Big Guy Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 If you want to prepare a youngster for the future then you become far more concerned with methodology of learning and critical reasoning, human interaction, punctuality, deadlines, organizational skills etc. All attributes which are important to all careers. In my parents day, each person would probably go through life doing one thing - the thing he got into early and continued for his working life. My generation saw changes that caused many to work through 2 or more careers. I had two careers and consider retirement as a third career. Those students in high school today can anticipate 4 or more careers over their working lifetimes. The details of their jobs will change, but the personal skills required to perform those jobs will remain the same. The personal will be expected to learn for themselves the information required for the next career. I have two children who are currently both in their second careers. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 Really? We can't talk about the motivation for ISIS and the incompetence and corruption of the Iraqi regime without discussing the melting temperature of Iron and Aluminum? Discussing the physics of 9/11 is only part of it. Without understanding the motive (to expand the 'war on terror'), explaining any of the physics won't matter. So it's not something I really get into. Not really. And I've delved deeper than most. There is no coherent, reasonable or even possible explanation other than that of the government. To think there is no other explanation seems kind of naive. Even if the US government admitted it, would you believe it? Like I said, I've dug deep and there are a select few that really stand out. Other than that, yes most of it is garbage. Quote
eyeball Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Really? We can't talk about the motivation for ISIS and the incompetence and corruption of the Iraqi regime without discussing the melting temperature of Iron and Aluminum?No we just can't talk about motivation unless it occurred a few days ago or a few hundred yeas ago. The period of time in between is a no go zone - the god-awfulest stupidest people on the planet, right-wing westerners, won't have it any other way. Edited April 7, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 If you want to prepare a youngster for the future then you become far more concerned with methodology of learning and critical reasoning, human interaction, punctuality, deadlines, organizational skills etc. All attributes which are important to all careers. It takes a generation to change the make up and mentality of society. So this is why the state loves to get to the children first. Influence the way they think and act and you can have whatever society you desire. I have two children who are currently both in their second careers. This is going to be more common as technology progresses at an exponential rate. Putting masses of people out of work, or needing to adjust their skill set for a new career. Job security is a thing of the past. And the future looks a bit bleak with this trend. Being in IT I have had to adjust my skill set several times over the past 15 years. In fact I am constantly adjusting the skill set to make me more employable and relevant. It's not easy. Quote
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 No we just can't talk about motivation unless it occurred a few days ago or a few hundred yeas ago. The period of time in between is a no go zone - the god-awfulest stupidest people on the planet, right-wing westerners, won't have it any other way. We can call it being selective with what a poster thinks is relevant. A person will bash Obama for the War on Terror failure without giving props to the previous administration that helped bring it to that situation. Simply because of partisanship. Quote
Argus Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Posted April 7, 2015 People were "stupid" a long long long time before the internet existed, and if anything they believed in MORE nonsense before. Yes, but you're using examples from the distant past. Society has progressed, but then the internet happened and it's like it's regressing... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Posted April 7, 2015 No we just can't talk about motivation unless it occurred a few days ago or a few hundred yeas ago. The period of time in between is a no go zone - the god-awfulest stupidest people on the planet, right-wing westerners, won't have it any other way. I'm perfectly willing to entertain a coherent thesis which tells me what the motivation would be for hundreds of people to collude on a massive, virtually impossible scheme to blow up three buildings, not to mention the pentagon, especially if it incorporates how they'd keep it a secret for years afterward. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 Yes, but you're using examples from the distant past. Society has progressed, but then the internet happened and it's like it's regressing... What do you mean, we can't learn from history? Quote
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 I'm perfectly willing to entertain a coherent thesis which tells me what the motivation would be for hundreds of people to collude on a massive, virtually impossible scheme to blow up three buildings, not to mention the pentagon, especially if it incorporates how they'd keep it a secret for years afterward. How did the CIA manage to keep some of their operations secret for years? Last year some damaging information came out about something the CIA did 40+ years ago. Whatever happens now, you won't hear about it possibly for a couple decades. Quote
eyeball Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 I'm perfectly willing to entertain a coherent thesis which tells me what the motivation would be for hundreds of people to collude on a massive, virtually impossible scheme to blow up three buildings, not to mention the pentagon, especially if it incorporates how they'd keep it a secret for years afterward. That's right, you'll discuss anything other than what actually happened. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
dre Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 Yes, but you're using examples from the distant past. Society has progressed, but then the internet happened and it's like it's regressing... This is just a hunch on your part and I dont see any evidence of it. And not all my examples are from the "distant past". Religion was at its peek shortly prior to large scale use of the internet. A huge ammount of people believed in mediums, phsycis, alien ufo's, astrology, etc etc etc. Heres one anecdote that shows the decline of one of the worlds greatest supersitions during the life of the internet. And you mentioned homeopathy... Heres a graph showing its decline in GB as internet use became more wide spread. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
socialist Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 We do in fact have worse outcomes. Based on what? Some useless standardized test where learners fill in bubbles? It's easy to identify those who know nothing about education. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Argus Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Posted April 7, 2015 How did the CIA manage to keep some of their operations secret for years? Last year some damaging information came out about something the CIA did 40+ years ago. Whatever happens now, you won't hear about it possibly for a couple decades. Because only a few bosses, and a few contractor types knew what happened. I don't think the CIA ever brought in hundreds of non-agency folks to do some truly horrific unpatriotic stuff at any point in history and expected them all to keep their yaps shut until their deathbeds and beyond... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Posted April 7, 2015 This is just a hunch on your part and I dont see any evidence of it. And not all my examples are from the "distant past". Religion was at its peek shortly prior to large scale use of the internet. A huge ammount of people believed in mediums, phsycis, alien ufo's, astrology, etc etc etc. Heres one anecdote that shows the decline of one of the worlds greatest supersitions during the life of the internet. And you mentioned homeopathy... Heres a graph showing its decline in GB as internet use became more wide spread. You're conflating different things which have no obvious relationship. Religion has been in decline since the sixties. The fact this has continued is not related to the advent of the internet. Likewise, the wider availability of public health care would likely result in less need to resort to mysterious remedies which probably don't work. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bryan Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) You're conflating different things which have no obvious relationship. Religion has been in decline since the sixties. The fact this has continued is not related to the advent of the internet. Likewise, the wider availability of public health care would likely result in less need to resort to mysterious remedies which probably don't work. I wonder if Dre thinks this chart has meaning too: Or maybe this one: It's obvious by these numbers that more pirates will stop global warming, and allowing more people to drive with cell phones will reduce accidents. Right? Edited April 7, 2015 by Bryan Quote
guyser Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 It's easy to identify those who know nothing about education.It sure is . ....cough cough....... Quote
Argus Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Posted April 7, 2015 That's right, you'll discuss anything other than what actually happened. So in other words you don't HAVE a coherent theory for why hundreds of people would conspire to blow up three buildings plus the pentagon and expect to keep it secret to the end of their lives. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonlight Graham Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) The thing is they do teach this. That's what all of this "discovery method" stuff is about when it comes to maths. Students are to think critically about the problems and discover ways of solving things on their own that are rational to them. Contrast this with rote memorization of tables and formulae. Yes, they do teach some critical thinking skills in high school and below. In English class writing essays or in science or in math class. But students need to be drilled this into their heads, and they need to be told WHY they need these skills. These are the MOST IMPORTANT skills they will EVER learn. They're needed to become thinking, functional adult human beings in our society. They must be taught and reminded time and again that they must be critical of not just what they read in some Shakespeare play or math problem, but they must be critical of and question every single assumption that they've ever had and ever will come across. To never take anyone's word for anything, and to question everything, be critical of everything until shown logical evidence or reasoning to adequately support or prove it. This will raise citizens who aren't just sheep, who won't be easily tricked by media or government propaganda, but are free thinkers. The thing is, high school teachers don't want to teach children these skills, because then the students will begin questioning the teachers themselves and some possibly illegitimate aspects of their power over them. Many teachers like students who are sheep and unquestioningly obey the rules and their authority because it makes their jobs easier since they're easier to control. Many parents are the same, and they often don't teach their children these skills either for the same reasons. Obey the rules, don't question my authority, do as I say because I say so. Follow this religion because I say so etc. Students these days are far better critical thinkers than they have ever been. I agree, but it must still be improved dramatically. Still figure how many morons with poor critical thinking skills graduate from high schools in Canada. Edited April 8, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
eyeball Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 So in other words you don't HAVE a coherent theory for why hundreds of people would conspire to blow up three buildings plus the pentagon and expect to keep it secret to the end of their lives./facepalm Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Derek 2.0 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Discussing the physics of 9/11 is only part of it. Without understanding the motive (to expand the 'war on terror'), explaining any of the physics won't matter. So it's not something I really get into. And that is where the conspiracy theories encompassing 9/11 fall apart...........Prior to 9/11, in not one single instance has the United States, in all its history, required killing it's own citizens, to gain public support, to wage a war against a foe that runs counter to its predetermined foreign policy....... Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 I'm perfectly willing to entertain a coherent thesis which tells me what the motivation would be for hundreds of people to collude on a massive, virtually impossible scheme to blow up three buildings, not to mention the pentagon, especially if it incorporates how they'd keep it a secret for years afterward. And the same administration that kept such an act secret, several years later, was unable to "produce" several shipping containers in Iraq full of the fore mentioned WMDs........ Quote
GostHacked Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Yes, they do teach some critical thinking skills in high school and below. In English class writing essays or in science or in math class. But students need to be drilled this into heads, and they need to be told WHY they need these skills. These are the MOST IMPORTANT skills they will EVER learn. They're needed to become thinking, functional adult human beings in our society. They must be taught and reminded time and again that they must be critical not just what they read in some Shakespeare play or math problem, but they must be critical of and question every single assumption that they've ever had and ever will come across. To never take anyone's word for anything, and to question everything, be critical of everything until shown logical evidence or reasoning to adequately support or prove it. This will raise citizens who aren't just sheep, who won't be easily tricked by media or government propaganda, but are free thinkers. Damn MG, this is perfect. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 Moonlight Graham: Yes, they do teach some critical thinking skills in high school and below. In English class writing essays or in science or in math class. ------------------ And western societies have failed miserably at this. Not only do high school students fail to exhibit these critical thinking skills, so too do adults at every level of society. The sheep are so easily frightened on so many topics that truly need to be discussed. Quote
Hydraboss Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 And western societies have failed miserably at this. Not only do high school students fail to exhibit these critical thinking skills, so too do adults at every level of society. True. Easily proven by the existence of websites/money grubbers such as AE911, etc. Quote "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot" - AND APPARENTLY A SOCIALIST (2010) (2015)Economic Left/Right: 8.38 3.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.13 -1.23
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Posted April 28, 2015 ...The sheep are so easily frightened on so many topics that truly need to be discussed. Meh...most of the "sheep" just don't give a damn and would rather follow celebrity news and sports entertainment. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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