Historic deal between Iran and the world could happen

marcus · April 8, 2015

Also, Iran getting nukes could start a nuclear arms race between Iran and Israel, and possibly Saudi Arabia as well. The less nukes the better IMO.

The race already started. Israel already has nukes and Pakistan is heavily influenced by Saudi Arabia. It's just that those in the race want to prevent others from entering it.

Rue · April 8, 2015

I actually agree with Marcus' last statement. Certainly that is Iran's motivation. it sees nuclear weapons as a necessity to be no.1 or keep up with no.1 in the ME. Its enemies know that better than anyone which is why Dre's statement that its getting a nuclear weapon will bring stability to the Middle East is the most idiotic contention I have heard to date just when I think they can't get any more idiotic.

At this time there is a war going on between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Hello someone let Dre in on that.Imagine if the naval destroyer Iran is moving had an ability to launch nuclear missiles.

It is precisely because neither Saudi Arabia or Iran at this time have nuclear weapons the entire complexity of the Sunni versus Shiite war is localized.

Once Iran has nuclear weapons Saudi will get their own from Saudi Arabia and so will Egypt. Its all about the posturing. Then the entire complexity changes and once we have Sunni an Shiites looking down each other's throats with nuclear weapons a nuclear catastrophe is highly likely.It won't be Israel with this weapon. It won't be a nation that has gone out of its way to shelter the Arab world from the fact it obtained nuclear weapons to protect itself against the Soviet Union. Since the down fall of the Soviet regime Israel has been silent on its nuclear weapons and it has never even admitted having them, a deliberate exercise to save face for Arab nations who would have otherwise felt the need to get one.

To understand ME culture one must understand its all about posturing. If you brandish a large sword, your foe must brandish a sword of equal size or he loses face and the war begins. Its all about mutual posturing. If one side feels the other side flinches and does not keep up, it attacks. This is why in each and every conflict Israel has had you've never heard the threat of using nuclear unless it was delivered at the Soviets and the missiles were pointed at Russia not Arab countries and the Arab foes of Israel knew that. It was an unwritten rule point your missiles at Russia and we get it.

This is why when this idiot Obama signalled Iran it needed them,the equilibrium was lost and Iran attacked sensing an advantage or a larger sword than Saudi Arabia's. Saudi Arabia had to save face by going into Yemen. Ordinarily its m.o. is to finance proxies not use its own forces-now it has started using its own troops and air force and Iran has as well on the ground in Iraq, Syria and now Yemen.

The days of Iran and Saudi Arabia-Egypt playing their Sunni-Shiite battle by proxy is over. Its moved to the next stage of direct confrontation and only an absolute idiot would think arming either side with nukes will make it calmer. The days of using Israel as the common scapegoat to prevent a war between Shiite and Sunni is over. Thank Obama for that. By showing hatred for Israel he neutralized the so called mutual enemy making it just as hated by their enemy as them. Now because they believe the US is just as much Israel's enemy as each other they genuinely see Israel as a neutral trusting no one and so strategically in its best interest to stay out unless its to help take down either side's extremists.

This is out of Israel's hands now. Israel used to be a way to guarantee no Arab state needed a nuclear weapon. The Arab nations could all use Israel as the common enemy to save face and not get one saying Israel only obtained it for a cold war. In fact you have never heard of an Arab nation after the Soviets left ever state it was threatened by Israel's nuclear weapons.

That rhetoric may be popular with trendy leftists but it was not the opinion of the Middle East foes of Israel. That changed though when Iran decided to push for its nuclear weapons and it changed when Israel took out Syria and Iraq reactors and Iran chose to pick up the challenge of going toe to toe with Israel to show its no.1. Saudi Arabia never had to. Its finances and ability to get a nuke from Pakistan or develop its own has always been there. Its strength in that sense never needed to be flexed. Its financial strength alone made the need for nuclear weapons redundant..

It really changed when Syria's and Iraq's nuclear attempts were bombed at the ground. In one case the US was relieved. In the other Bush felt it better he go in on the ground than leave it to Israel all alone on the urging of both Saudi Arabia and Netanyahu nonot to mention oil addicted West Euro states and even China who now is the no.1 exporter of oil from Iraq. Russia is the no.2 extractor of oil from Iraq. Funny no one notices that.

Now let's not kid ourselves this sham phony nuclear agreement is simply an excuse to lift sanctions to turn the oil and gas back on to the rest of the world suffering from the sanctions as much as Iran. That is all it is.

Now Iran feels embolded and sees the US cower at it, it invades on the ground it has changed the rules between itself and Saudi Arabia.

If the war in Yemen escalates, Israel will side with Saudi Arabia in a naval war and so may India. India is reluctant to get involved and has been making peace overtures with Iran, but if Iran becomes belligerent on the high seas, the first and largest merchant marine that will be under the gun is India which can not afford to be choked off that way.

India is a sleeper in this. Egypt and Saudi Arabia concentrate their strength in counter intelligence, armies and in Saudi Arabia's case air power.Naval wars are not its strength. Its always depended on Israel or the US or even Britain on the high seas to intercept terrorists.

Here we now have this idiot Obama fresh off of kissing Iran's asp and committing himself to leaving his face attached to their backseat, claiming they are a rational peaceful nation to be trusted, while arming Saudi Arabi to fight them-and you think Iran trusts Obama? You think they do not know he is a 2 faced player.

Understand the ME. If your foe lies to you to try manipulate you, you lie right back. That piece of paper is not worth a thing. It means nothing in the ME. Written agreements are not and have never been considered binding. That is some ridiculous Western legal fiction in a world where written agreements mean zero. In the Middle East talk means nothing. Its what you do not what you say.

Negotiations, written agreements, posturing to the press are what zoo animals do. Its considered the lowest form of human behaviour. Its like an animal masterbating at the zoo to an ME nation like S Arabia, Egypt or Iran.Netanyahu tried to warn Obama of that and the idiot couldn't stop chattering and prancing about stroking himself. Just play back the tapes of Obama and Kerry with their smug, I told you so we are smarter than everyone posturing. Its masturbation to ME warriors. Its shallow self indulgence and the words that come out of Obama's mouth are just leakage of his fluids.

Saudi Arabia will not back down. Neither will Iran. So the question is, will China again indirectly try get its ties with Israel and its new ties to Saudi Arabia and China to find away to back down from Iran if it can get Iran to back down?

Probably not. See how long that sham of a treaty keeps up the pretext for US-Iran normalized relations. Its already falling apart less than a week after it was allegedly signed.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Rue

GostHacked · April 8, 2015

Thats the thing... theres more than 300 individual sites from what I have read. And even if you destroyed a bunch of them you would still only set Iran back by a couple of years. Once you have the technology you dont "unlearn it".

We've also seen direct attacks on Iran's nuclear program already. Stuxnet. Now guess where that thing roams around. Iran said, 'cheeze it' and uploaded it to the net. Smart plan Israel/USA. Now the Internet is infected with Stuxnet.

Rue · April 9, 2015

Ah yes, another day, another accusation that Israel is spreading a virus. I love this forum. cough. cough.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Rue

dre · April 9, 2015

I actually agree with Marcus' last statement. Certainly that is Iran's motivation. it sees nuclear weapons as a necessity to be no.1 or keep up with no.1 in the ME. Its enemies know that better than anyone which is why Dre's statement that its getting a nuclear weapon will bring stability to the Middle East is the most idiotic contention I have heard to date just when I think they can't get any more idiotic.

At this time there is a war going on between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Hello someone let Dre in on that.Imagine if the naval destroyer Iran is moving had an ability to launch nuclear missiles.

It is precisely because neither Saudi Arabia or Iran at this time have nuclear weapons the entire complexity of the Sunni versus Shiite war is localized.

Once Iran has nuclear weapons Saudi will get their own from Saudi Arabia and so will Egypt. Its all about the posturing. Then the entire complexity changes and once we have Sunni an Shiites looking down each other's throats with nuclear weapons a nuclear catastrophe is highly likely.It won't be Israel with this weapon. It won't be a nation that has gone out of its way to shelter the Arab world from the fact it obtained nuclear weapons to protect itself against the Soviet Union. Since the down fall of the Soviet regime Israel has been silent on its nuclear weapons and it has never even admitted having them, a deliberate exercise to save face for Arab nations who would have otherwise felt the need to get one.

To understand ME culture one must understand its all about posturing. If you brandish a large sword, your foe must brandish a sword of equal size or he loses face and the war begins. Its all about mutual posturing. If one side feels the other side flinches and does not keep up, it attacks. This is why in each and every conflict Israel has had you've never heard the threat of using nuclear unless it was delivered at the Soviets and the missiles were pointed at Russia not Arab countries and the Arab foes of Israel knew that. It was an unwritten rule point your missiles at Russia and we get it.

This is why when this idiot Obama signalled Iran it needed them,the equilibrium was lost and Iran attacked sensing an advantage or a larger sword than Saudi Arabia's. Saudi Arabia had to save face by going into Yemen. Ordinarily its m.o. is to finance proxies not use its own forces-now it has started using its own troops and air force and Iran has as well on the ground in Iraq, Syria and now Yemen.

The days of Iran and Saudi Arabia-Egypt playing their Sunni-Shiite battle by proxy is over. Its moved to the next stage of direct confrontation and only an absolute idiot would think arming either side with nukes will make it calmer. The days of using Israel as the common scapegoat to prevent a war between Shiite and Sunni is over. Thank Obama for that. By showing hatred for Israel he neutralized the so called mutual enemy making it just as hated by their enemy as them. Now because they believe the US is just as much Israel's enemy as each other they genuinely see Israel as a neutral trusting no one and so strategically in its best interest to stay out unless its to help take down either side's extremists.

This is out of Israel's hands now. Israel used to be a way to guarantee no Arab state needed a nuclear weapon. The Arab nations could all use Israel as the common enemy to save face and not get one saying Israel only obtained it for a cold war. In fact you have never heard of an Arab nation after the Soviets left ever state it was threatened by Israel's nuclear weapons.

That rhetoric may be popular with trendy leftists but it was not the opinion of the Middle East foes of Israel. That changed though when Iran decided to push for its nuclear weapons and it changed when Israel took out Syria and Iraq reactors and Iran chose to pick up the challenge of going toe to toe with Israel to show its no.1. Saudi Arabia never had to. Its finances and ability to get a nuke from Pakistan or develop its own has always been there. Its strength in that sense never needed to be flexed. Its financial strength alone made the need for nuclear weapons redundant..

It really changed when Syria's and Iraq's nuclear attempts were bombed at the ground. In one case the US was relieved. In the other Bush felt it better he go in on the ground than leave it to Israel all alone on the urging of both Saudi Arabia and Netanyahu nonot to mention oil addicted West Euro states and even China who now is the no.1 exporter of oil from Iraq. Russia is the no.2 extractor of oil from Iraq. Funny no one notices that.

Now let's not kid ourselves this sham phony nuclear agreement is simply an excuse to lift sanctions to turn the oil and gas back on to the rest of the world suffering from the sanctions as much as Iran. That is all it is.

Now Iran feels embolded and sees the US cower at it, it invades on the ground it has changed the rules between itself and Saudi Arabia.

If the war in Yemen escalates, Israel will side with Saudi Arabia in a naval war and so may India. India is reluctant to get involved and has been making peace overtures with Iran, but if Iran becomes belligerent on the high seas, the first and largest merchant marine that will be under the gun is India which can not afford to be choked off that way.

India is a sleeper in this. Egypt and Saudi Arabia concentrate their strength in counter intelligence, armies and in Saudi Arabia's case air power.Naval wars are not its strength. Its always depended on Israel or the US or even Britain on the high seas to intercept terrorists.

Here we now have this idiot Obama fresh off of kissing Iran's asp and committing himself to leaving his face attached to their backseat, claiming they are a rational peaceful nation to be trusted, while arming Saudi Arabi to fight them-and you think Iran trusts Obama? You think they do not know he is a 2 faced player.

Understand the ME. If your foe lies to you to try manipulate you, you lie right back. That piece of paper is not worth a thing. It means nothing in the ME. Written agreements are not and have never been considered binding. That is some ridiculous Western legal fiction in a world where written agreements mean zero. In the Middle East talk means nothing. Its what you do not what you say.

Negotiations, written agreements, posturing to the press are what zoo animals do. Its considered the lowest form of human behaviour. Its like an animal masterbating at the zoo to an ME nation like S Arabia, Egypt or Iran.Netanyahu tried to warn Obama of that and the idiot couldn't stop chattering and prancing about stroking himself. Just play back the tapes of Obama and Kerry with their smug, I told you so we are smarter than everyone posturing. Its masturbation to ME warriors. Its shallow self indulgence and the words that come out of Obama's mouth are just leakage of his fluids.

Saudi Arabia will not back down. Neither will Iran. So the question is, will China again indirectly try get its ties with Israel and its new ties to Saudi Arabia and China to find away to back down from Iran if it can get Iran to back down?

Probably not. See how long that sham of a treaty keeps up the pretext for US-Iran normalized relations. Its already falling apart less than a week after it was allegedly signed.

If non-proliferation is an ideal then go with that.

GostHacked · April 9, 2015

Ah yes, another day, another accusation that Israel is spreading a virus. I love this forum. cough. cough.

It is well known in the IT world about the USA's and Israel's involvement with developing the Stuxnet virus which was used on the Iranian nuclear.

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/how-digital-detectives-deciphered-stuxnet/

marcus · April 9, 2015

It is well known in the IT world about the USA's and Israel's involvement with developing the Stuxnet virus which was used on the Iranian nuclear.

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/how-digital-detectives-deciphered-stuxnet/

I don't understand why there is a denial of this. Instead of looking at the well-documented information, any criticism of Israel receives an automatic denial.

Rue · April 9, 2015

I was making a sarcastic reference to Israel being a cancer....relax anti Israeli squadron.

Big Guy · April 10, 2015

This deal appears to be OK with USA, Russia, China, France, the UK and Germany. If it was not then there would not be a tentative deal.

It is not OK with Israel.

So who (besides Israel) cares if it is not OK with Israel?

Edited April 10, 2015 by Big Guy

marcus · April 10, 2015

This deal appears to be OK with USA, Russia, China, France, the UK and Germany. If it was not then there would not be a tentative deal.

It is not OK with Israel.

So who (besides Israel) cares if it is not OK with Israel?

Some Sunni countries, like Saudi are also not OK with the deal. Because they see Iran as an enemy and a competitor.

If for some reason Congress and Senate are able to push to derail the deal involving U.S. sanctions, I have a feeling that other countries will go ahead with lifting their sanctions and in that case, Iran will be in a better position than they are now.

I am curious to see if the situation in Yemen will have a negative impact on the deal. I wonder how active Iran is in Yemen and how true the allegations are.

GostHacked · April 10, 2015

I don't understand why there is a denial of this. Instead of looking at the well-documented information, any criticism of Israel receives an automatic denial.

It was well documented. Antivirus and programming forensics entities had picked it apart and discovered the code was complex and very specific in design. Meaning it could only have state backing with the specific types of systems it was designed to attack.

US/Israel Attacking Iran = Good.

Iran attacking US/Israel = Bad.

This is how it goes.

Je suis Omar · April 10, 2015

I just reflect the reality that you don't want to deal with. There will always be war.

For the foreseeable future, yes, there will always be war. Why? Because, despite all the lies/propaganda to the contrary, the USA is a greedy, rapacious, warring, terrorist nation.

------------

The Secret Wars of the CIA

Excerpts from a talk by John Stockwell

INTRODUCTION

John Stockwell is a 13-year veteran of the CIA and a former U.S. Marine Corps major. He was hired by the CIA in 1964, spent six years working for the CIA in Africa, and was later transferred to Vietnam. In 1973 he received the CIA's Medal of Merit, the Agency's second-highest award. In 1975, Stockwell was promoted to the CIA's Chief of Station and National Security Council coordinator, managing covert activities during the first years of Angola's bloody civil war. After two years he resigned, determined to reveal the truth about the agency's role in the Third World. Since that time, he has worked tirelessly to expose the criminal activities of the CIA. He is the author of In Search of Enemies, an exposé of the CIA's covert action in Angola.

Stockwell is a founding member of Peaceways and ARDIS (the Association for Responsible Dissent), an organization of former CIA and Government officials who are openly critical of the CIA's activities. His latest book is entitled The Praetorian Guard: The U.S. Role in the New World Order.

...

In 1960, we (the USA) came up with a new term, a policy of trying to correct the problems of Central and Latin America -- the economic imbalances -- by addressing them directly. In President Kennedy's famous program he said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable." However, the millions and millions of dollars that we put into this program, inevitably went to the rich, and not to the ordinary people of the countries involved. While we were doing this, or trying -- saying we were trying to correct the problems of Central and Latin America -- the CIA was doing its thing too.

The CIA was, in fact, forming the police units that are, today, the death squads in El Salvador. The leaders were on the CIA's payroll, trained by the CIA in the United States. We had the public safety program going throughout Central and Latin America for twenty-six years, in which we taught them to break up subversion by interrogating people: interrogation, including torture, the way the CIA taught it.

Dan Mitrione, the exponent of these things, spent seven years in Brazil and three in Uruguay, teaching interrogation; teaching torture. He was supposed to be the master of the business: how to apply the right amount of pain, at just the right times, in order to get the response you want from the individual. They gave them crank generators -- with "U.S.A.I.D." written on the side, so the people even knew where these things came from -- and developed a wire that was strong enough to carry the current and fine enough to fit between the teeth, so you could put one wire between the teeth, and the other in or around the genitals. You could crank, and submit the individual to the greatest amount of pain, supposedly, that the human body can register.

Now, how do you teach torture? Someone can teach you about torture, but sooner or later you have to get involved. You have to lay on your hands and try it yourself. They would pick up guinea pigs off the streets: beggars, and take them in to use in these torture training classes. Of course, the horror of that is, these people wouldn't know why they were being tortured. They couldn't give up. They couldn't say: "I'm sorry! Stop the pain! I'll tell you the names of everybody involved!" All they could do was lie there and scream!

When they would collapse, they would bring in doctors who would shoot them up with Vitamin B and rest them up for the next class. And when they would die, they would mutilate the bodies and throw them out on the streets to terrify the population, so that everybody would be afraid of the police and the Government. This is what the CIA was teaching them to do.

One of the women who was in this program for two years -- tortured in Brazil for TWO YEARS -- testified internationally when she eventually got out. She said the most horrible thing about it, in fact, was that the people doing it were not raving psychopaths. She couldn't break mental contact with them the way you could if they were psychopaths. They were very ordinary people.

She told about being tortured one day: She's on this table, naked in a room full of six men, and they're doing these incredibly painful, degrading things to her body. There's an interruption. The American is called to the telephone, and he's in the next room, and the others take a smoke break. She's lying on this table, and he's saying: "Oh, hi Honey. Yes, I can wrap it up here in another hour or so, and meet you and the kids at the Ambassador's on the way home."

There's a lesson in all this. The lesson is:

It isn't just the Gestapo maniacs, or KGB maniacs, who do inhuman things to other people.

It's PEOPLE who do inhuman things to other people.

And we are responsible for doing these things on a massive basis, to people of the world today. We do it in a way that gives us plausible denial to our own consciences. We create a CIA, a secret police, with a vast budget, and let them go and run these programs in our name. We pretend like we don't know what's going on, though the information is there for us to know. And we pretend like it's okay because we're fighting some vague communist threat. We're just as responsible for these ONE TO THREE MILLION PEOPLE we've slaughtered, and for all the people we've tortured and made miserable, as the Gestapo was for the people that they slaughtered and killed. Genocide is genocide !!

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/stock1.html

"It's PEOPLE who do inhuman things to other people."

And who are these PEOPLE, who is it that has had the longest run at this oh so common policy of rape, murder, torture, pillaging but the USA.

Heard any propaganda recently about what a fine, kind, generous nation the USA is?

Edited April 10, 2015 by Je suis Omar

bush_cheney2004 · April 10, 2015

For the foreseeable future, yes, there will always be war. Why? Because, despite all the lies/propaganda to the contrary, the USA is a greedy, rapacious, warring, terrorist nation.

That's right...lead, follow, or get out of the way. And I don't see Canada doing any leading in another direction.

How many more laser guided bombs do you want with that latest order ? Cash or charge ?

Hudson Jones · April 10, 2015

What do majority of Americans think of GOP's (and some Dems), under the instruction of their leader Bibi Netanyahu, aim to kill the the deal?

Poll: Americans Back Iran Deal, Don't Want Congress To Crush It

65 percent of voters don't want Congress to block the deal, compared with 30 percent who do.

Link

Rue · April 11, 2015

Hudson Jones why do you ask ? The device of asking a rhetorical question is pointless. People

are well aware from your demonstrated comments in past posts you are not interested in any opinion but your own and are pro

Iranian.

Some of us are aware of the fact that the agreement you talk of is a sham. We understand it focused on centrifuges and poses that

by capping them at 5,000 Iran can not break out and build a nuke weapon for a year. If Iran had actually needed centrifuges to create nuclear power for domestic energy consumption it would have required a minimum of 20,000 centrifuges. The very fact it agreed to 5,000 shows what its true intention is.

More to the point they have the capacity to make a bomb now and probably already have them. They don't even require 5,000 centrifuges to make a bomb. Its not the number of centrifuges that determines this and its precisely why Iran started bragging after the agreement it has a new way to use less than that number to make a bomb.

Iran since 1984 has been engaged in nuclear weapons capacity. To suggest it has no nuclear weapons and still can't make them is laughable. It took North Korea 8 years with far less equipment than Iran has and North Korea has a military exchange with Iran. It took the US about 3 years with far less material than Iran has to build 2.

The UN reported back in 2004 then in 2007 Iran had capacity to build a bomb but because they had no direct evidence because they could not get any from being disallowed inspections, they could not say so with absolute proof.

To this day no one on this forum knows Iran's true capacity.

The public has relied on two sources; I-being Iran's government news releases, ii- the other being reports from UN inspectors who have were never allowed to visit all its nuclear sites and have had to advise Iran well in advance of any inspection and therefore can only state what they know from what they have been able to see.

Iran has never shown all its nuclear capacity to these inspectors and has openly stated so.

The treaty is not even a treaty yet. It's not even a written agreement. It's simply an agreement to draft an agreement. The US and Iran openly can not even agree as to what they agreed to. Iran is claiming sanctions will be removed immediately, the US says gradually.

There is no enforcement procedure to assure the treaty is in fact followed by Iran. There is not even a definition as to what will constitute a material breach of the treaty.

The treaty never even discussed and therefore limited the manufacturing of ballistic missiles and delivery systems.

The fact is Iran has as we speak has had sufficient uranium to build nuclear bombs since the early 200O'o. It obtained sufficient quantities from Russia years ago. That is public fact and Russia admitted this. Its no secret.

What is even more insulting is for people to believe North Korea would not have provided Iran nuclear weapons and assisted it create their own.

Obama is a man who openly touted Yemen as his example of a terrorist free harmonized Muslim kingdom of Sunni and Shiite living together happily.

Let's look at his track record. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen.Wrong,wrong, wrong and wrong. This is someone who told Putin in his first term in office he would provide him with all the missile sites in Britain of their nuclear missiles unilaterally without British consent, if Putin would sign a deal with him.

This is someone who told Israel he would never expect them to negotiate with Hamas as long as it remained armed and then after his second election declared Hamas no longer terrorist and a legitimate political party that did not need to disarm. This is a man who told Netanyahu he would never ask him to withdraw to 1967 borders without Hamas and other terrorists disarming first, then once elected his second term, demanding Israel do just that.

This is a man who sent John Kerry to Jerusalem to sabotage a peace treaty between Hamas and Israel drafted by Egypt and supported by the PA only to drag the war on 4 more weeks before the very same provisions were accepted by Hamas after so many more died.

This is a man who told Netanyahu he understood that it was an integral part of a pace settlement to have Hamas, the PA and the Arab League recognize Israel's right to be a Jewish state, then after being elected a second term, stating Israel was unreasonable expecting his.

This is someone who told Israel he would never expect them to agree to anything that jeopardized their security and therefore understood why sanctions were needed on Iran, while it now turns out at the same time, secretly agreed with Iran to remove the sanctions.

This is a man who openly threatened to shoot down Israeli fighter jets if they approached Iran to knock out its sites and disclosed intelligence data on their military to Iran.

This is a man who has told the world, the treaty has no enforcement procedures and is 100% dependent on Iran voluntarily agreeing on its own with goodwill to follow the agreement and while saying that, Iran was invading Yemen and during negotiations telling the Arab world in press releases and on the radio and tv that it was arming Hamas on the West Bank, and another war to remove the Jewish state of Israel was being prepared for and ending the Jewish state as being Jewish was not negotiable.

This is someone who told Israel, the nuclear agreement was not a peace deal so Israel should not expect Iran to recognize it.

This is the same Obama who welcomes Iran and Hezbollah claiming Hezbollah now are no longer terrorists.

This is a man who demanded Egypt follow the people's will in their uprising while supporting Iran as it crushed its people's uprising.

This is a man who refused to assist France fight Al Quaeda in Mali, will not comment on the Boca Raton attacks in Nigeria or the continuing genocide in Syria which his half brother finances.His half brother and chief fundraiser for the Muslim Brotherhood who finances the Sudanese military crushing and continuing a genocide of Christians in South Sudan.

This is a man whose family in Kenya is directly tied to the Muslim Brotherhood there which is tied to the terrorists in Somalia now attacking Kenya.

This is a man who has told the world that Muslim extremists are not Muslims and refused to participate in the peace walk in Paris and said the attacks were not done by Muslims and then went further and said Jews were not deliberately attacked, it was just random, and on clarification stated they weren't selected for being Jews, it was just they were the first people found.

Iran is a nation Obama described as rational and to be trusted. Yes the same country whose Muslim council meets once a year to discuss the return of the Messiah and openly states as part of its religious beliefs that it must destroy the West in an a showdown for the messiah to return and continues to openly preach that the US is a Satan nation.

Yes and Obama finds Iran rational.

This is a nation openly at war on the ground against Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain.

This is a nation so volatile that even Obama's closest ally Turkey has distanced itself from Iran now. Turkey in a war against Syria and Shiite Hezbollah the proxy of Iran now finds itself watching as Obama embraces Hezbollah.

There is not one country allied with Obama that has not had him turn on them and that includes, Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Saudi Arabia,egypt,Kuwait, the UAE, Jordan.

You do remember Jordan? The no.1 opposition in Jordan is the very Muslim Brotherhood Obama supports.

His legacy now is to set in motion a war by Iran and Hezbollah against all the enemies of the Muslim Brotherhood,namely the Sunni monarchies and Israel.He believes after the chaos ensues and he is long gone from office, Muslim Brotherhood groups will be able to wrestle control away from all these nations weakened by war from Iran.

Iran knows it, all these countries know it, and the American population knows it.

He will be thrown out of office but by the time he goes, the chaos he leaves behind will be left to the next President to deal with no differently than Bill Clinton created a farse of a nuclear treaty with North Korea leaving it to unravel as soon as he left office dumped on Bush's lap..

This Iranian farse is no different than what Bill Clinton did with North Korea. The treaty is a sham, will be violated at will forcing the next President to do the dirty work and order a bombing to save face.

Thank you Barry.

But you cheer it on Hudson Jones. Its set the stag now for a bombing not just by Israel but the US and perhaps NATO as well.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Rue

Argus · April 11, 2015

What do majority of Americans think of GOP's (and some Dems), under the instruction of their leader Bibi Netanyahu, aim to kill the the deal?

Poll: Americans Back Iran Deal, Don't Want Congress To Crush It

65 percent of voters don't want Congress to block the deal, compared with 30 percent who do.

Link

It's interesting that the premise of the survey was that there was a deal to be crushed since that is pretty clearly not the case. Everything the US has said about the "deal" is completely different from everything Iran has said about it. Unless someone backtracks A LOT there is no deal to be signed.

Big Guy · April 12, 2015

Fareed Zakaria has posted an interesting point of view in the Washington Post.

There are many critics of this tentative deal between Iran and the West that are arguing that it will not work because they feel Iranians are "irrational" or just plain nuts! These are the same people that say that continued sanctions would put additional squeeze on Iran to stop their nuclear ambitions.

But for sanctions to work, the Iranians must be rational enough to consider and evaluate that the sanctions are more of a liability than nuclear weapons are an asset.

So are Iranians irrational and nuts or are they rational and logical?

jacee · April 12, 2015

Netanyahu told cabinet: Our biggest fear is that Iran will honor nuclear deal

By Barak Ravid

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at a recent meeting of the security cabinet that if a comprehensive nuclear agreement between Iran and the six world powers is indeed signed by the June 30 deadline, the greatest concern is that Tehran will fully implement it without violations, two senior Israeli officials said.

The full text is available for subscribers.

GostHacked · April 13, 2015

Netanyahu told cabinet: Our biggest fear is that Iran will honor nuclear deal

By Barak Ravid

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at a recent meeting of the security cabinet that if a comprehensive nuclear agreement between Iran and the six world powers is indeed signed by the June 30 deadline, the greatest concern is that Tehran will fully implement it without violations, two senior Israeli officials said.

The full text is available for subscribers.

So Israel want's a deal, Iran may go for it, and that STILL upsets Israel? I don't get it.

Rue · April 13, 2015

You don't get it Ghost hacked? Yah I could have told you that.

Israel stated from the get go it would participate in a deal directly with Iran. Iran refused. Did it not dawn on you Israel was never part of the alleged treaty discussion? Did that just seem to zip by you? Come on Ghost.

Israel was not there because Iran will not recognize its right to exist as a Jewish state and at the end of February and first two weeks of March during these negotiations engaged in over 15 press conferences with Hamas and Hezbollah broadcast around the Arab world declaring it was arming Hamas on the West Bank for a new war to liberate Israel and liberating Israel was NON negotiable.

Where were you?

You don't get it?

Tell me. Here is Iran telling the world it has the capacity to blow up Israel already and demonstrating on Tehran t.v. broadcast to the Arab world duringn negotations a simulated attack on Tel Aviv. There was the head of Iran saying Iran will never accept a Jewish state and considers itself at war to remove that Jewish state, during negotiations and you don't get it? Oh come on get satellite t.v. and watch the news from Tehran or just watch Al Brasiere or however its spelled.

There is Obama at the end of the discussions saying to Netanyahu, get real Bibi, why would we ask Iran to recognize Israel-this is no peace treaty... and you don't get it?

What is there to get? You have an alleged agreement to now draft a treaty by the end of June. The US is saying one thing, Iran the exact opposite on the things Obama says they agreed to.

There is no definition of what constitutes a material breach of the treaty. There is no enforcement procedure that allows inspectors to investigate all of Iran's nuclear sites and leaves it totally to Iran to decide where and when to allow inspections.

The entire discussion centered around centrifuge capacity of 5,000 which is not enough to make the very domestic energy Iran said it needed. The 5,000 centrifuge cap is absolutely not relevant to the ability to make a bomb and the estimate the treaty only slows down the ability to make a bomb is a guess and assumes there are no bombs at this time.

Iran has had sufficient uranium ore and technology to have built a-bombs since the late 1989's according to the UN and itself.

We are to believe that Iran since the early 1980's never obtained or made any nuke bombs.

The uranium ore Iran has today is quite capable of making thousands of dirty bombs, i.e., radioactive fall out bombs.

Iran has sufficient chemical weapons to wipe out Israel.

What is there to get?

It is absurd to think Obama is in any position to tell Israel to trust him that he would protect Israel when Obama repeatedly has lied to Israel and sided and empowered Israel's enemies including Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIL, and the Muslim Brotherhood, let alone the anti Israeli Morsi and anti Israeli Erdogan both who openly made anti semtiic speeches and anti Christian speeches.

This is the same Obama who told Israel he would never support any terrorist organization that wants to destroy Israel, removing them from the terrorist list and calling them a legitimate peace party to negotiations. He did the same with Hezbollah and ISIL and in the case of ISIL they only became inconvenient after they turned on him

This is the same Obama who said to Israel hey man I would never ask you to withdraw to 1967 borders without asking terrorists to disarm first, lying through his teeth and removing Hamas from the terror list, saying there is no reason to disarm them and have them recognize Israel as a Jewish state and when asks why would Israel withdraw to borders that would make it easier for Hamas to destry them said, hey man, Netanyahu is a chicken shit because he won't expose himself to Hamas.

You don't get it? Of course not.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Rue

jacee · April 14, 2015

So Israel want's a deal, Iran may go for it, and that STILL upsets Israel? I don't get it.

Israel doesn't want peace, IMO.

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jacee · April 14, 2015

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Iran has sufficient chemical weapons to wipe out Israel.

What does Israel have rue?

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Rue · April 14, 2015

For starters, some very attractive women Jacee. Why do you ask?

Argus · April 15, 2015

IUS/Israel Attacking Iran = Good.

Iran attacking US/Israel = Bad.

This is how it goes.

That might be because the US is a free democracy while Iran is a brutal theocratic dictatorship.

In 1982, I was arrested at the age of 16 in Tehran. I was a student activist born in a Christian family, and I didn’t like the fact that Iran’s revolutionary regime not only did not deliver any political freedoms, but also it took away the personal freedoms of Iranians. We protested, and many of my teenage friends and I were arrested. I was tortured and was forced to convert to Islam and “marry” one of my interrogators under the threat that if I didn’t, my family would be harmed. My so-called husband, Ali, raped me over and over again. I became pregnant at 17, but I miscarried. After 2 years, 2 months, and 12 days in Evin prison, I was released and returned home. My father had already disowned me. My boyfriend, Andre, told me that even if I had come home with a baby in my arms, he would still have wanted to marry me. I was grateful to him. With Andre’s support, I survived, and we made it to Canada. Many of my friends were not so lucky; they are buried in mass graves in Iran.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/irans-regime-and-is-are-two-sides-of-the-same-medieval-coin/article23965259/

Shady · April 15, 2015

Looks like Obama was dealt a blow from congress regarding his "historic" deal. The senate foreign relations committee voted 19-0 for any deal to be cleared by the senate. Half of the 19 are democrats.