Toronto's UP Express

[Boges]

This is what's wrong with government.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-s-union-pearson-express-new-airport-train-revealed-1.2987103

2. How much will it cost?

Adults will pay $27.50, but there are significant price breaks for paying with a Presto card — the reloadable transit payment card already used at many transit stations and vehicles across the GTA. The TTC and Metrolinx are working to expand Presto use.

Other fares from Union to the airport break down as follows:

• Student (13 to 19 years) $23.40 ($16.15 Presto).
• Senior (65+ years) $23.40 ($16.15 Presto).
• Child (Six to 12 years of age) $13.75 or $9.50 Presto).
• Family (Two adults and up to three children under 18) $55 (same for Presto).

Fares are slightly cheaper for trips that start or terminate from either Bloor or Weston stations.

This is the LCBOification of rapid transit. Just about every LCBO you go into looks like a high-end boutique even if you're there to buy a 6er of Bud Light. They want buying alcohol to seem to be a luxury experience because they're forcing you to pay huge prices.

Toronto needed a way to ferry commuters from Union Station to the Airport (in nearby Mississauga). Most major cities have such a system. But why didn't they find a way to tap into the, already existing, transit service.

All they needed was a way for people to use GO or TTC to get to Malton. BUT NO!!!!! We're hosting the PAN AM games in 2015 so we need to build a high end boutique train line that no one will use after the Pan Am games. It costs $10-$15 to use GO to get from the burbs into Union. But it costs $27 to get to the airport from Union.

I wonder what it would have cost to extend a GO train Line from Union to Pearson? Probably a lot cheaper then what they did.

The $28 is meant to cater to the "corporate" consumer. Why wouldn't those consumers just use a $60 cab. They could use it at their leisure and they wouldn't be saddled with the inconvenience of having to get to the central train station.

This is going to be a gigantic boondoggle. Yet another this Ontario government will have to wear.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Boges

[Black Dog]

It's cheaper than a cab for an individual, but if it's two people or more, yeah, a cab is the way to go.

[Boges]

It's cheaper than a cab for an individual, but if it's two people or more, yeah, a cab is the way to go.

A cab will pick you up at your house and/or hotel though.

[Ash74]

If baffles me the mentality of it. Lets build this billion dollar project so we can help ease congestion but still make it cheaper and convenient to take a cab if there is two or more of you. IF you want to get people to use transit there has to be a good side to it. Like the price or hassle.

Metrolinx has been the ORNGE of the transit community and the Liberals are still singing their praises.

[Bob Macadoo]

If baffles me the mentality of it. Lets build this billion dollar project so we can help ease congestion but still make it cheaper and convenient to take a cab if there is two or more of you. IF you want to get people to use transit there has to be a good side to it. Like the price or hassle.

Metrolinx has been the ORNGE of the transit community and the Liberals are still singing their praises.

It wasn't going to alleviate traffic.......just a photo-op of a "modern" city for the olympic watchers.

[Ash74]

It wasn't going to alleviate traffic.......just a photo-op of a "modern" city for the olympic watchers.

Fair enough. Any hope for the Olympics will be crushed by the traffic chaos that is the Pan Am Games. I do not fault anybody for that. GTA traffic is just a plague that is strangling the whole area

[Bob Macadoo]

It's going to be chaos.....events are everywhere.....traffic clogs everywhere.....nothing to do with getting to Pearson......which IMO will be the only clog-free route.

[Ash74]

It's going to be chaos.....events are everywhere.....traffic clogs everywhere.....nothing to do with getting to Pearson......which IMO will be the only clog-free route.

It will be show behind the show. Expect big smiles by all levels of government but what we will see behind them is miles and miles of traffic jams

[LemonPureLeaf]

Why live in the GTA at all? Its such a dump. I travel to the area every few months for work and its such a dirty dingy area to work. Nevermind live. Just leave the area and live somewhere pleasant.

[The_Squid]

This makes the Skytrain in Vacouver look great!

$27 for a 25 minute trip? LOL

$5 for the Skytrain from downtown to YVR.

http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Canada-Line-YVR-AddFare.aspx

Edited March 11, 2015 by The_Squid

[Michael Hardner]

It's going to be chaos.....events are everywhere.....traffic clogs everywhere.....nothing to do with getting to Pearson......which IMO will be the only clog-free route.

Advice:

Get a cheap place downtown and start walking

Learn the backstreets when driving

Take a cab to a backstreet 3 blocks away from your destination

Take the subway where possible, never at rush hour in the direction of the commuters

[Black Dog]

A cab will pick you up at your house and/or hotel though.

If that's worth an extra $25 to you, go nuts.

[Boges]

If that's worth an extra $25 to you, go nuts.

The point I've heard made is that the type of clientele that this thing is supposed to cater to probably aren't even paying for their own travel costs, they're just expensing it.

So why take your bags on the bus or subway to Union only to get on ANOTHER train to Pearson? A cab will just take you to the terminal gate.

[Black Dog]

The point I've heard made is that the type of clientele that this thing is supposed to cater to probably aren't even paying for their own travel costs, they're just expensing it.

So why take your bags on the bus or subway to Union only to get on ANOTHER train to Pearson? A cab will just take you to the terminal gate.

Point I'm making is for me personally, the UP express makes a little bit more sense if I'm traveling alone.

FTR I think it's a complete boondoggle-in-waiting as well.

[overthere]

WORLD CLASS

[Boges]

LOL

This would be so sad if it wasn't also so funny.

The Ontario Liberal government is beyond incompetent.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/02/23/upx-to-slash-fare-by-more-than-half.html

Fares on the underused Union Pearson Express (UPX) train will as of March 9 be cut by more than half — down to $9 from $19 with a Presto card, or to $12 from $27.50 without one.

Also, in a bid to fill empty seats, commuters hopping aboard the airport train at Bloor and Weston stations will pay the same as GO riders — $4.71 for a single stop, $5.02 for two stops.

“We’re lowering fares to attract riders,” said a Toronto Star source.

High ticket prices have drawn the ire of government critics and transit-hungry commuters frustrated at watching empty trains (which cost $456 million in provincial funding to build) speed up and down the Kitchener GO tracks both ways every 15 minutes.

After the latest figures showed ridership was falling six months after the train’s June launch, Premier Kathleen Wynne signalled that it was time for a rethink.

The train hit a monthly high of 79,010 riders in October but plunged to only 65,593 the following month.

Metrolinx repeatedly pleaded for patience, saying it would take at least three years to reach the 7,000 daily riders required for the service to break even. But in December only about 2,200 people a day were boarding UPX, which takes 25 minutes to travel between Union Station and Pearson.

[The_Squid]

Rapid transit from YYZ (or any big airport) to downtown is a must. The Skytrain from YVR to downtown Vancouver has been a huge success.

Those fares certainly seem excessive. I think it has always been ~7 bucks for Skytrain to YVR, which is more than taking the Skytrain elsewhere.

[cybercoma]

As a tangent, I'm surprised we don't have a bullet train in the Windsor-Montreal corridor yet.

[Boges]

As a tangent, I'm surprised we don't have a bullet train in the Windsor-Montreal corridor yet.

Doesn't VIA do that?

The cost to build such a rail link would make the cost of using it more expensive than flying or using the 401.

[The_Squid]

As a tangent, I'm surprised we don't have a bullet train in the Windsor-Montreal corridor yet.

Trudeau gov't should build that sort of infrastructure.

[Smallc]

Trudeau gov't should build that sort of infrastructure.

Well - Ontario wants the proposal on the table by fall for the London to Toronto part of that (via KCW). Given the close relationship between Trudeau and Wynne, I suspect there's a reason for that.

From what I hear, London to Toronto high speed rail would be a game changer for the tech sector in Ontario.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Smallc

[overthere]

I am so excited at the prospect of pouring billions in taxpayer money into getting people to work 10 minutes faster in Toronto.

It is in The National Interest.

[Boges]

I am so excited at the prospect of pouring billions in taxpayer money into getting people to work 10 minutes faster in Toronto.

It is in The National Interest.

This isn't a commuter train. It's meant to get people into the airport, not to work (I guess if you work at the airport). The revisions to the plan allow people from 2 stations in Toronto's West End to use it as a commuter train.

[Smallc]

I am so excited at the prospect of pouring billions in taxpayer money into getting people to work 10 minutes faster in Toronto.

High speed rail between London and Toronto would allow travel times of about 1 hour from London and 1/2 an hour from KCW. It would also allow people to use the train rather than the 401. We're not talking a 10 minute difference.

[Boges]

Metrolinx is a dumpster fire of an organization. I wouldn't trust them to organize a birthday party.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/16/metrolinx-ignored-advice-about-up-express-fares

Metrolinx appears to have ignored seven detailed reports it commissioned in the years before the launch of the UP Express which warned the fares it eventually set were too high to attract enough riders.

Financial projections in the documents, which Metrolinx has fought to keep secret since 2014, were provided to the Toronto Sun Friday night after a two-year battle.

They show a series of consultant studies and polls warned the transit agency over and over again that its plan to charge $27.50 for a train ride between Union Station and Pearson airport would be unpopular. Several of the reports also say the $10 fare for airport employees wouldn’t work.

The reports indicate a $10-$15 price point would be ideal. Earlier this year, Metrolinx was forced to slash one-way fares to $12 when ridership tanked months after the June 2015 launch.

Metrolinx couldn’t immediately say how much taxpayer cash was spent on the reports.

Just completely ignore report and then you have a train that's 90% empty.