Obama’s Iran deal falls far short of his own goals

[Rue]

WWWT you clearly show your ignorance as to the symbol of the Israeli flag so I will address it directly.

First off there is no religious council that runs Israel. There are several political parties committed to their version of Jewish religion but they do not

control the government.

The government itself seperates religion from state function which is why Muslims and Christians can opt out to their

own religious courts for wills, estates, inheritance, marriage, family laws and why Muslims have all the legal rights no Jew has in a sharia law nation of Jews had in a Christian nation and why Muslims who are Israelis have the highest standard of living of any Muslim in the Middle East and have not left Israel.

You make the ignorant assumption that Zionism is about imposing Jewish religion.. Its not. Its about defining a Jew as a national citizen.

The actual flag of Israel was the Zionist flag. Zionists for the most part were agnostic or atheistic and did not practice Judaism. Thy defined their Jewishness as a national concept.

In fact the Star of David is not unique to Judaism. In fact it does not come from the Torah or any religious concept.

It came about as a cultural symbol. Jews saw how popular the sign of the fish and cross were for Christians and borrowed the 6 pointed star as a symbol.

Its a six pointed star used in many cultures and religions in different ways. There are many theories why it was taken on by Jews. One theory is Jewish warriors would interlock to triangles to make a shield. Another is it symbolizes the two way flow of energy from God to human and back again but its not a religious symbol unique to Jews.

Now in fact the blue stripes refer to the Jewish prayer shawl an the tzitzit, the actual fringe on it. The colour blue means either the colour of the sky or perhaps the colour of the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible and the blue and white symbolize purity in life.

The flag itself refers to the rebirth of Jews.

One can always count on you to go off on a tangent making false allegations about Israel.

Just so you know, Benjamin Netanyahu is not a Rabbia or Mullah or Priest or Chairman of a Party that worships a yellow star.

Now Back to Shady its a ridiculous sham of a treaty. It is so poorly worded there is no enforcement of its provisions and no guarantee of inspections let alone of the key things needed to be inspected to guarantee no bomb building.

Obama has given Iran the green light to attack Israel and the Sunni monarchies. That was his real intent. His legacy is to go out giving the finger to the oil monarchies. He hates them the same reason he does Israel. He sees them both as the real enemy of the Muslim world not Hamas,Hezbollah, Iran. Hell he wouldn't even be fighting ISIL had they not turned on him.He'd be financing them right now if all they did was stroke his ego.

Obama is and has always been a Muslim Brotherhood supporter. That was his agenda from day one. His legacy is to leave behind civil wars that continue in Mali, Somalia. Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Muslim extremists attacking innocent civilians in Kenya, Nigeria, Chad. Dahomey, Niger,Senegal, the Philippines, Pakistan.

He was one great Muslim visionary. He and his two wise men, Erdogan and Morsi proved to be hateful, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-democratic fascists. Atta boy Barry. The only armed muscle Obama ever brought to office was his wife's arms.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Rue

[Je suis Omar]

I'll open this up to the floor, since Je is too confused by the issues involved. Are we all okay that the US gets to decide who should have nukes?

-----------------------

You're just one non sequitur after another, Sharkman. I didn't suggest that the USA deciding that would be a good or bad idea. I didn't suggest it at all.

Sharkman: What about the logic that says if one nation in a region has nukes, then another should have the right simply because there shouldn't be just one, the left's hatred of nuclear power be damned.

Do try to focus. Edited April 4, 2015 by Je suis Omar

[Je suis Omar]

Rue: The actual flag of Israel was the Zionist flag. Zionists for the most part were agnostic or atheistic and did not practice Judaism.

You forgot to mention that they were/are also terrorists and war criminals. No biggee that, lots of folks do it.

Rue: Thy defined their Jewishness as a national concept.

No chance for overwhelming racism to occur because of that.

[Je suis Omar]

Rue: He and his two wise men, Erdogan and Morsi proved to be hateful, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-democratic fascists.

Compare them to your average run of the mill USA dictator and what?

Let's try to remember now, the USA is supposed to be the saviour of the oppressed, the folks who are in the business of advancing democracy.

[sharkman]

Do try to focus.

As soon as you quit side stepping and making excuses, pal.

[Je suis Omar]

Sharkman: the left's hatred of nuclear power be damned.

According to which extensive Sharkman survey?

[Je suis Omar]

As soon as you quit side stepping and making excuses, pal.

I'm not doing either of those things. I asked one simple pointed question of one particular individual. I made none of the pronouncements you attribute to me. It was one very pointed question and it could have seen some further discussion ensue, had the question been answered, which it wasn't.

Might you consider asking that person, was it Rue???, about evasion, side stepping and the like?

[Je suis Omar]

I'll open this up to the floor, since Je is too confused by the issues involved. Are we all okay that the US gets to decide who should have nukes?

Je suis Omar: A big no to letting the USA decide anything. History has shown us that this only results in millions of innocents dying and the USA being allowed to steal more wealth that belongs to the poor of the world.

Look at the UN. The historical record shows that the USA, and therefore Israel and any other tiny nations the USA can frighten into supporting its cruel policies, in all a tiny minority, constantly vote against UN policies designed to advance poor nations and their peoples.

Sharkman: What about the logic that says if one nation in a region has nukes, then another should have the right simply because there shouldn't be just one, the left's hatred of nuclear power be damned.

I'll defer until whoever is the evader answers my question.

[Derek 2.0]

Is 300kg of enriched uranium enough to build a single bomb, or is it enough to wipe out the entire earth?

Depends on the Iranians level of efficiency in their bomb making and enrichment........70 years ago, Fat Man and Little Boy required ~60-70 kg each of Uranium, but only ~2% of the material was actually fissioned..........If one were to assume Iran has access to Wikipedia, Iran is likely to attempt to develop an implosion device (as every other nuclear power has since the Second World War) which is far more efficient and would require ~1/3rd the level of uranium (or ~20-25 kg) per (low yield) bomb...........

At best worse, if Iran were capable and received recipe books from other nuclear powers, with 300 kg of enriched uranium, the might be able to produce ~5-10 low yield bombs, or about the size of South Africa's former arsenal.........enough to carve out a good chunk of a modern city if mated with a viable delivery device...which is another hurdle if the Iranians want a deterrent capable of going toe-to-toe with the Israelis.

[eyeball]

At best worse, if Iran were capable and received recipe books from other nuclear powers, with 300 kg of enriched uranium, the might be able to produce ~5-10 low yield bombs, or about the size of South Africa's former arsenal.........enough to carve out a good chunk of a modern city if mated with a viable delivery device...which is another hurdle if the Iranians want a deterrent capable of going toe-to-toe with the Israelis.

That seems completely rational for a nation that has a bunch of nuclear missiles and armed forces pointed at them and that hasn't behaved any differently than the people pointing them.

I mean, putting yourself in their shoes should be really easy given you feel much the same way for much the same reason.

[sharkman]

That seems completely rational for a nation that has a bunch of nuclear missiles and armed forces pointed at them and that hasn't behaved any differently than the people pointing them.

I mean, putting yourself in their shoes should be really easy given you feel much the same way for much the same reason.

Really? Who's pointing nukes at them? I suppose you mean the bastard child of the region, Israel. Population 8 million. Surrounded by mostly hostile Arab nations with populations of, what, 200 million? 300 million?

So following your logic, every single nation in the region should be immediately given nuclear weapons because Israel might be pointing their armed forces and nukes at them. That really sounds like Obama logic.

[Bob Macadoo]

Really? Who's pointing nukes at them? I suppose you mean the bastard child of the region, Israel. Population 8 million. Surrounded by mostly hostile Arab nations with populations of, what, 200 million? 300 million?

So following your logic, every single nation in the region should be immediately given nuclear weapons because Israel might be pointing their armed forces and nukes at them. That really sounds like Obama logic.

Isn't that actually Israeli logic to be fair.......you have conventional missles pointed at me so I'll have nuclear missles pointed at you.

[Big Guy]

Or as a corollary - you send missiles into Israel and kill 2 Israeli's then Israel invades and kills 2,000 of you folks.

That sounds fair.

[sharkman]

Isn't that actually Israeli logic to be fair.......you have conventional missles pointed at me so I'll have nuclear missles pointed at you.

No, read my post a few more times if you need, It isn't only 2 nations in the region.

[sharkman]

Or as a corollary - you send missiles into Israel and kill 2 Israeli's then Israel invades and kills 2,000 of you folks.

That sounds fair.

Good grief, are you really so blind? How many missiles have been fired into Israel in each one of these missile escapades? How freaked out would Canadians be to such an act of terrorism, with the resulting effects across the country? If a foreign entity fired a hundred missiles a day into Toronto for a week, just how long do you propose we do nothing and just take it?

It's clear you're grasping at numbers, you really have little idea if Israel kills any or how many as they respond. I suppose some of the apologists for terrorism here would demand they do nothing at all month after month as suicide bombers, missile launches and kidnappings wreak havoc on the nation.

[jacee]

Good grief, are you really so blind? How many missiles have been fired into Israel in each one of these missile escapades? How freaked out would Canadians be to such an act of terrorism, with the resulting effects across the country? If a foreign entity fired a hundred missiles a day into Toronto for a week, just how long do you propose we do nothing and just take it?

It's clear you're grasping at numbers, you really have little idea if Israel kills any or how many as they respond. I suppose some of the apologists for terrorism here would demand they do nothing at all month after month as suicide bombers, missile launches and kidnappings wreak havoc on the nation.

So you support Israel in bombing civilians in Gaza?

You have no problem with the comparative death counts?

You think that's OK?

.

[Rue]

Jacee you continually come on this board and point out what Israel should not do. When asked what Israel should do, in response to terrorist and missile attacks you won't answer. As a result you lost any credibility on this issue long ago. Don't ask questions to others when you won't answer their questions.

More to the point you have been repeatedly provided an answer to the questions you asked and have demonstrated you are not interested in any discussion or debate you simply want to negate anything about Israel.

You are a one trick pony.

The device Big Guy uses to reduce this complex conflict to a hockey score and then determine what is right and wrong from the size of that score also speaks for itself. These are spent references.

Your tactic is to ignore the responses and simply repeat your mantra over and over again.

Buh bye now.

[Argus]

Isn't that actually Israeli logic to be fair.......you have conventional missles pointed at me so I'll have nuclear missles pointed at you.

If Iran was a tiny country surrounded by hostile Jewish countries with twenty times their population you might have a point.

[Bob Macadoo]

If Iran was a tiny country surrounded by hostile Jewish countries with twenty times their population you might have a point.

So you're saying the Shiites are pal'ing around with the Sunnis on how to missle level Israel?

[sharkman]

No. He's saying that if Iran was a tiny country surrounded by hostile Jewish countries with twenty times their population you might have a point.

[eyeball]

What if Iran had a lot of good reasons to distrust the rogue nuclear armed elephant that's been trampling on them along with just about everyone else in the region, except Israel, since at least 1953?

You just can't put yourself in those shoes no matter what can you?

[sharkman]

Yeah, like how many dozens of times Israel has bombed Iran, that alone is reason enough to give nukes to Iran. What planet are you living on?

[eyeball]

The one where elephants are invisible to you.

[sharkman]

The one where Israel is "trampling" all over the Middle East. It must be a sad place, try to find this other world where Obama is giving nukes to Iran for no real reason. Here, Coke is also better than Pepsi and it never rains in Southern California if that helps you out at all.

Edited April 14, 2015 by sharkman

[jacee]

Jacee you continually come on this board and point out what Israel should not do. When asked what Israel should do, in response to terrorist and missile attacks you won't answer. As a result you lost any credibility on this issue long ago. Don't ask questions to others when you won't answer their questions.

Stop the aggressive expansion and oppression and make peace.

That's too obvious to require much repetition.

.

Edited April 14, 2015 by jacee