in fact repay the expenses? And did you read the other emails in between in which Duffy explains why he should not pay back the expenses? Duffy, too, did not have a clue as to what rules should apply and what not. He acted as if he sometimes agreed with claiming his non incurred expenses, when he was most greedy of mind, I suppose, and sometimes he let loose in his correspondence that he himself should pay back those very same expenses.

It is a tempest in a teapot. You should follow the sequence of events as how they happened in real time.

[eyeball]

I don't know,do you ever get the sense that you lack realism?

No. I get the sense I lack a system of governance that doesn't cling to traditions that were steeped in crap like the right of Kings, Papal Bulls and the Supremacy of God.

I mean it is 20 effing 15 right? Sure there were also the Magna Carta, Petition of Right and Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen but the reality is that it's been an uphill struggle all the way, mostly due to having to drag conservatives kicking and screaming every goddamned step of the way.

Edited August 17, 2015 by eyeball

[eyeball]

I for one am terribly upset that they wanted him to pay back what he owed, and it was paid back, were it not for the irrational hatred of anything conservative by people like you, maybe they wouldnt have bothered to try to hide it. again, I find it really troubling that a senator was stealing from us and the government demanded he repay. Those bastards.

I only hate politicized conservatism. Beyond that I not only see the utility in being naturally cautious but practice conservatism everyday.

And as I've said many times before I would actually try to see to it that any government run by a political party I was supporting with all my heart and soul was wired with the sort of means to monitor and souveil it's activities that would make Orwell blush. The very last thing I would want to see is for that party to screw up my hopes for governing ourselves towards a better future by something as mundane as my representative's venal self-interest.

Oh and btw, what you see as irrational hatred in others is merely a reflection of your own irrational love.

Edited August 17, 2015 by eyeball

[waldo]

It's the PM who said he fired Wright.

yup, that's right! Of course, the "media lines" previously had Harper stating Wright resigned... and in conjunction with that we had the daily 'drip, drip, drip' of press statements from Harper Conservative Cabinet Ministers all talking up the positive ethics and integrity of the 'goodSoldierWright'! Then... all of a sudden, in a miraculous over-night transformation, Harper trots out and states he fired Wright! Hypocrite.

Harper now says he fired chief of staff for $90,000 cheque to Duffy

Stephen Harper is changing the story on how his chief aide left the Prime Minister’s office after it was revealed Nigel Wright personally bailed out beleaguered Senator Mike Duffy.

Mr. Harper revealed Monday morning in a Halifax radio interview that Mr. Wright was fired from his job as chief of staff in the PMO.

Previously the Conservative Leader has always said the Bay Street executive resigned the top job in the Prime Minister’s office.

‎"I think the responsibility whenever things go wrong is for us to take appropriate action,” Mr. Harper told News 95.7 Halifax.

“As you know I had a chief of staff who made an inappropriate payment to Mr. Duffy. He was dismissed.‎”

[cybercoma]

.

Edited August 17, 2015 by cybercoma

[PIK]

By OCT this will be over and if the media is fair ,the front pages will be full of Mac Harb stories. Like the one where he thought owning .01% of a home was good enough. That is real fraud against the people.

[waldo]

By OCT this will be over and if the media is fair ,the front pages will be full of Mac Harb stories.

sorry to burst your bubble: "With suspended Sen. Mike Duffy’s criminal trial taking much longer than expected, the trial of former senator Mac Harb has been postponed into the new year, his lawyer says." ... apparently... it's the same prosecutor's handling both trials.

[The_Squid]

Who bribed Mac Harb?

Clearly, the PMO involvement has made the Duffy scandal way more important than Mac Harb ripping off taxpayers.

If anyone thinks that it will receive the same media attention, then they haven't been listening. Also, if you think it's some sort of media conspiracy when it doesn't, then you also haven't been paying attention.

This is the PMO bribing a Senator. Everyone in the PMO's office, including his lawyer and the Party itself, was in on it and it was attempted to be covered up. There were plenty of lies about who knew what from the PM and his Cabinet in the House during QP.

The PMO's office also attempted to mess with an independent audit to help Duffy avoid scrutiny.

Gee... I wonder why this is getting so much attention... Give your partisan heads a shake...

[Keepitsimple]

Who bribed Mac Harb?

This is the PMO bribing a Senator.

No it's not. No charges were laid against Wright that he "bribed" Duffy........and as slippery a character as Duffy is, it looks very doubtful that Duffy can be/will be convicted of receiving a bribe.

[Smallc]

Who bribed Mac Harb?

Clearly, the PMO involvement has made the Duffy scandal way more important than Mac Harb ripping off taxpayers.

In the case of Harb, it actually cost the taxpayers something. That makes it far worse.

[Evening Star]

In the case of Harb, it actually cost the taxpayers something. That makes it far worse.

Well, if money was coming from the CPC's fund, it would have been taxpayer-subsidized as well.

[Smallc]

Well, if money was coming from the CPC's fund, it would have been taxpayer-subsidized as well.

That would have been wrong, and I could see a problem if that had happened as planned.

[The_Squid]

No it's not. No charges were laid against Wright that he "bribed" Duffy........and as slippery a character as Duffy is, it looks very doubtful that Duffy can be/will be convicted of receiving a bribe.

Duffy was charged with taking a bribe. Whether there is enough evidence to convict is different than if it is true that he was actually was bribed.

And a lack of charges against the PMO was due to the fact that they didn't think there would be a likelihood of conviction, not because he didn't actually do it. Where did the money come from for Duffy to be bribed? Did it fall out of the sky, or was it the money Wright was giving him?

In the case of Harb, it actually cost the taxpayers something. That makes it far worse.

No, sorry... messing with an independent audit to get your partisan hack off the hook is worse. Bribery by the PMO is worse... The PMO knowing about the fraudulent activities by their Senator and covering it up is worse.

Mac Harb should go to jail, no doubt... but to try and excuse the PMO's behaviour is so transparently partisan hackery.

[Smallc]

Bribery by the PMO is worse...

There's no accusation or charge to that effect.

[The_Squid]

There's no accusation or charge to that effect.

Duffy is charged with taking a bribe, is he not?

[Icebound]

In the case of Harb, it actually cost the taxpayers something. That makes it far worse.

Agreed... It cost them money, but he paid it back, so the cost was mitigated.

Duffy cost us something too, and it got paid back too.

Harb borrowed money privately to pay his debt. And disclosed the transaction to the Senate.

Duffy's expense was paid from the PMO's office, then covered up. What THAT cost us was trust. Why WOULD they want to cover this up?

[Smallc]

Duffy is charged with taking a bribe, is he not?

No one is charged with bribing him, now are they?

[Smallc]

Duffy's expense was paid from the PMO's office, then covered up. What THAT cost us was trust. Why WOULD they want to cover this up?

I think if they had just been upfront about it, no one would have cared.

[PIK]

Scared of the media. They know any little thing and they will get jumped big time by the MSM. Especially the CBC. They have a vested interest in this election.

[Topaz]

The news is saying today in court, its looking like Duffy was pressured to take the money offered to settle the matter. I wondering IF blackmail is going to result in this action, instead of a bribe. Harper has so many stories out there he could write a book about his reasons for not knowing what happen and what the was told to him what happen! He always says when he commenting on this topic.."we" were told or "we"..who's WE Him and Novak?? Novak had to know what was going on, cause he wouldn't want any harm to come to his boss and friend.

[Keepitsimple]

He always says when he commenting on this topic.."we" were told or "we"..who's WE Him and Novak?? Novak had to know what was going on, cause he wouldn't want any harm to come to his boss and friend.

Pretty simple. "We" is all the people in the PMO who didn't know about Nigel Wright's $90,000 cheque. There are almost 100 people who work in the PMO and as Harper has said, the "vast majority" didn't know. Let's not lose complete perspective....on any given day, there are a lot more serious issues going on in Canada and around the world than the Duffy affair. Until it all blew up, it shouldn't have even been on Harper's radar. ISIS, the Ukraine, Trade agreements, pipelines, the economy.......and at the time he should worry about.....Duffy?

[waldo]

Pretty simple. "We" is all the people in the PMO who didn't know about Nigel Wright's $90,000 cheque.

c'mon Simple... the best of the best short-pants crew in the PMO were on it! The "best" you can suggest is that Harper was purposely excluded for reasons of plausible deniability... but as the days go one, fewer and fewer people are even willing to give that 'benefit of the doubt'!

[eyeball]

There's no accusation or charge to that effect.

There is in the court of public prosecution.