Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[Rue]

Ghost Hacked you are out of line with me. No I do not have the ease to call anyone anything. Unlike you I do not come on this board and take pot shots at people in a passive aggressive manner because I am mad at them for having disagreed with me in the past as it appears you are now doing with me to make this a discussion about your perceived slight. This is not about you and your perceived slight.

Also your petulance is duly noted when you insist on responding to me now twice about a perceived past slight and then say you are going to ignore me. Yah I get the shtick. You don't read what I say. Crap. You do otherwise you wouldn't keep responding. The I don't read what you say response yah I get it ghost, you expect me to read your personal attacks, but you won't read what I have to say in response, but then miraculously without reading what I say respond again. Lol. Got it. Grow up with that shtick where you call me names and clog your ears with your fingers so you can't hear me. Grow up. Have the sincerity to admit you read back what I say and respond again. Bloody lame. Lol don't respond then to this then. Here now I will assume you are no longer reading and will switch my focus buh bye now.

I have taken great care and time to point out each and every time Mayer has stated something unsourced, unfounded, false and hateful about Jews and explain why I find these comments hateful. How about Ghost on this thread? What have you done other to remain silent about what he says when its false but apologize for him now.

Drive by comment to call him an anti-Semite? Right. Unlike Ghost I take a great deal of time to make sure its not a drive by comment but sourced and explained in detail.

Ghost won't take the actual explanations I have given and debate them and prove them wrong....what he will do is use this thread to bring up a past perceived slight. he won't defend Mayer's comments-he does defend what this man says on the board by explaining why- what he will do is to focus on me his your feelings of being hurt by me.

Boo hoo. Go on which one of you will defend what Mayer says other than to take pot shots at me for challenging what he says.

Please, provide the references and sources to back up what he has said. I haven't seen Big Guy do it. I haven't seen Eye do it. I haven't seem Ghost do it. Please point out why he's right and well informed as Big Guy said.

Big Guy said he was well informed which is interesting since Mayer's never provided one source for what he's said to then be able to tell how well informed it is....but hey who cares-as long as its anti Jewish and we agree with that sentiment, why source it-why be able to back it up-I mean it all comes down to just one thing-me-and how mean I am. Boo hoo.

Ghost made the blanket statement Mayer understands the difference between hating Zionism and Jews, but he has not backed it up. He simply states his subjective opinion, takes another shot at me personally without addressing the issue, then says he's got his fingers in his ears if I respond further.

Lol I got it. Big Bad Rue. He's so mean.

Please then since Mayer can't do it, how about one of you other Mayer supporters explain to me about the etiology of the word Jew and back up what he said and how jewellery is derived from Jew. Back up what he says. Go on prove to me he did not fabricate it.

Berating Mayer-really. Berating him? Why because I challenge and expose what he says and explain why its hateful and fabricated?

Which one of you, Ghost, Eye, Big Guy, Mr. Jones, Ghost, On Guard want to play boo hoo with me- can any of you no defend of what he says or you going to fall back on calling me a boo hoo berater.

Berate, why because I challenge hate and demand you back up what you say with proof? That's berating?

I do not have to sit here while someone says hateful, false things about Jews pretexting them with the word Zionist.

If any of you or Mayer wants to use this board to attack Jews, ridicule us, fabricate false information about us and hate us because we are Zionists , I will challenge it, expose it, and call it what it is vile hatreful and ignorant words posed as political debate.

Boo hoo. Sniff. I won't let you insult me. Boo hoo. Its not fair, the Jew talks back. He's mean. Ah the good old days when you told a Jew his place and he did not talk back. NEVER AGAIN.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

Kactus in response to you responses to Argus, I would like to debate one thing you said.

You claim since the thread is about Israel discussion should not be made in comparison to what other countries do.

This notion you have that you can hold Israel to a standard no other country will be held by is not credible precisely because its discriminatory.

Its a notion that necessarily holds that one can criticize Israel in isolation with no consideration to the cause and effect of its behavior and how it may be caused by countries or terrorists or people you deliberately choose to ignore.

Buy ignoring this cause and effect necessarily your analysis is rendered arbitrary, partisan, bias and simply subjective opinion that only will criticize on side of a conflict ignoring the causal link of behavior between the conflicted parties.

It is illogical to ignore the cause and effect and connection between conflicted parties if one wants to resolve that conflict. What you want is to simply morally judge one side and ignore the other's actions.

Israel does not simply wake up each morning and for no reason hate Palestinians and commit war crimes. There is cause and effect to what the IDF has to do and because and when you state you are not willing to discuss the cause and effect of why the IDF has done what its done, your criticism is rendered defective and just another one sided attack on Israel blaming all its citizens for specific actions the IDF may have engaged in.

You are contending that you should be able to judge all of Israel for specific IDF actions without looking at the causes of those specific actions. That is bigoted, illogical and simply incites hatred for one side of the conflict. It doesn't contribute to a peaceful solution, it simply sides with one side of the conflict.

I would argue when you engage in this isolated, one sided moral judgment of Israel for specific conduct of its IDF in specific cases, you vilify and demonize all Israelis for the actions of the IDF in those specific instances.

I contend your refusal to look at cause and effect behind these actions ignores what the Arab League and Muslim terrorists have done to co contribute to the conflict equation and whose actions have fueled the conflict, trigged the IDF responses and have harmed both Israelis and Palestinians.

That agenda to come on this forum and only blame Israel and ignore the other side of the equation is played out every day on this and other threads by the same anti Israelis on this board. It then attracts anti semites who can't resist using the word Israel or Zionism to then expand the topic not just to discuss whether the IDF acts excessively in specific cases, but to question the right of Jews to have a state and express ourselves as a nationality.

This thread has never raised one specific action of the IDF that was found to be a war crime, not one.

It has however used the pretense of Israel committing war crimes to discuss everything but that issue. It has instead been used to spread idiotic fabricated statements denying and trivializing the holocaust, equating Jews to Nazis ans making out and out false unsourced false representations as to to the etiology of the word Jew and jewellery and serve as a platform to , accuse Jews and Israelis of being liars, war criminals and exploiters of the holocaust.

Now when I disagree with you Kactus understand its not personal however if you do go the next step and start telling me what the origins of my name are or what my religious believes are or smeer me with negative false stereotypes, I of course would take it personally.

However you have never done that with me so I have never had to respond that way.

You stick to criticizing Israeli policies with me and have not insulted or become personal with me for being a Jew.

So unlike the others who have hijacked this thread, if you did actually want to discuss a specific instance of excessive IDF force, I would be glad to respond to any specific example of IDF excessive force you believe is a war crime and listen to your statement.

I myself have openly criticized the use of sulphur weapons by the IDF, Syria, Russia, Egypt, Turkey, the US Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, etc. I believe sulphur weapons to me are a crime because they burn through the skin of civilians-they are horrendous. I openly have stated I challenge the IDF as I do any armed forces including Canada for making and selling and using sulphur weapons.

You and I have already discussed whetherthe IDF used excessive force in the last conflict with Hamas. I stated any conventional army as well as the IDF forced to fight door to door against terrorists hiding in civilian apartments, homes, hospitals, schools, UN buildings, ambulances, propping themselves behind civilians will induce responses that will cause innocent civilians to get caught in the middle and yes the responses will appear or in fact be excessive-however to be able to know what one must know all the facts-the actual chain of events leading up to, during and after the use of force being questioned.

Of course you can sit in an arm chair in Canada far removed from the actual conflict and think you understand what it takes to go door to door fighting terrorists and believe its easy not to hurt civilians.

People do it daily and not just with the IDF but with police everywhere.

All I can say is I have been there and seen and experienced things you have not and it changes one's perspective on what others think is real. What I saw and experienced can't be understood by reading selective web sites with subjective opinions or wikepedia which is what is expressed on this forum.

No I am not you. I have a different perspective because I was the target of a conflict and hatred and I saw things that can happen in the heat of the moment to make good people make horrible mistakes.

Its easy, too easy to sit and pass moral judgments and then use those judgments to justify hating Israelis and Jews which is what some people are doing on this thread.

Please consider this. Have you seen any specific instance raised on this board concerning excessive force by the IDF? Of course not. The people you do see coming on this board are here to simply make general rhetorical statements that they don't think Jews should exist in a state, are evil, etc.

The thread and its contents are loud and clear.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rue

[Big Guy]

Thank you to Scott Mayer, GostHacked and kactus. You have pointed out was has to be pointed out and have not succumbed to warnings of being labelled as anti-Semite, Jew hater, terrorist lover and all that other silliness. That action takes courage of conviction and allows other posters to compare your rational criticism of a flawed Israeli regime with the ravings of Zionists.

Well done.

[GostHacked]

Thank you to Scott Mayer, GostHacked and kactus. You have pointed out was has to be pointed out and have not succumbed to warnings of being labelled as anti-Semite, Jew hater, terrorist lover and all that other silliness. That action takes courage of conviction and allows other posters to compare your rational criticism of a flawed Israeli regime with the ravings of Zionists.

Well done.

No thanks necessary. And we get a lot of extrapolation from a couple simple lines fleshed out to almost a page of responses and hyperbole and speculation and transgressions against the other poster. Saying things one never said or even hinted at. This problem has existed for longer than you have been here on MLW. So I don't expect the problem to go away any time soon.

I still find it perplexing to call someone an anti-semite for understanding there is a difference between a Zionist a Jew and an Israeli.

[Argus]

I find it quite strange that everytime the cruelties of israelis is mentioned here there is a tendency to draw a compaison with other countries.

Two reasons.

First, it points out that Israeli actions are really bafflingly unremarkable given the neighbourhood they live in, and draws the mind to wonder why certain people constantly howl about them while ignoring others who behave worse. What possible motivation could these people have, hmm?

Second, to put Israeli behaviour into context. A lot of the haters here try to compare Israeli behaviour towards that of other western countries, blithely ignoring that the others are at peace and have been for decades. But if you compare their behaviour to the behaviour of western countries at war, they actually come out somewhat further ahead than we do. I mean, compare Israeli air attacks in any of their wars to the Dresden, Coventry, or Rotterdam bombings, or Hiroshima.

[Argus]

Try to remember, some of us are trying to understand how approximately 1500 people, non combatants, of which nearly 500 of whom where children, died as a direct result of IDF aggression. And to stress, I am talking about PEOPLE.

As a direct result of IDF "aggression"? You mean the IDF targeting Hamas missile sites?

Damn Jews! Who do they think they are anyway!

[Argus]

Thank you to Scott Mayer, GostHacked and kactus. You have pointed out was has to be pointed out and have not succumbed to warnings of being labelled as anti-Semite, Jew hater, terrorist lover and all that other silliness. That action takes courage of conviction and allows other posters to compare your rational criticism of a flawed Israeli regime with the ravings of Zionists.

Well done.

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous

Making a show of being morally superior to other people.

synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pious, pietistic, churchy, moralizing, preachy, smug, superior, priggish, hypocritical, insincere; informalgoody-goody

"no one wants to hear your sanctimonious hot air"

Edited February 29, 2016 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

Folks like myself don't view the criticism of Israel as particularly antisemitic. It is the support of the Palestinian Cause that raises the ol' eyebrow. Started by a real Nazi (Haj Amin al-Husseini) and forwarded by his terrorist nephew, Yassir Arafat (al-Husseini). And Holocaust revisionist, Abbas...let's not forget.

Hamas...well...they goosestep and give the ol' salute like their SS models.

The "Palestinians", as well as the Egyptians and Syrians, all employ(ed) Nazis fleeing the noose in their various governments/organizations. ODESSA file...not just a novel.

Someone who is ignorant of this particular infamous background might be forgiven. But once the cat is out of the bag...I'm not willing to accept excuses re: support for Palestine.

Edited February 29, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[Scott Mayers]

And yet, you can fly into Jerusalem, even as Christian or Buddhist or Muslim, wearing a symbol of your religion, and visiting not only your holy places, but Jewish holy places, as well.

If a non-Muslim is found near Mecca they are arrested. Non Muslims are not permitted there. Nor is anyone permitted to display any non-Muslim symbol, nor to open any place of worship that is not dedicated to Islam in the entire country.

And dar al-Islam is the Muslim version of Zionism nobody seems to ever speak about, but which sets aside the entire middle east as Muslim lands, holy to their faith, which must always be ruled by Muslims.

The topic is "Israel's war crimes in Gaza" and to what I'm focused on here. This does NOT diminish any Nationalistic extremists elsewhere either. But the REALITY is that the Israeli side is defaulted to being relatively 'innocent' here AND by most, politically, it is deemed to be a crime, if not real, at least virtual, to speak against Israel. As such, those like yourself presume we have to default to assume the Muslim side as PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL and the Israelis as PURE UNADULTERATED ANGELS who are 'victims' unresponsible for their own actions.

You insult the Muslims as if they are somehow inferior intrinsically which disables them from succeeding, and so blame them for their own extremes. Yet inversely, you think it is alright to ignore the fact that economics and power reside with the Israelis, regardless of any of their own intrinsic virtues distinct from the extremes of the Muslims. The ban of a Jew in Mecca is only a reactive response of the aggression derived from the Jews initially. The hatred is reflective hatred. If you were sincere and correct, the Israelis would not have had a need to build walls, impose 'settlements' by stealing controversial lands by brute force.

Your arrogant thinking is as follows: A very strong man manning costly and powerful guns is walking down a busy city street. As he walks, he focuses precisely on where he wants to go and doesn't bother to respect the same standards as others on the same streets. For instance, if you have a group of people and are walking in the opposite direction, this man would keep walking as if no crowd were in front of him and step on them should anyone NOT move out of the way. The crowd requires being extra cautious around him for this behavior and so someone challenges him by reflecting the same behavior as an 'equal'. But upon trying, this strong man with guns steps on the other then blames him for NOT moving out of the way.

To you, you'd blame the crowd for their own weakness and the man who challenged this giant as simply being 'stupid'. Yet, who is the one behaving with unfairness here? If you think ones' strength alone justifies him to behave, then you perhaps understand those like Hitler who would surely agree: 'Weed out the weaklings. Those with the POWER to command their WILL is all that matters. The weak are terrorizing the strong for their own incompetence to chose to BE strong.'

[Scott Mayers]

Thank you to Scott Mayer, GostHacked and kactus. You have pointed out was has to be pointed out and have not succumbed to warnings of being labelled as anti-Semite, Jew hater, terrorist lover and all that other silliness. That action takes courage of conviction and allows other posters to compare your rational criticism of a flawed Israeli regime with the ravings of Zionists.

Well done.

I always believe in giving others charity to reason and yet find it frustrating when you can't get the same respect in return no matter how well-intentioned you try to appeal. It seems to only make some MORE disrespectful of you for trying. Yet, if I (we) gave up, THEY win.

But thank you too.

[Scott Mayers]

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous

Making a show of being morally superior to other people.

synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pious, pietistic, churchy, moralizing, preachy, smug, superior, priggish, hypocritical, insincere; informalgoody-goody

"no one wants to hear your sanctimonious hot air"

Thanks. But I try with sincerity NOT to give off bad emotional vibes. But it is unavoidable, I've discovered, regardless. I'd either have to sit back and let those like yourself speak with your own 'superior' wisdom and let you win by default. I'm competent with my intents and capacity to argue. While it may offend you that my confidence is of some delusional arrogance, so be it. But thanks for responding to my "sanctimonious hot air" If you heard me, does that now make you "no one"? .....

[Scott Mayers]

Rue,

I'm sorry you believe me to be Anti-Semitic. I don't believe you can easily step out of your emotional impulse to keep thinking of yourself as a PEOPLE, uniquely distinct from others. To me, I belong to the class ALL PEOPLE and prefer to see you as my equal. Do you not think that your own belief that you ARE a distinct class and that this is somehow intrinsic to everyone to be such, is what makes you feel certain I MUST also believe in this regardless of my continued denial of this?

I have red hair and am mostly of Scandinavian decent. I likely also have Semitic genes in me too. I'm certain that at least we all are related back far enough that we'd have more genetic factors in common than not. So you have no need to perceive me (or others) as an enemy here.

[bush_cheney2004]

The topic is "Israel's war crimes in Gaza" and to what I'm focused on here.

The topic title is misleading as Israel has not been charged or convicted of any "war crimes" in Gaza. "War crimes" have been alleged.

Speaking of the topic as if it is fact only reveals an underlying agenda.

[Scott Mayers]

The topic title is misleading as Israel has not been charged or convicted of any "war crimes" in Gaza. "War crimes" have been alleged.

Speaking of the topic as if it is fact only reveals an underlying agenda.

So if it is not 'official' [PC], we are not allowed to speak until the authorities deem us eligible to? He could have titled it "war love", instead. Would that have been most acceptable and sincere to the OP? Should a "terrorist" agree to use the term "terrorist" to describe themselves when speaking to others because this is how they are 'officially' defined by their listeners? Would that help their cause? The subject involves Israel and Gaza or, generally, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and their related causes as we understand them.

[bush_cheney2004]

So if it is not 'official' [PC], we are not allowed to speak until the authorities deem us eligible to? He could have titled it "war love", instead.

We "speak" all we want, and this is not the first thread on the topic, but it is interesting that such a presumption is made without any accountability or moderator intervention.

The subject involves Israel and Gaza or, generally, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and their related causes as we understand them.

No, the topic is very specific, and should invite moderator action for "thread drift", but as usual it doesn't when Israel and "Zionism" are involved.

If I started a different thread about "Canada's war crimes", it would be held to a much higher standard.

[Rue]

Rue,

I'm sorry you believe me to be Anti-Semitic. I don't believe you can easily step out of your emotional impulse to keep thinking of yourself as a PEOPLE, uniquely distinct from others. To me, I belong to the class ALL PEOPLE and prefer to see you as my equal. Do you not think that your own belief that you ARE a distinct class and that this is somehow intrinsic to everyone to be such, is what makes you feel certain I MUST also believe in this regardless of my continued denial of this?

I have red hair and am mostly of Scandinavian decent. I likely also have Semitic genes in me too. I'm certain that at least we all are related back far enough that we'd have more genetic factors in common than not. So you have no need to perceive me (or others) as an enemy here.

I want Ghost to read the above and in particular the following words from the above:

"I don't believe you can easily step out of your emotional impulse to keep thinking of yourself as a PEOPLE, uniquely distinct from others."

Now Ghost read your words:in post 754:

"I still find it perplexing to call someone an anti-semite for understanding there is a difference between a Zionist a Jew and an Israeli."

His words clearly state the following:

1-I am not a Jew and can not call myself a Jew

2-I can not refer to Jew as a collective nationality or even a collective group or as a people

3-Jews are not a people and therefore I am not a person.

You Ghost are full of it. You defend a man who denies my identity and presumes to tell me who I am and how i can refer to myself. This man is a blatant bigot-a man so emersed in his role of putting Jews in their place he thinks if he poses as "being sorry" the very message he imparts does not negate and deny who I am. His comments have bothing to do with Israel, Israelis and everything to do with Jews and how he dictates how we can define ourselves and you come on this board and applaud it.

His words fly in the face of what you said and show your attempt to repackage what he said is a bloody joke.

[On Guard for Thee]

We "speak" all we want, and this is not the first thread on the topic, but it is interesting that such a presumption is made without any accountability or moderator intervention.

No, the topic is very specific, and should invite moderator action for "thread drift", but as usual it doesn't when Israel and "Zionism" are involved.

If I started a different thread about "Canada's war crimes", it would be held to a much higher standard.

Then why don't you go do that, or are you afraid of the influx of responses of US war crimes that would flood in?

[Rue]

Rue,

I'm sorry you believe me to be Anti-Semitic. I don't believe you can easily step out of your emotional impulse to keep thinking of yourself as a PEOPLE, uniquely distinct from others. To me, I belong to the class ALL PEOPLE and prefer to see you as my equal. Do you not think that your own belief that you ARE a distinct class and that this is somehow intrinsic to everyone to be such, is what makes you feel certain I MUST also believe in this regardless of my continued denial of this?

I have red hair and am mostly of Scandinavian decent. I likely also have Semitic genes in me too. I'm certain that at least we all are related back far enough that we'd have more genetic factors in common than not. So you have no need to perceive me (or others) as an enemy here.

Your not sorry at all. Your post in fact shows you are quite intent and happy in continuing to post your hatred towards Jews.

In your latest response to me you presume to tell me Jews are not a people and therefore I am not a Jew. You come on this board not to discuss Israel but to say to me and all Jews we are not a people. You come on this board to negate my right to exist as a Jew.

In so doing, you couldn't have summarized any better the bigotry you hold towards Jews and that it is deliberate, repetitive, hateful and intentional.

You also show that you don't differentiate Jews from Israelis as Ghost said, because you don't recognize us at all.

In so doing you made a mockery of his attempt to rationalize your bigotry and prove just how wrong he was. Lo.

Next and I say this as clear as I can-your assumption that because we Jews define ourselves as a people we necessarily define ourselves as superior to others is false.

The fact you continue to repeat this falsehood over and over does not change the fact that it is false.

You have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence from a Zionist Jew that defines us superior to non Jews. There's a simple reason why. You fabricated ithis false description of Zionism and you repeat it over and over again presuming to tell me that because I define myself as a collective soul I think non Jewish souls are inferior.

You not only lie about Zionism knowing you can't find one document from a Zionist defining we Jews as superior, but now you presume to tell me how i can define myself.

You are not sorry. You deiiberately refuse to acknowledge me and my people and to repeat lies over and over about my people's identity.

Its what you do- fabricate false stereotypes of who we Jews think we are are and therefore should not be.

You single my people out as the only people in the world you patronize and deny we have a collective soul. That Sir makes you a bigot and the worst kind an intentional one who says sorry as his words in the very next breath spew hatred and contempt for Jews being a people.

Nothing like a bigot who says sorry before he spews his venom.

One thing you need to get clear Mayer. I am not your equal and it has nothing to do with me being a Jew- it has to do with the fact that I would never as you do, come on a board and fabricate out and out falsehoods about another people and then tell them they do not exist.

Unlike you I treat people as I want them to treat me and you can't grasp that most basic of points-if anyone should feel sorry it would be me for you but I don't have feelings towards you on this topic. I probably have a contempt but not sufficient enough to generate any kind of feeling for you.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

Then why don't you go do that, or are you afraid of the influx of responses of US war crimes that would flood in?

You came on to justify this thread and say its fine, then repeat it. Bush did not come on this thread to negate anyone's identity you did. You want to piss on Americans go start a thread and get off this one unless of course you want to join in with the anti semites and presume to tell me as a Jew that I am not a people because that is what this thread is about.

Lol go start a thread and tell Americans they are not American and have no right to refer to themselves as Americans.

See how far that goes.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Rue

[On Guard for Thee]

Finish what you started. Go start another thread pissing on the US and calling them war criminals, then come on the thread and tell Americans as Mayer does with Jews, they are not a people, and they have no right to call themselves Americans. Knock yourself out. Lecture Bush. Presume to tell him who he is, what he believes in and bad mouth him for being American. Knock yourself out.

Finish what you started. You came on to justify this thread and say its fine, then repeat it. Bush did not come on this thread to negate anyone's identity you did. You want to piss on Americans go start a thread and get off this one unless of course you want to presume to tell me as a Jew that I am not a people and join in with the other anti semites on this board.

Got news for you, the US you piss on and have a problem with, I embrace particularly because its people when no one else did, recognized Jews as people. The legacy of Elenor Roosevelt is known to every Jew on this planet. So is what she got Truman to see and so many other Americans to see at a time when people didn't not give a damn who we were.

The US in spite of many differences stood by Israel and prevented its extermination at the hands of the Soviets. We do not forget. We do not gorget Eisenhower's filming of the camps and resolving the Suez Canal crisis. We do not forget Truman, Kennedy, Luther King, LBJ. Ford, Reagan, Bush Jr. or Sr., Clinton. We know what they did. We know who John McCain is-we know which American gentiles defended us. We do not forget them. So you piss on the US because I will be there to throw your hate back at you for the US.

Except I didn't start it, but I'm glad you remembered to call up Bush Jr. He'd certainly be one name that would show up on such a thread.

[GostHacked]

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous

Making a show of being morally superior to other people.

synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pious, pietistic, churchy, moralizing, preachy, smug, superior, priggish, hypocritical, insincere; informalgoody-goody

"no one wants to hear your sanctimonious hot air"

Ever read Rue's posts?? Drips of everything you speak of.

[GostHacked]

I want Ghost to read the above and in particular the following words from the above:

"I don't believe you can easily step out of your emotional impulse to keep thinking of yourself as a PEOPLE, uniquely distinct from others."

Now Ghost read your words:in post 754:

"I still find it perplexing to call someone an anti-semite for understanding there is a difference between a Zionist a Jew and an Israeli."

His words clearly state the following:

1-I am not a Jew and can not call myself a Jew

2-I can not refer to Jew as a collective nationality or even a collective group or as a people

3-Jews are not a people and therefore I am not a person.

You Ghost are full of it. You defend a man who denies my identity and presumes to tell me who I am and how i can refer to myself. This man is a blatant bigot-a man so emersed in his role of putting Jews in their place he thinks if he poses as "being sorry" the very message he imparts does not negate and deny who I am. His comments have bothing to do with Israel, Israelis and everything to do with Jews and how he dictates how we can define ourselves and you come on this board and applaud it.

His words fly in the face of what you said and show your attempt to repackage what he said is a bloody joke.

I don't see direct quotes of what he said, so at this time you allege he made those statements. I thought you were more thorough than that.

I am full of something that's for sure.

[Scott Mayers]

Wow Rue,

Did you mean to spell "Rue" as "Rude"? At least I have the respect to not PURPOSELY misspell ones name!

You are clearly too deluded on your interpretation of me and incapable of treating people's words with the charity they deserve. I hadn't read what you'd mentioned of Ghost's reply as you state and definitely know this is unlikely his own interpretation as you seem to be doing this with me too.

I have zero concern to care what roots people have as I judge each person independently and NOT based on any of their preferred associations. It is you who think you speak for all of some group of people, called "Jew" here, as if this group is some differentiated species apart from all others. In this light, it makes you perceive me or others as an OPPOSING Nation or set of Nations. This is where you have blinders on. I, to you, am "Goyim" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goy] and whether you interpret everyone as necessarily belonging to some "Nation", I severely oppose the whole concept as I believe each and every person is unique, essential, important, and of the same species. As to volition, if you also believe you OWN some culture based on your ancestry, it is such extreme "pride" you have that is preventing you from not recognizing your own bias.

I don't believe in ANY Nationalism as I've repeatedly said to you. I don't own 'red-headedness', 'maleness', my Old World ancestral groups (they are from various places, not some single cult), or any non-voluntary association. I have a right to CHOOSE my associations based on my environmental preferences and do so. But for those like yourself, you forcefully DEFINE everyone as necessarily belonging to some 'God-given' association based on some genetic factor ('genetic' here implies not simply one's biological genetics, but to one's inherent privileges to OWN specific rights merely for being born into it.)

Try thinking of the recent Elephant stampedes in India. These DO represent two distinct species and so justifies why Elephants are acting 'terroristic' with respect to innocent humans. You are ACTING as if you ARE a species with distinction. I like Elephants even while recognizing our distinction. But this is still very REAL because we DO have actual genetic distinctions between us and Elephants. What you are doing when you assert a right to define your "NATIONALITY" is to act as if you are a REAL different species. And while you may possibly 'respect' Goyim with compassion, this still treats the rest of us as essential aliens or different species with inappropriate behavior. So it is you who is begging me to act in a way to respect a distinction I do NOT agree to with complete disrespect of my own individuality.

Why are you so angry?

[Scott Mayers]

I don't see direct quotes of what he said, so at this time you allege he made those statements. I thought you were more thorough than that.

I am full of something that's for sure.

I think Rue may be just too hyped up at this moment for personal reasons unknown. I didn't interpret your words as he did either.

[Argus]

The topic is "Israel's war crimes in Gaza" and to what I'm focused on here. This does NOT diminish any Nationalistic extremists elsewhere either. But the REALITY is that the Israeli side is defaulted to being relatively 'innocent' here AND by most, politically, it is deemed to be a crime, if not real, at least virtual, to speak against Israel.

Drivel. Lots of people speak against some of the things Israel does, including me. I'm against their west bank settlements, for example. But we question those with a single-minded, zealous focus on Israel's alleged shortcomings when they ignore all the neighbors who behave worse. Why so much determination against Israel instead of say, Syria or Iran?

As such, those like yourself presume we have to default to assume the Muslim side as PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL and the Israelis as PURE UNADULTERATED ANGELS who are 'victims' unresponsible for their own actions.

I think you're getting more than a little overly emotional here. I said it is the Muslim world which is responsible for the endless violence between they and Israel. They initiated it, they perpetuated it, and they refuse to abandon their determination to force the Jews out of dar Al-Islam.

You insult the Muslims as if they are somehow inferior intrinsically which disables them from succeeding, and so blame them for their own extremes.

Again, you're getting very emotional for a guy who says he's just philosophising. I haven't insulted the Muslims. I've simply pointed out their own religious fanaticism, their belief that region is for Muslims only, is what is responsible for the violence between them and the Jewish state, and their own incompetent, corrupt governments are responsible for their lowly living conditions.

Yet inversely, you think it is alright to ignore the fact that economics and power reside with the Israelis, regardless of any of their own intrinsic virtues distinct from the extremes of the Muslims.

Why would a tiny state like Israel hold the power and economics? There are lots of very wealthy Arab/Muslim states, and the population of the surrounding Muslim lands is many times greater than that of Israel.

Of course, they do have those incompetent, corrupt dictatorial governments running their economies into the ground. That might have something to do with things.

The ban of a Jew in Mecca is only a reactive response of the aggression derived from the Jews initially.

What are you talking about? The ban is on ANY other religion, be it Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever. When American servicemen were deployed to Saudi Arabia they were forbidden from wearing crosses lest they offend the sensibilities of the Saudis.

When Osama bin Laden launched his jihad it was, he said, in large measure out of outrage that the holy land, ie, Saudi Arabia, had been defiled and polluted by allowing so many infidels to go there, even temporarily.

If you were sincere and correct, the Israelis would not have had a need to build walls

The Israelis needed to build walls to keep terrorists from blowing themselves up in Israel's markets and restaurants.

impose 'settlements' by stealing controversial lands by brute force.

Maybe if the Arabs would make peace Israel would vacate those settlements.

Your arrogant thinking is as follows: A very strong man manning costly and powerful guns is walking down a busy city street. As he walks, he focuses precisely on where he wants to go and doesn't bother to respect the same standards as others on the same streets.

That's an interesting, but pretty far fetched example. Let me give you one far more accurate. You have a neighbourhood filled with Muslims. Suddenly, a Jewish family moves in down the block. The whole neighbourhood is in an uproar! The men all get together, brandishing clubs and knives and torches and rush over to burn out the Jews! But the Jew has a gun and shoots a few, and the rest run away.

And for seventy odd years, the Muslims have been trying to burn out those damn Jews.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Argus