cybercoma Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Outside of the actual founding of the nation and the elimination of slavery, you mean?And illegally refusing to sit at the back of the bus.....and speakeasies and bootleggers......and pot smokers all over the place. Yeah. Violence and lawbreaking has no place in political reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) jacee ... To suggest that protesters blocking a road would after Bill C51 now be labelled ipso facto as terrorists and that PM Harper would advocate water boarding of such people or of anyone else is crazy talk. Can he do it under Bill C 51?Only "lawful" protest exempts protesters from the Anti-terror Act. Blocking a road is not "lawful". Will he do it...? If you don't realize this, my sincere advice to you and also my hope for you is that you secure professional help. As for me, I am not going to waste my time replying to crazy talk albeit that others may indulge you in this regard. Good luck, Madam. ComOrg: You're new here. Personal insults aren't allowed. If you don't want to reply, don't. Do CSIS officers wear badge numbers? Edited February 28, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Before this bill becomes law, the Harper government will make amendments which will include more (and possibly bipartisan parliamentary) oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Before this bill becomes law, the Harper government will make amendments which will include more (and possibly bipartisan parliamentary) oversight.Since he got a majority Harper has never agreed to amend anything, not even a spelling mistake.Only if Conservative voters enmasse put some constraints on him ... Maybe. Or the Party ... But then they'll be on his enemies list. . Edited February 28, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Before this bill becomes law, the Harper government will make amendments which will include more (and possibly bipartisan parliamentary) oversight. Perhaps you havent been listening to him or his wind up toys. They all say no to all that and they have shut down the discussion and they have the majority to ram it through .Its nice to be optimistic, but better to be realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted February 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I'd put a Sunset Clause as a higher priority than changes to oversight. I'm hopeful the government will provide a 5 year one. That would mean if there were any abuses - as the critics are terrified of - there would be ample ammunition to repeal or modify the legislation. Oversight is a complex undertaking that has worked reasonably well for more than a decade. Even if we had reasons to do so, it would take a lot of time and effort to evaluate and design a new oversight mechanism. It's almost a moot point because the critics on this forum give absolutely no chance to Harper being re-elected. Edited February 28, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 It's almost a moot point because the critics on this forum give absolutely no chance to Harper being re-elected. That's wrong. I've been saying and still think Harper will get re-elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted February 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 That's wrong. I've been saying and still think Harper will get re-elected. OK - that's good news for those who want him re-elected - or don't want the Libs or NDP. Jacee and On Guard should have no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I'd put a Sunset Clause as a higher priority than changes to oversight. I'm hopeful the government will provide a 5 year one.By which time Harper will be gone. Convenient for him.No, we are not waiting 5 years while massive violations of human rights occur. That would mean if there were any abuses - as the critics are terrified of - there would be ample ammunition to repeal or modify the legislation.Nobody's "terrified". Just determined. And we are not waiting 5 years to correct illegal, unconstitutional legislation. Harper must refer Bill C51 to the Supreme Court now for a ruling. Oversight is a complex undertaking that has worked reasonably well for more than a decade. Even if we had reasons to do so, it would take a lot of time and effort to evaluate and design a new oversight mechanism.I see. Canadians' Constitutional rights cannot be upheld because it's too much work. Good argument. not. :/ Whatever we're paying you to come here as Harper's propaganda puppet, it's too much. It's almost a moot point because the critics on this forum give absolutely no chance to Harper being re-elected. Doesn't matter who's in power.Bill C51 is illegal, unconstitutional and must be referred to the Supreme Court for a ruling. If CSIS, RCMP and other law enforcement are smart, they will be the first ones to demand this. Because you can bet that when things go south, massive violations of Constitutional rights ... AGAIN! ... it's law enforcement who will be discredited and lose the confidence and funding of the public, and their jobs ... while Harper will be off rolling in gravy in the private sector. . Edited February 28, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 By which time Harper will be gone. Convenient for him. No, we are not waiting 5 years while massive violations of human rights occur. Nobody's "terrified". Just determined. And we are not waiting 5 years to correct illegal, unconstitutional legislation. Harper must refer Bill C51 to the Supreme Court now for a ruling. I see. Canadians' Constitutional rights cannot be upheld because it's too much work. Good argument. not. :/ Whatever we're paying you to come here as Harper's propaganda puppet, it's too much. Doesn't matter who's in power. Bill C51 is illegal, unconstitutional and must be referred to the Supreme Court for a ruling. . Jacee, Have you travelled outside of Canada? How old are you? I don't see how all this fear mongering is helpful. Saying something lots of times isnt akin to facts. Pm Harper isn't going to torture protesters. Stop saying this. I dont hear any reputable person saying this. Pm Harper isn't going to randomly arrest everyone protesting. Protest lawfully, get a permit to block the road and you're fine. No need for the alarmist tone. Many posters seem to be losing perspective. If youd like to see scary government travel to south east Asia or Africa. Then you'll see some government worthy of fear. Have a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Overwhelming support because people don't think the measures will affect them. If you want to save lives in Canada, make driving safer e.g. bring in massive numbers of speed cameras on roads, monitor traffic by satellite and in the car, put in automatic alcohol detectors in all vehicles and cut the speed limits by 30% and trucks by 40%. Will any govt. do that? Of course not, because Joe Public will be immediately impacted and won't like it. We don't want to save lives that way. I have to say fair play to the NDP here. Like Howard Dean on Iraq, they are standing up for a point of principle when it is not popular to do so. Edited February 28, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Jacee, Have you travelled outside of Canada? How old are you?Not your business.I don't see how all this fear mongering is helpful. Saying something lots of times isnt akin to facts.Truth hurts?Pm Harper isn't going to torture protesters. Stop saying this. I dont hear any reputable person saying this.He has his CIASIS thugs to do it for him.Do they wear badge numbers? Pm Harper isn't going to randomly arrest everyone protesting.He already did have over a thousand people arrested for protesting peacefully, looking for a few property vandals. The largest violation of human rights in Canadian history. Try to keep up. Protest lawfully, get a permit to block the road and you're fine. No need for the alarmist tone.There is no such thing as "lawful" civil DISobedience.Canadians have the right to protest our governments. We don't ask their permission. Many posters seem to be losing perspective. If youd like to see scary government travel to south east Asia or Africa. Then you'll see some government worthy of fear.Ah ... So we should just let ours deteriorate to that point before we get concerned?Canadian mining companies in many of those countries work in cahoots with irresponsible governments to keep the people living in fear, bribing public officials to allow them to plunder natural resources, displace people, and destroy livelihoods and ecosystems and cause famine and civil wars. Canadian mining companies overseas have the worst human rights record in the world, supporting "scary governments" for their own financial gain. CIDA (our money) helps them. . Edited March 1, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I'd put a Sunset Clause as a higher priority than changes to oversight. I'm hopeful the government will provide a 5 year one. That would mean if there were any abuses - as the critics are terrified of - there would be ample ammunition to repeal or modify the legislation. Oversight is a complex undertaking that has worked reasonably well for more than a decade. Even if we had reasons to do so, it would take a lot of time and effort to evaluate and design a new oversight mechanism. It's almost a moot point because the critics on this forum give absolutely no chance to Harper being re-elected. You're kidding? I think he could well be on his way to winning the biggest conservative majority in the history of the Commonwealth, especially if there's a real galvanizing event to terrify Canadians with. I'm loath to admit it but I'm starting to believe folks like you who've noted that many Canadians can barely rub two brain cells together come election time. Edited February 28, 2015 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socialist Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 You know this bill is dangerous when even Conrad Black is against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Jacee, Have you travelled outside of Canada? How old are you? I don't see how all this fear mongering is helpful. Saying something lots of times isnt akin to facts. Pm Harper isn't going to torture protesters. Stop saying this. I dont hear any reputable person saying this. Pm Harper isn't going to randomly arrest everyone protesting. Protest lawfully, get a permit to block the road and you're fine. No need for the alarmist tone. Many posters seem to be losing perspective. If youd like to see scary government travel to south east Asia or Africa. Then you'll see some government worthy of fear. Have a good one. Thats exactly the point, we dont want a government we should fear here. Once again, thankfully we have the supreme court to protect our rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonPureLeaf Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Thats exactly the point, we dont want a government we should fear here. Once again, thankfully we have the supreme court to protect our rights.the type of person who is never going to vote for the conservative party is almost always going to be scared of any conservative government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 This entire bill is an alarmist, the sky is falling reactionary bill. What rights are being eliminated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 We already had those laws. This just allows Harper to read your emails and gain votes in PQ. And I lost my taste for pablum many years ago. Why would you think anyone would have any interest in reading your emails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 There we go again with that silly old platitude about nothing to hide. That has long ago bee dismissed as laughable, so move on,maybe. Well, the fact YOU dismissed it, doesn't mean there isn't a strong point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 All protest is illegal, if you include municipal bylaws, and Bill C51 does. You keep trying to make this woefully stupid point, yet haven't got anything whatever to back it up. If I write a letter to Harper protesting his tax policy I'm breaking the law? If I go up on parliament hill with a sign protesting against seal hunting I'm a lawbreaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) How do you know you are not breaking any laws as you go about your day? I bet we all violate a handful of them every day. I regularly exceed the speed limit... Edited March 1, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well the bill says only they cant kill them or sexually assault them. Nothing about water boarding. It says they can't violate the Charter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's a pretty good indicator of intent that there are no safeguards. What, none? Not even your precious Charter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Only "lawful" protest exempts protesters from the Anti-terror Act. Blocking a road is not "lawful". It is if you arrange it in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 the type of person who is never going to vote for the conservative party is almost always going to be scared of any conservative government. Thats quite an assumption. As with many assumptions its wrong. Not approving of a political partys policies does not imply fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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