Is the Internet making us stupid?

[GostHacked]

So this is a new point you're making. What does it have to do with the internet making us stupid ?

I attempted to answer your questions, don't blame me for thread drift.

For the record, I don't think "parallels 9/11" is the best way to describe this event.

That's part of the problem. You can't see the parallels.

You have stated on here that you will never change your mind about 9/11. I haven't made that claim, so you're wrong.

I think you are afraid to make a claim, because when you make a stance or a claim, and it is false, you are called stupid. So I can appreciate why one would never take a stance.

[Michael Hardner]

I attempted to answer your questions, don't blame me for thread drift.

The Reichstag fire ?

No, again you're making a sort of binary classification of the affairs of mankind. If they can be sold Coke Zero, then they can be sold any propaganda, I guess is your point. I don't agree. These are qualitative differences.

Galileo was called a heretic and a madman, but his science was correct. That doesn't mean that madmen don't exist, it just means that sometimes we're wrong. You have to look at the quality of the information and the context.

For example, I'm giving you this lesson not because I'm right but because I'm bored and didactic. That colours the information I'm giving you whether it's right or wrong.

I think you are afraid to make a claim, because when you make a stance or a claim, and it is false, you are called stupid. So I can appreciate why one would never take a stance.

I don't think anybody would call me stupid for saying I would NEVER be convinced of something. I could be called closed-minded I suppose. I'm careful with my words. I think others should be too.

[GostHacked]

So in the end, we can agree that the Internet is not making people stupid.

[Michael Hardner]

Agree

[Moonlight Graham]

The echo chambers of stupidity they find on the internet reinforces their own stupidity, MG. You wouldn't get that years ago. It would be incredibly difficult to find like-minded individuals, save for joining a cult.

Yes, fair enough.

I think no matter how much quality information is out there, there will still be people who don't now how to think logically and critically. They need to teach this much more in high school and lower as they do in post-secondary schools. Some people, however, are probably next to hopeless.

[socialist]

This is an interesting topic, and one that I've wrestled with for quite some time. The public education system has made it a priority to teach critical thinking as part of 21st century learning. Public schools are leading the way in educating youth to think critically. We are teaching them that you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Modern history textbooks deal more with feelings and how things were allowed to happen over the boring process of memorizing dates and names.

I think in the next 10 to 20 years we will see a population that is much more critically engaged than the current baby boomer generation. I find that digital citizens are much better critical thinkers because the public education system is focusing on critical thinking along with collaboration.

[Moonlight Graham]

Just from watching my Facebook feed, it's pretty scary the sources for articles people post and believe. These are the people that are worrisome to me, and make up a sizeable chunk of the population. They're easily influenced and don't have the critical thinking skills to assess good and bad sources of info.

There are then those (a minority) that are just hopelessly stupid and can't be reasoned with, and won't be swayed on their stupidity. There are others that are reasonable and think critically and where the internet is a net positive for them since they can access vast sources of good information and can sift out the dubious sources.

So essentially, I think the Internet makes stupid people more stupid and smart people smarter. The internet seems to reinforce what people already are.

[Bryan]

Public schools are leading the way in educating youth to think critically.

Not true. Public education tries to beat the critical thinking skills out of kids as much as possible. What they want is to indoctrinate kids into left-wing ideologies, and to buy into ridiculous concepts that no reasonable person would accept if they actually were thinking critically.

[Big Guy]

If the Internet does indeed make you stupid one might jump to the conclusion that the more one uses it then the more stupid they become.

To test this theory I looked at this site and the posters here. I compared to see if there was any relationship between the number of posts by the individual and stupidity exhibited by the individual.

I have found that in many cases the hypothesis is true; In too many cases it appears that stupidity is directly proportional to the number of posts posted by the individual.

I am becoming a believer.

[socialist]

Not true. Public education tries to beat the critical thinking skills out of kids as much as possible. What they want is to indoctrinate kids into left-wing ideologies, and to buy into ridiculous concepts that no reasonable person would accept if they actually were thinking critically.

You have absolutely no evidence to back up the ridiculous claims you make.

[Bryan]

You have absolutely no evidence to back up the ridiculous claims you make.

I have two kids, I see it everyday.

[socialist]

I have two kids, I see it everyday.

being a teacher basher doesn't mean anything. You supposedly see stuff everyday yet you still send your kids to school. Something strange there buddy boy.

[Bryan]

being a teacher basher doesn't mean anything. You supposedly see stuff everyday yet you still send your kids to school. Something strange there buddy boy.

I stay involved so that people like you don't ruin their education. There are some very good teachers, but the overall (NDP) education policy is leaving our kids behind. Manitoba students have the worst outcomes in the country because of it. If you want your kids to excell (and mine do), you have to intervene on a regular basis.

[socialist]

I stay involved so that people like you don't ruin their education. There are some very good teachers, but the overall (NDP) education policy is leaving our kids behind. Manitoba students have the worst outcomes in the country because of it. If you want your kids to excell (and mine do), you have to intervene on a regular basis.

Manitoba does not have the worst outcomes. But if they did, maybe it's because of the high rate of child poverty in that province.

[Smallc]

Manitoba does not have the worst outcomes. But if they did, maybe it's because of the high rate of child poverty in that province.

We do in fact have worse outcomes.

[Bryan]

Manitoba does not have the worst outcomes. But if they did, maybe it's because of the high rate of child poverty in that province.

Dead last in the country in math, science, and reading:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1602169/manitoba-students-perform-worst-in-canada-in-science-reading-math/

It's been a steady decline since the NDP came to power:

http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/features/education-rankings/

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bryan

[cybercoma]

Yes, fair enough.

I think no matter how much quality information is out there, there will still be people who don't now how to think logically and critically. They need to teach this much more in high school and lower as they do in post-secondary schools. Some people, however, are probably next to hopeless.

The thing is they do teach this. That's what all of this "discovery method" stuff is about when it comes to maths. Students are to think critically about the problems and discover ways of solving things on their own that are rational to them. Contrast this with rote memorization of tables and formulae. Students these days are far better critical thinkers than they have ever been.

The problem is industries don't want critical thinkers. They want cogs for their systems. Critical thinkers don't make very good cogs. So we hear that the Canadian labour force is "unprepared for the working world" and yet they bring in temporary foreign workers to fill the "skills gap." Don't tell me someone from a developing nation has far better "skills" than someone who can't find a job but was educated here. The skills that these TFWs bring to the table is unquestioning, unthinking labour. They don't analyze or think critically about their jobs or job offers. They're just happy to have any job here, so they can often times send money home and maybe some day get full citizenship. The skills gap is between those who are over-skilled to the point that they think critically about acquiring employment and those who will just be human machines and merely function without thought or question to what they're doing. It's between critical thinkers and people as tools, used as a means to an end: profits.

[cybercoma]

I stay involved so that people like you don't ruin their education. There are some very good teachers, but the overall (NDP) education policy is leaving our kids behind. Manitoba students have the worst outcomes in the country because of it. If you want your kids to excell (and mine do), you have to intervene on a regular basis.

Manitoba's outcomes are roughly on par with the OECD average. In math, they're above PEI and Newfoundland. You can read the results of the Programme for International Student Assessment here, if you actually care about education performances.

http://cmec.ca/Publications/Lists/Publications/Attachments/318/PISA2012_CanadianReport_EN_Web.pdf

Edit 1: A difference of about 25 points is roughly equivalent to one grade level in skill.

Edit 2: You may be referring to the decline in math skills, which was the largest in Manitoba. However, making this a partisan issue is nonsensical, as Alberta saw a huge decline as well and has been Conservative for decades.

Edited April 7, 2015 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

You'll also notice that British Columbia has the highest performing education system in the country, which makes it baffling why the province seems intent on destroying it.

[Bryan]

You'll also notice that British Columbia has the highest performing education system in the country, which makes it baffling why the province seems intent on destroying it.

I notice that you are using old data on both counts. Manitoba is DEAD LAST. BC does better than MB, but they are not first.

http://cmec.ca/Publications/Lists/Publications/Attachments/337/PCAP-2013-Public-Report-EN.pdf

[Wilber]

Actually, something that does nothing is always better than something that is damaging.

But I know that's not that you meant.

It's also naive to think that remedies can't have side effects just because they are homeopathic.

[cybercoma]

I notice that you are using old data on both counts. Manitoba is DEAD LAST. BC does better than MB, but they are not first.

http://cmec.ca/Publications/Lists/Publications/Attachments/337/PCAP-2013-Public-Report-EN.pdf

I'm not using old data. I'm using the most up to date international assessment. You're using the Canadian PCAP assessment, which is a different tool. PISA is arguably a better metric since it is standardized to the OECD average, but I take your point that PCAP shows Manitoba in dead last. Even PISA shows Manitoba third from the bottom, but that wasn't the point of me pointing it out. You were making it a partisan issue and Alberta's numbers have dropped just as substantially over the years under successive Tory governments. It's not a partisan issue. BC has the highest numbers in the country and they've had NDP leadership from 1991 to 2001 and Liberals since then. The poor numbers in Manitoba is just not a partisan issue, despite your unfounded attempt to make it one. Edited April 7, 2015 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Also, just to be clear:

Sample sizes have permitted results to be calculated at both a pan-Canadian and jurisdictional level. PCAP, and SAIP before it, is not intended to replace provincial and territorial assessments, but rather to complement them. Given the random sampling and the nature of the PCAP assessment, it is also not a measure of individual student achievement. On a program level, jurisdictions can validate the results of their own assessments against PCAP results as well as those of the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA).

The report I provided was the PISA report they mention here.

Edited April 7, 2015 by cybercoma

[Argus]

Something you see a lot nowadays is politicians giving speeches from a podium that's been decorated with their talking points, in front of a wall full of posters with the same talking points. They know that on the news, people are only going to see 10 seconds of the speech, so they put up a Cole's Notes of the speech so that people can see from their 10 seconds what he was actually talking about.

-k

The worst part is it's trained us into a short attention span. If the TV news actually did triple or quadruple the size of their news stories a lot of people would get bored and turn the station. Even the newspapers won't reprint any sizable portion of a speech now. You'll get a sentence or two and then a summary in the reporter's words.

[Argus]

We talk about a terror attack that happened 15 years ago simply because it is part of what brings us to where we are now.

You cannot talk about the current situation in Iraq without talking about 9/11.

Really? We can't talk about the motivation for ISIS and the incompetence and corruption of the Iraqi regime without discussing the melting temperature of Iron and Aluminum?

There is good stuff and bad stuff regarding 9/11, there is a lot of material out about 9/11 and most of it is junk. But there

are some good ones that will make you question things.

Not really. And I've delved deeper than most. There is no coherent, reasonable or even possible explanation other than that of the government.