Spiderfish Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Obviously you have bought into what Harper is selling here, that certainly isnt difficult. People have been led down the garden path en masse before. I suggest a lot of people buy it without really studying it, or by listening to many legal pros who have raised any a red flag over this bill. My observation is not in regards to the bill itself, but in regards to your arrogant assumption that the majority of Canadians are generally misinformed and stupid because they don't share your Orwellian predictions that you believe are an inevitable result of the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 ... but in regards to your arrogant assumption that the majority of Canadians are generally misinformed and stupid because... Well, they are for the most part. Aint nothing new to be honest. They are stupid ignorant because they havent spent anytime finding out what it can or potentially can mean to their rights and what powers are granted. Not because they agree or disagree with anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 My observation is not in regards to the bill itself, but in regards to your arrogant assumption that the majority of Canadians are generally misinformed and stupid because they don't share your Orwellian predictions that you believe are an inevitable result of the bill. The only thing Orwellian here is the bill itself. Or perhaps you dont comprehend the term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) The only thing Orwellian here is the bill itself. Or perhaps you dont comprehend the term. you're in a tiny minority of people who oppose this bill compared to those that support it. Its going to pass. Nothing you or the left of this board can do about it.Maybe you can try to get Mulcair to be elected PM and repeal it Who knows. Until then stop going on about it. Its like a broken record. Its tiresome Edited March 13, 2015 by LemonPureLeaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 you're in a tiny minority of people who oppose this bill compared to those that support it. Its going to pass. Nothing you or the left of this board can do about it. Maybe you can try to get Mulcair to be elected PM and repeal it Who knows. Until then stop going on about it. Its like a broken record. Its tiresome Um, go back to the top of the page and read what this thread is about. If you dont like getting your opinions challenged, then I suggest you stop bothering to post here (speaking of tiring) As has been stated, we dont have to elect anybody to snub this bill, the SC will in all likelihood repeal the non constitutional parts of it. But of course there is a lot of wasted time and money in that process, which we see to continue to have to do with Harpers bills. (speaking of tiring) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Um, go back to the top of the page and read what this thread is about. If you dont like getting your opinions challenged, then I suggest you stop bothering to post here (speaking of tiring) As has been stated, we dont have to elect anybody to snub this bill, the SC will in all likelihood repeal the non constitutional parts of it. But of course there is a lot of wasted time and money in that process, which we see to continue to have to do with Harpers bills. (speaking of tiring). If that happens it only fuels and motivates people to vote for PM Harper. The longer this goes on the less likely it looks like the Liberals are ready to lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 . If that happens it only fuels and motivates people to vote for PM Harper. The longer this goes on the less likely it looks like the Liberals are ready to lead. So you think Canadians will be more inclined to vote for someone who continually tries to enact laws that subvert the constitution. And at the same timey post your comments that suggest I think Canadians are stupid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 So you think Canadians will be more inclined to vote for someone who continually tries to enact laws that subvert the constitution. And at the same timey post your comments that suggest I think Canadians are stupid... the vast majority of Canadians don't share your attitude. They don't see it as a removal of rights at all. Its about our PM trying to protect Canada from the threats which we face in today's world.Canada majority don't have any sympathy and don't see terrorists as victims like the left wing does. The majority of Canada doesn't want terrorists coddled like the left does. Nor does the majority of Canadians want roving bands of Muslims clad in black sacks of cloth controlling areas of the city. Those aren't Canadian values. The left values all cultures but the most of Canada sees some cultural practices as not wanted in Canada. Not needed. If some people don't like and respect our values and traditions then we don't have to respect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 the vast majority of Canadians don't share your attitude. They don't see it as a removal of rights at all. Its about our PM trying to protect Canada from the threats which we face in today's world. Canada majority don't have any sympathy and don't see terrorists as victims like the left wing does. The majority of Canada doesn't want terrorists coddled like the left does. Nor does the majority of Canadians want roving bands of Muslims clad in black sacks of cloth controlling areas of the city. Those aren't Canadian values. The left values all cultures but the most of Canada sees some cultural practices as not wanted in Canada. Not needed. If some people don't like and respect our values and traditions then we don't have to respect them. Your assumptions about coddling terrorists etc. are as ludicrous as ever. At least you are consistent. I will make you a bet though that as more Canadians actually become familiar with the bill, they will at least want added oversight as protection to our human rights. Theres your first and biggest clue as to why Harper is limiting debate and ramming this bill as fast as his little feet will take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Your assumptions about coddling terrorists etc. are as ludicrous as ever. At least you are consistent. I will make you a bet though that as more Canadians actually become familiar with the bill, they will at least want added oversight as protection to our human rights. Theres your first and biggest clue as to why Harper is limiting debate and ramming this bill as fast as his little feet will take him. .Trudeau and Chretien were the masters of ramming bills through. Harper learned from them.Oversight is contained within the bill. Its very clear in its scope The bill is very well researched and gives our agencies the ability to share information which is sorely needed. This bill provides that. Canada needs our support. Supporting this bill means you support Canada. Perhaps some people would be happier is they found a different country to live in if Canada isn't to their liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 .Trudeau and Chretien were the masters of ramming bills through. Harper learned from them. Oversight is contained within the bill. Its very clear in its scope The bill is very well researched and gives our agencies the ability to share information which is sorely needed. This bill provides that. Canada needs our support. Supporting this bill means you support Canada. Perhaps some people would be happier is they found a different country to live in if Canada isn't to their liking. Harper learned from Preston Manning, who by the way, has now also turned on him, in various ways, as has Joe Clark who has signed on with 3 other former PMs to criticize this bill. Suggesting there is anything near oversight in this bill indicates you have a serious lack of knowledge of the bill as written. Your simple little flagpole statement about support for the bill and therefore Canada indicates same, and is equally as irritating is the repetitive talking points the Harper drones spew day after day. If you dont approve of the constitution of this country, perhaps move away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 My observation is not in regards to the bill itself, but in regards to your arrogant assumption that the majority of Canadians are generally misinformed and stupid because they don't share your Orwellian predictions that you believe are an inevitable result of the bill.I still recall the arrogant scorn when making predictions that Orwellian shit like C-51 would be the inevitable result of doing stupid things like invading Iraq and blowing up kids and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Harper learned from Preston Manning, who by the way, has now also turned on him, in various ways, as has Joe Clark who has signed on with 3 other former PMs to criticize this bill. Suggesting there is anything near oversight in this bill indicates you have a serious lack of knowledge of the bill as written. Your simple little flagpole statement about support for the bill and therefore Canada indicates same, and is equally as irritating is the repetitive talking points the Harper drones spew day after day. If you dont approve of the constitution of this country, perhaps move away. PET and Chretien would often shut down debate and ram bills through. They were both dictators effectively.The bill has adequite oversight. It appears the left is representing the bill as having no oversight. Its simply not true. The bill, as it stands has oversight included. Truth is that a large majority of Canadians support the bill. The left seems to treat their fellow Canadians as idiots or like children who aren't to be trusted to support anything. The left just can't believe that such widespread support could be for something PM Harper is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 PET and Chretien would often shut down debate and ram bills through. They were both dictators effectively. The bill has adequite oversight. It appears the left is representing the bill as having no oversight. Its simply not true. The bill, as it stands has oversight included. Truth is that a large majority of Canadians support the bill. The left seems to treat their fellow Canadians as idiots or like children who aren't to be trusted to support anything. The left just can't believe that such widespread support could be for something PM Harper is doing. Well you are just chasing your tail now. Fact is it doesnt have the oversight the increase in powers provided, especially to CSIS, should have as a balance to uphold our charter rights. Ill state it one more time, it will fall on its own sword, and at least be largely amended, at the SC level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Well you are just chasing your tail now. Fact is it doesnt have the oversight the increase in powers provided, especially to CSIS, should have as a balance to uphold our charter rights. Ill state it one more time, it will fall on its own sword, and at least be largely amended, at the SC level. The bill contains adequite oversight. Its obvious it does. No problem there.If the SC kills it prepare for a massive upswing in the undecided voting for Harper again. It will make terrorism an election issue and Mulcair is seen as being indifferent to Muslim terror. Meanwhile the shiny pony is like a deer in the headlights. Its quite obvious that Canada needs bill C51 in order to protect her from terrorists foreign and domestic. This bill delivers on all fronts. Muslim terrorists are not our friends. The left thinks they just need a hug then they will be beer drinking, hockey loving Canadians. Nevermind that they aren't interested in our way of life. Just ask France if the Muslims are just misunderstood creatures. Bill C51 is a measured approach to terror related issues facing Canada. We have Muslims killing people for drawing cartoons. We have abo's blocking train tracks. We have others plotting to blow up pipelines. Canada has a serious terror problem. Edited March 13, 2015 by LemonPureLeaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The bill contains adequite oversight. Its obvious it does. No problem there. If the SC kills it prepare for a massive upswing in the undecided voting for Harper again. It will make terrorism an election issue and Mulcair is seen as being indifferent to Muslim terror. Meanwhile the shiny pony is like a deer in the headlights. Its quite obvious that Canada needs bill C51 in order to protect her from terrorists foreign and domestic. This bill delivers on all fronts. Muslim terrorists are not our friends. The left thinks they just need a hug then they will be beer drinking, hockey loving Canadians. Nevermind that they aren't interested in our way of life. Just ask France if the Muslims are just misunderstood creatures. Bill C51 is a measured approach to terror related issues facing Canada. We have Muslims killing people for drawing cartoons. We have abo's blocking train tracks. We have others plotting to blow up pipelines. Canada has a serious terror problem. Yeah there is a problem with the lack of oversight. Sorry. And no, its far from obvious C51 will protect us from anything. Sorry.And if you knew anything about how things really work in the real world, you would know the SC wont get a chance to kill the bill before the ext election Believe me Harper does know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I find it funny the privacy commissioner can not testify at the hearings......and by funny I mean telling... The witnesses yesterday laid out cogently exactly why this bill is messed up from the contraventions of the charter, to the inadequate funding in the budget, to the jurisdictional conflicts between CSIS/RCMP, as in the kind that led to 9/11 in the US and the ministerial individual decision making for no-fly lists (which were shown to be a problem when it wasn't at political whims). Opponents of the bill have identified the good (increased bond powers, etc.)......why can't the gov't come together with others on this? Is the election rhetoric really that needed for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The majority of Canada doesn't want terrorists coddled like the left does. Nor does the majority of Canadians want roving bands of Muslims clad in black sacks of cloth controlling areas of the city. Those aren't Canadian values. Oh really ? Because, I mean... WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT ? Seriously, though, there are aspects to these security bills that are practical ( it seems to me ) but if the support for them is rooted in the wackiest paranoia then people will question them, and will be driven to the Liberals. They seem to be able to put forward a policy that supports security enhancements, but doesn't kowtow to the doomsday cult mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah there is a problem with the lack of oversight. Sorry. And no, its far from obvious C51 will protect us from anything. Sorry.And if you knew anything about how things really work in the real world, you would know the SC wont get a chance to kill the bill before the ext election Believe me Harper does know that. The opposition has to only claim that they will push for it to be put in front of the SCC. That will be enough to let the PM plant the seeds of suspicion within the public mind that the opposition cannot protect them as well as the Tories can. Sounds like a reasonable strategy doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Oh really ? Because, I mean... WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT ? Seriously, though, there are aspects to these security bills that are practical ( it seems to me ) but if the support for them is rooted in the wackiest paranoia then people will question them, and will be driven to the Liberals. They seem to be able to put forward a policy that supports security enhancements, but doesn't kowtow to the doomsday cult mentality. . I don't know for sure but since the support for this bill is so widespread I could stipulate that support would come from many sectors of thought. Its only logical to see it as such. Some opinion that can be seen on just about any internet comment area would call Islam itself a "doomsday cult" or "death cult". This line of thought isn't unfounded given current events. Is it fair to tar the entire religion? No but Islam hasn't done enough to dissuade those people either. The bill appears to give better information sharing between the RCMP and CSIS. So people should be able to support that, surely. Not many people would support terrorism as written in the new bill. So its a good thing that police can have expanded powers to help protect Canadians. Good, wholesome Canadians wouldn't be out participating in "terrorist" actions. They would be at home with their families or with friends and not out planning to carry out actions against the crown. I hope that my fellow Canadians will be able to see this bill for what it is. A non partisan attempt to protect Canada and Canadians from terrorism, foreign and domestic. A vote for C51 is a vote for Canada. I urge you all to choose Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I hope that my fellow Canadians will be able to see this bill for what it is. A non partisan attempt to protect Canada and Canadians from terrorism, foreign and domestic. A vote for C51 is a vote for Canada. I urge you all to choose Canada. Nothing is non-partisan, you should know that by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 PET and Chretien would often shut down debate and ram bills through. They were both dictators effectively. By your own logic, then so is Harper. Its quite obvious that Canada needs bill C51 in order to protect her from terrorists foreign and domestic. It is certainly not. Canada has a serious terror problem. Apparently, since there are so many people like you living in a state of terror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 The opposition has to only claim that they will push for it to be put in front of the SCC. That will be enough to let the PM plant the seeds of suspicion within the public mind that the opposition cannot protect them as well as the Tories can. Sounds like a reasonable strategy doesn't it? It sounds like a typical Harper strategy for sure. But in such cases the SCC doesnt need anyone to push an unconstitutional law in front of them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Nope no fearmongering or cynicism here, nosiree. In the first hour of testimony at Thursday’s review of the government’s anti-terrorism bill, Conservative MPs posed only one question. "Are you fundamentally opposed to taking terrorists off the streets?" Conservative MP Rick Norlock asked Carmen Cheung of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association — an echo of former public security minister Vic Toews’s "stand with us or with the child pornographers" statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 It appears the best defence to this bill is to let Conservatives ask queston after question to people giving testimony. The MP's doing so appear like complete idiots and small town xenophobes. http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/morans.jpg&imgrefurl=http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p%3D35893&h=250&w=340&tbnid=B44Yu6FXtfEKkM:&zoom=1&docid=RIS8okZwd9HIhM&ei=MBcDVaumI8KYgwTij4HYBw&tbm=isch&ved=0CCsQMygCMAI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.